Between Weddings

[jeffc1]

For those of you that not only do weddings, but fill in the "gaps" through the

week between weddings by doing senoirs & portraits: How do you obtain the names

of upcoming seniors to do bulk mailings? I do a few seniors a year, but I would

like to be able to do more. I get Rangfinder magazine, which normally has a

postcard inserted for a company that offers the post card bulk mailings, but I

have thrown them away and will have to wait until I get my next issue, so I

thought I would ask here due to always being able to get professional advice.

Thanks a lot! Jeff

[mike simons]

Many schools - whether right or wrong, ethical, invasive, etc - will supply the local photographers with a spreadsheet (or even labels!!) of the seniors' addresses. Ours does, and it makes life ridiculously easy.

 

Can't hurt to ask.

 

-MCS

[jeffc1]

Mike, how do you ask the schools? My wife just this morning emailed the schools in our area, but I thought it would be better to either call or stop in to introduce either herself, or me, to make it more personable? I just got a response from one of the principals saying that they cannot give out that information to businesses/companies that want to profit from those individuals?

[mike simons]

Funny you ask --- I work at the high school, so I'm just about as non-threatening as it can be. However, it's policy for the other photogs who ask, too, I believe....

 

I'd go in person... Easy to rebuff an email. Too, I'd do some research (don't know where to point you) to find out what laws in your area dictate....

 

Anyone else have a tip?

 

 

-mcs

[William Michael]

> Anyone else have a tip? <

 

If you have five two hour `gaps` in your week, how many frames could you shoot off in that time pro bono; one hour at each of five high schools in the area . . . any function / football game / basketball practice / cheerleader rally / school drama rehearsal . . .

 

You need a give . . . which is then the hook.

 

Pointless arriving cold, bold and nameless, (never been seen before: don`t know how good I am: might be hopeless with kids: all I am interested in is a list of names so I can annoy everyone) and by the way I`ll do the formals and make lots of money, better to say hey, I'd like to GIVE . . . and you can SEE MY WORK. . .

 

What can you lose? a few digital ones and zeros and the five hours you were not doing anything anyway.

 

WW

[mike simons]

Excellent advice, William --- thanks for chiming in!

 

-mcs

[jeffc1]

Williams advice sounds good if all I did was stand behind a camera snapping photos while I had people working for me, or me for them, while they did everything else required to keep a business running, but that's not my situation. I am currently a one man show that has to do it all myself. Being retired, and hired in to perform certain task at some photography business, basically at Williams leisure so it sounds, but it's a bit different for me. I doubt that things were quite so laid back when he first started photography. Maybe not quite so hectic back then because of technology and competition differences compared to now. Please don't get me wrong, I am NOT criticizing Williams comments in anyway, because I see the point he was making, and I do appreciate his advice very much, but things are not quite so simple. A lot has to do where you are located. In my opinion, if I were to take senior photos free, there's a chance that the time it took to fill that gap could be wasted in a worse way by having that senior not show up to purchase prints. I have already attempted this approach in the very beginning when I didn't have anything to show seniors, but now that I have something to show it's time to run the business like a business that must make a profit to survive. Now I do not make tons of money at what I do, and I don't charge tons of money because I want to make photography affordable for everyone, so compared to some as far as costs go, I am pro-bono. I live in a small farming community, and some people here would rather buy a cheap point and shoot digital camera and take their own, or have a relative do it that may have the same. There are several photographers in this small town, with others wanting to do the same because they see John Doe down the road that does it and makes money so they feel they can do it too. Therefore, not only do I have competition from photographers, and photographer "wanna-be's", but I (we) also compete with technology and the "do-it-yourselfers".

 

I didn't mean to get on my soap box and/or get off track, but I already have low rates and give aways. What I need are ideas on how to better market my services to seniors and how to be able to obtain mailing addresses so that I can give them a simple post card telling them who I am, where I am and show what I can do. Not as a way to "hound" them.

[jean_marc_liotier]

Don't react so negatively to William's advice : the more competition there is on your market, the more important it is to get yourself known and establish the network that will provide you with leads. Spending half a day to shoot the biggest local school's baseball team is a pretty cheap way to obtain privileged access to your target population.

 

Nowadays there are no technical differences between amateurs and professionals. The only difference is that the professional have marketing know-how and have invested in developing business relationships. Consider the time spent with your target population as an investment - and who knows, maybe you will even be able to command higher prices for your senior portraits because you'll be the only local photographer with access to the addresses file...

