Why is my color so off on sunset pictures?

[graham_martin2]

I have uploaded 3 images below. The one of the bus, and the sunset scene with

the blue tinge were taken with a Pentax 645 medium format camera using Fuji

Portra ISO 400. The 1st sunset picture was taken on my D200 which got the

exposure right.

 

The fastest shutter on the Pentax is 1/1000. I don't recall the aperture but I

believe it was around f/4. I was using a 75mm f/2.8 lens on the Pentax. The D200

was set at f/5 with a speed of 1/2500.

 

Does anyone have any thoughts on what went wrong?

 

Graham

 

Apparently I can't upload images here. Please click on here to see the pictures

in question.

 

http://www.nikonians.org/dcforum/DCForumID14/15264.html<div></div>

[graham_martin2]

I see that I can upload an image, but perhaps it is one at a time. Let me see if I can add another image.<div></div>

[graham_martin2]

Here is the 3rd image taken with my Nikon D200. Can anyone help me understand why the color is OK with the bus, but so blue with the sunset?<div></div>

[ronald_moravec1]

Color is off on the bus AND the sunset.

 

You are running the scanner on automatic and the controls are trying to nullify a dominant color.

 

The red bus is causing the scanner to compensate with increased cyan.

 

The sunset is probably yellow and the scanner is trying to make it blue with compensation.

 

Best thing to do is take a neg on the same film type that has a full range of tones, and manually balance it. Save those settings and use them on all negs of that type film.

 

Put the red bus into photoshop and decrease the cyan or increase the red. The pic will perk right up.

 

The sunset is too far gone. Rescan with manual color balance.

[allan_f.]

Graham,

 

If your photos were taken with Kodak Portra color negative film, how did you get the digital images? If you scanned a commercial lab print, the colors in the print are determined when the negative was printed. Automatic color correction, or incorrect manual color correction, can take a scene like a sunset which has strong colors and try to make them more "neutral". This can give you really strange colors in the final print that look very little like the original image.

 

If you scanned an original negative, the scanner software has to reverse the colors (negative to positive image) and remove any masking color bult into the film. Again, automatic color correction can give you bad results when the original image had very strong colors.

 

Shooting slide film instead of print film has advantages and disadvantages when scanning. You get to see the real colors in the developed film which is an advantage when matching the colors of the scan to the colors of the film. One disadvantage is that slide film normally has higher contrast and density which makes it harder to get good shadow detail in the scan.

 

Allan

[graham_martin2]

I scanned from negatives. I am using a Canon CanoScan8400F. The software that came with it seems very basic. My choices are Auto, film, or platen. If I try to scan as "film" then, of course, the result is simply the scanned negative. I don't have any ability to save settings or create custom ones. Do I need to get an upgraded scanner?

 

I am going to have some of the negatives printed so that I can get a real idea of what the true pictures look like. Once I have used up my 4 rolls of film, I will be switching to slides. For one thing, they are a lot easier to scan than film which keeps curling up.

[Ed_Ingold]

You need to turn off or adjust any automatic color adjustments. As Ronald correctly points out, the scanner is trying to remove the reds you would prefer to keep. Better software would help - Silverfast AI is the best, if available for the Canon.

 

Mounted slides curl too (always), and you can't do a durn' thing about it. Make or buy a glass holder for unmounted film, negative or reversal. Scan with the emulsion side down and anti-Newton Ring glass on the top. You need a thin spacer as a mask - black construction paper will work.

[wes_baker1]

You might also try Vuescan. It's a very powerful scanner program, with oodles of manual options. You buy it once, and can use it for all kinds of different scanners forever. Sort of a poor man's Silverfast; drastically less expensive. Just do a Google search on it. I think Ed Hamrick is the guy that writes it.

[graham_martin2]

My scanner does have slide and negative holders which help a bit. How do you tell which is the emulsion side, and what is a Newton Ring? I have rescanned a couple of the negatives using ArcSoft which seemed to be better. I had more control over the process, and then I did some post processing. The bus came out a little better although now the asphalt has a greenish tinge to it.<div></div>

[graham_martin2]

And here is the bus re-scanned<div></div>

[graham_martin2]

The horse farm and golf course came out real nice in terms of colors.<div></div>

[graham_martin2]

Horse farm<div></div>

[graham_martin2]

I downloaded the free trial of VueScan. It is very easy and quick. I think the pixel count must be lower than using ArcSoft. However for a quick and dirty look it looks like it could be helpful. Thanks Wes for the tip.<div></div>

[ronald_moravec1]

The overall colors are more average in the horse farm and other scene with green grass and blue sky, and that is what the scanner is programed to work with. you see those scans come out "on color", but have too much contrast.

 

You need better software and probably a better scanner to compete with the Nikon digital camera. I have a lot of 35mm film equipment, so I have a few scanners, but if I were you, I would go digital. If you don`t want to, then a better scanner/software is in order. Epson V700 should get you decent results to 11x14 from 645.