[jeffc1]

Jean: Why is it that you feel I was being negative towards Willams response? Too often I get in these forums and there seems to be someone that pops on saying something such as that, which gives a "mind-set" for others reading the posts that takes the topic off track. If William took what I said as negative, then I apologize to him because I did not mean any disrespect, but that's for William to take up with me so that he & I can clear it up, not for you or anyone else to feel that you need to speak for him. I clearly stated in that response that I appreciated Williams remark and that I was NOT being critical of him! He had an idea, which again, I appreciated because he saw it one way, so I was simply stating my opinion based on what he said as how I see what he was talking about to merely state my opinion on his comment based on my experinces and my location. I was only going on the facts that he has posted on his bio page for p.net Forums are for discusions, which is all I was doing. I was not slamming him so please don't make it out to appear that way.

 

I understand all of what you are saying too, which is a take off from what William said, which I also appreciate. I have done, and still continue, to shoot events as you had mentioned to make myself known within my community, and I also look at it as an important investment. However, with respect to you also, that wasn't the topic of the post. I have been hearing and reading about something that I had never done before, which was bulk mailing. I was asking for advice for that from those with bulk mailing experience, not what I should do for free. Hence, the mind-set thing. But I do appreciate you taking the time.

[todd_k.]

If you guys think that the wedding market is watered down, the senior portrait market is totally submerged. There is a never ending supply of people who jump in, make some chump change, then realize that they are not going to make it and get out. If you plan on breaking in and really making money then you better have something really special that nobody else has. Also, direct mail campaigns are expensive so your something special better be able to help you recover the costs.

[primeimages]

One way to penetrate the senior class is to find 3 or 5 seniors and offer them a free shoot (possibly some prints also). From there, I would ask them to sign a model release agreement, assemble your "best of the best" shots, and have them printed on a nice 4x6 or 5x7 full color UV coated postcard. Once you have the postcards, I would ask these models to distribute your postcards to their class. Any successful sales can merit them a gift card or something (or cash commission).

 

By the way, the cost of printing postcards are getting a lot cheaper than it was a few years ago (about $175 for 1,000 pcs of 4x6...full color back to back).

 

Lastly, you'll be dead lucky to find a school that will furnish you the addresses of their students.

[apostrophe-studios]

<p>Many portrait photographers in our area advertise on the radio stations (that high

schoolers listen to) and put up booths in the middle of the shopping malls were the kids

frequent.</p>

 

<p>I've even seen photographers going as far as setting up a booth at high school sporting

events and handing out information — basically they try to market to anywhere

parents or kids will be.</p>

[jeffc1]

Yes, I am finding out that schools are not offering any information. I do have a few connections that I can contact to see what, if anything, that they can do as long as they are not putting themselves (jobs) on the line.

 

From the replies from those schools that I contacted today I was told that if I create a poster with my information with sample shots, that they would be happy to hang it within the school where it would often be seen. I believe I will give that a shot.

 

I have noticed that photographers within my area have had their senior clientel drop drastically, but I was hoping to change that?

[dave_thielen]

Jeffrey - Williams advise is probably some of the best you will get. Just get over the idea that it won't work for you and give it a try. Because it is really marketing 101 and it will work.

 

Get some displays out in the stores/malls in the area. Displays that consist of some of the type of work you want to get. And get testimonials from your happy clients, and put those next to their pictures in the displays.

 

And it's far cheaper than anything else you can do. Stay away from radio advertising - photography is a visual medium, you need to see it, can't do that on radio. Total waste of money.

[jeffc1]

Dave:

 

I never said it wouldn't work. I believe I mentioned above a couple times that I have been giving back as William is suggesting. I agree that it keeps me in the loop. I have never tried displays/posters, but I plan to and agree that it's a great idea.

Thank you.

Jeff

[William Michael]

Hi:

 

I am on the other side of the world and just got to work.

 

Wow, . . . a lot has happened whilst I was asleep.

 

Mr Connor: Well, I think you stink!

 

I wonder if that got your attention and the thread off the track . . . keep reading, please.

 

[MODERATOR : do NOT `circular file` this post . . . not only do I despise any censorship for able minded adults, but I didn`t really mean offence . . . ]

 

The audience`s Attention is attained and the joke is over . . .

 

Well, firstly you probably do smell on occasions, as do I, and as do we all, but that is beside the point: My 13 year old says `you stink` to me and her friends when they are a `bit tired and emotional` . . . it is to console them, to let them know `yeah I know how you feel`, `I have been there too.`

 

So first up, for all redaing, I read Mr Connor`s response as emotive, perhaps due to frustration, and CERTAINLY NOT a critical attack on me. NO OFFENCE was taken.

 

Secondly I know Mr Connor`s rates he charges and that what he does for his day job and formed a pretty even picture of his setup BEFORE I wrote my response. It appears to me he also might have done some homework on me?

 

I must clear up one misconception he did not uncover, though it is in many threads: I am not `retired` and I do not have much `leisure`.

 

[Aside: When I joined Photonet I HAD retired but ONLY FROM full time professional photography, but NOT from: teaching; judging; affiliation with my professional associations; and working in another (totally different) industry.

 

In January 2007 I took a contract to work about two or three days a week with the Wedding Portrait studio we sold about five years ago.

 

I realize that the word `retired`, whilst I thought it was accurately descriptive apropos my `taking photographs for money`, is, in fact, burdensome and actually sometimes destructive to the tone of my critique, advice and comment.

 

I have asked a couple of moderators to remedy this situation by removing the word, as it seems I cannot edit it: anyone who knows how to get rid of it, that would be great.]

 

Back to business: Thanks to Monsieur Liotier for raising the protective sword whilst I slept, and also Mr Thielen for his kind comments.

 

Back to the thread:

 

Mr Connor: I originally picked up on the comment from Mr Simons: `Anyone else have a tip?` which was in response to your second question.

 

Regarding the original (implied) question you posted:

 

>>`How do you obtain the names of upcoming seniors to do bulk mailings? . . . postcard inserted for a company that offers the post card bulk mailings. <<

 

 

IMO and from my experience and the experience of many whom our company has paid a lot of money to research, `dry` or `cold` bulk mailings, which is what I understand you are talking about, is one of the LEAST cost effective forms of advertising.

 

In the particular circumstance you are addressing there is a SLIGHT edge because there is a `perceived an definable need` and a `defined time` but, even so, I would not spend 1 cent of our studio`s budget on cold call direct mail in this circumstance.

 

Do not confuse the advice above with having customer mailing list, the two are distinctly different.

 

As to the comments I made in my first post, and other`s comments on the thread: well take a deep breath and re read them CAREFULLY on a relaxed Sunday afternoon, ideas might germinate as to how you might better utilize your time to network: and note I did NOT suggest you take SENIOR photographs pro bono.

 

In regard to:

 

>> Being retired, and hired in to perform certain task at some photography business, basically at Williams leisure so it sounds, but it's a bit different for me. I doubt that things were quite so laid back when he first started photography. <<

 

As I noted earlier you did research, goes with the medical training I guess? That`s good. Yes I am hired in at the studio to do some specific tasks. I also have a company I, and my wife, control. I am 51, have two children, and last week put in just over 72 hour week, WORKING: I had Sunday off, this week I (nor my wife) will have either Saturday nor Sunday off.

 

And again, you are correct when I started out it was more hectic than now: I`ll save you the details: and yes the challenges are different now, quite correct, but there were still challenges then too.

 

But the point is: I have met many more driven professionals than me, whereby I am left in awe, I am humbled by their output compared to mine, and also by the fact they still have time for charity, family and friends also.

 

The point is Mr Connor, (without any ego shout), if I can churn out what I do, you are certainly capable of doing much more than what I have suggested in the previous post: it really depends on whether you REALLY want to, or not.

 

The answer to that question lies within you.

 

Note well sir: either choice is correct: to do, or not to do, but either way, no excuses.

 

No one has the right to judge that choice, save yourself.

 

Good Luck with your business, and with your life

 

WW

 

[jeffc1]

William:

 

Wow! Very nicely put! Are you an author too by chance? I really appreciate your response, as well as all of the otheres. You certainly seem to have made some great accomplishments throughout your photography career, and I hope I will one day be able to do the same! I hope that they will be able to remove the "retired" from you bio as you wish. Good luck to you sir, and I do appreciate the great advice!

 

Respectfully yours!

 

Jeff

 

"Mr Connor" makes me feel that I should think about retiring :-)

[William Michael]

>> "Mr Connor" makes me feel that I should think about retiring :-) <<

 

Jeff:

 

Just etiquette and good business practice, I try never to assume until allowed so to do by the other party.

 

I am really pleased by your response: actually it is quite difficult to balance just the right amount of `thump` with the balance of `understanding` especially with the written word.

 

Go get em: it will work out really fine for you. You will find both the time and the energy.

 

Do it while you are on a roll . . .

 

It is easy to get my email address, I would be very happy to find out how it all works out.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[jeffc1]

Bill:

 

Thank you very much. I will contact you soon by email to let you know how things go, and if it's ok with you, ask a question from time to time. Thanks again.

 

Take care! Jeff

[William Michael]

OK