 

In this day and age, sell the 645 and use the proceeds to get more Nikon digital camera/lenses. Maybe Pentax will have a digi back soon.

[wes_baker1]

You should be able to set your scanner to whatever resolution you want with Vuescan. One feature that I find very useful is the ability to do multi-pass scans. It sort of averages out a handful of duplicated scans. Sometimes, that can really knock back the noise, depending on the scanner you're using, and the type of film.

 

The best thing about Vuescan though is that you can turn off all the auto color and exposure options, which are annoyingly hard wired in the software supplied by some scanner brands.

[graham_martin2]

Thanks Wes, I can see it is a trial and error thing especially since this was the first roll of film I have put through this camera. In response to Ron's comments about selling the Pentax and getting more Nikon gear and going totally digital, all I can say is that I already have 3 Nikon DSLRs and some very good glass, plus I have 2 film SLRs.

 

My whole reason in buying the Pentax was to explore other camera formats. Since i can't afford a digital MF, this was my other choice (plus I really like film and slides). I was surprised to have someone in this forum suggest that I get rid of my medium format gear.

[ronald_moravec1]

I only suggested it because it now involves even further investment with money I guessed you may not have considering the low performance scanner you are using.

 

If you can afford it, by all means continue with med format.

[graham_martin2]

Thanks, Ron, for the clarification. :) I will check out that Epson V7000 you mentioned. Photography is going to be my new pre-occupation when I retire in 3 years, and so I am buying new equipment now before my income takes that hit after they put me out to pasture.

[bob_h]

Try some Ektachrome 100GX slide film. It will help you to learn to scan starting with the real colors on the slides. Scanning medium format film can be expensive depending upon which scanner and software that you use.

The Pentax 645 is capable of producing very fine images. There is a bit of a learning curve for scanning them. A good film scanner seems to produce better results than the flatbed scanners. Don't give up. Just keep learning.

[graham_martin2]

Thanks Bob. I have 4 rolls of film to go through that I got when I bought the camera. I figure these will be good learnings tools. After that I plan on using slide film.

[ranong]

KEEP YOUR PENTAX. i love my medium format gear. shoot some slide film. i use sams club for pocessing. runs about 4.88$ for slides. once you see the results you wil be hooked. practice your metering and bracket till you get a good method.

 

as for the scanning. learn to scan yourself ( i can not) or send out the scans to a pro and pay for it. it gets abit expensive but just be selective. you can usually get low res scans for cheaper. they should be a btter gague for you till you get your scanning worked out. if you plan to print then your 645 is the way to go. good luck with your scanning problems....i know how you feel.

 

eddie

[allan_f.]

Graham,

 

I use an Epson 4990 flatbed scanner and don't have any experience with your Canon. The Epson was bought for 4x5 inch sheet film but also works reasonably well with 6x6 cm (2 1/4" square) roll film. None of the consumer grade flatbed scanners are capable of getting all the information out of a sharp, well exposed, modern film.

 

There are plenty of opinions and discussion threads about flatbed scanners but my personal experience seems to be similar to many other posters. With the Epson 4990, a 6x to 7x enlargement done carefully is a reasonable maximum. A 6x6 cm slide makes a nice 10" by 10" print from a Fuji Frontier minilab at almost 5x enlargement. An 11x14 inch print from a 6x4.5 cm image would be about 7x. With the new Epson V700 scanner now shipping, new, used, or refurbished 4990 scanners should be available at an attractive price if you're interested. The 4990 comes with reasonably good software that can handle slides or negatives, and gives you a range of color and contrast adjustments.

 

A dedicated film scanner like Nikon 8000, Nikon 9000, Scitex, or drum scanner is needed to get all the information out of medium format film. For the occasional photo where you want a big enlargement plan to pay for a good quality scan with a proper film scanner. This is much cheaper than investing in an expensive piece of equipment.

 

Medium format film still holds a lot more information than most current digital sensors. Some of the current slide films also have a lot longer life expectancy (50+ years) than most digital images. Have you tried to read data from a 10 or 15 year old computer disk or tape recently?

 

Enjoy your Pentax camera. Go out and take photos of things that interest you. Remember to enjoy your new hobby and don't get too bogged down in technical trivia. Your film images will probably be around long enough for new scanners to do a better job on the film than is possible today. Digital images from a digital camera won't improve over time.

 

Allan

[graham_martin2]

Thanks Allan

 

Very encouraging words. I dropped my first negatives off with Ritz camera today, and the next two weeks waiting for the prints is going to seem like a long time. I did receive my 135mm f/4 Leaf Shutter lens today. I am really enjoying using what to me is an entirely new aspect of photography. I tried using the lens with off camera flash and using an exposure meter. It really makes you think and plan longer knowing that you are not going to get the immediate feedback of digital. I'm glad I made the plunge.