What would you do...

[gwendlyn702]

Hello Everyone,

 

Just curious on how any of you would handle a situation like this one.

 

A friend of mine was in a wedding for a friend of hers. The Bride was on a

extreme budget, and didn't have anyone lined up to do her wedding photos. So

my friend asked me if I would do her photos as a gift from her to the bride.

I agreed to do the wedding for next to nothing as a favor for my friend.

There were no contracts, or any written agreements drawn up because it was a

gift for the bride, and a favor for my friend. So I felt no need. The

wedding came and went without a problem. Everything was going normal until

the Bride asked me to change all the B&W photos to Sepia. There were only

about 50 or so, so it wasn't a big deal, but I told her it would be time

consuming to change them all, so if there were specific ones that she wanted I

would change those. She wrote me back saying that she intended on ordering

every print from her wedding. And did not want any black and white photos at

all, nor did she want them in her proof album. I wrote her back saying no

problem I will have them all switched right away, that normally brides dont

order every single pic from there wedding. I had them all switched within the

hour. Emailed her to let her know, and heard nothing back from her. I

emailed her a few seperate times letting her know that her proof album was

ready for pick up, and no response from her. Until today, she emailed me

stating a whole lot of rude things and threatening litigation for her not

having her proof album. I know legally there is nothing she can do, there are

no contracts in play here. NOt to mention I already have her proof album and

have had it for months now. So I am not worried about that at all. What I am

worried about is her word of mouth about me. I have handled this whole thing

with her as professonally as I can, even though at times I really wanted to

tell her what I really thought, I have never gotten rude with her.

[ni_gentry]

" I know legally there is nothing she can do, there are no contracts in play here. "<p>

Verbal contracts can be binding in some instances.<p>

"What I am worried about is her word of mouth about me."<p>

I wouldn't worry at all. For whatever reason, she already doesn't like you. You probably

are not going to change that. Also, it was a free job. You're probably not going to get any

meaningful referrals from someone like that, except maybe more free or next to nothing

jobs.<p>

Write her a letter (on paper, not email) and send it certified. Tell her that her photos and

proof album has been ready since such and such date, and that she has been welcome to

come pick it up anytime at her convenience. <p>

In the future, always have a written contract regardless of who it is and how much money

(or lack of) is involved.

[iskandar_azaman___kuala_lu]

I'd just keep quiet and keep all the pictures (you can use it for your portfolio). You are under no obligation to give her any pictures. There was no contract or anything like that. If possible have your friend be the middleman to inform the bride on how you don't appreciate her rudeness and that you were doing this as a favour and all that.

 

I'm thinking she's a low budget bride so word of mouth will usually spread within that circle which shouldn't really hurt you much either.

 

Or if you want to be nasty. Send her a proof album of ALL Black & White pictures. Stamped with your name on each and every photo. :)

[ni_gentry]

btw, Why did you let her tell you how to process the images (turning them to sepia)? Even for

paying customers, I don't do that. You should set your policies, make them known, and stick

to them.<p>

You made a mistake. Chalk it up to experience. Don't be "nasty" to her. Keep being nice,

but don't do any more work unless you get paid.

[dusty2004]

Stop wasting your time with her. Who needs friends like THAT !!!!!

Don't throw pearls before swines. Put it down to experience. There are some very ungrateful people out there, sounds to me she is one.

Your kindness has been wasted on THIS individual, my suggestion is don't stop being kind. Just be wary upon whom you bestow it. Cheers.

[fotografz]

IMO it's simple. The verbal contract was with your friend not the Bride. You did it as a favor

for her, so give her all the stuff and make her sign a receipt for it. Let her handle it. That will

give your friend a first hand dose of the ungratefulness ... after all, it was suppose to be her

gift to the Bride, not yours.

[alec_myers]

"I would do her photos as a gift from her to the bride. I agreed to do the wedding for next to nothing"

 

Next to nothing isn't free... so if you were paid anything then yes, a contract exists. If the friend of the bride paid you, though, that's who the contract is with, and I don't think the bride herself has any say in the matter.

[david_prouty]

Print out all of the e-mails you sent to her complete with date and time sent. Send a letter by mail, not e-mail, and notify her that you sent these e-mails and received no word from her. If you have other means of communicating with her, try them. You should always have multiple lines of communication and exhaust all of these options when immediate response is not gotten. If all else fails, deliver the images personally if in the same area. Make certain to inform her that you made many unsuccessful attempts to reach her. This is what you need the sent e-mails for so you can confront her with your attempts. I would want to face her in person to put her in her place. I would make sure she knew that I was not at fault and that her behaviour was insulting. If she got testy with me, this is me mind you, I would tell her to check her e-mails. Then I would let her know that the images will be available for ordering for 3 months and then be deleted permanently from my hard drive and destroyed. I can't be expected to keep images for weddngs that are done as favors for my friends, as I need the space for my PAYING customers. She can buy them on disc before that time for $10,000, otherwise orders will not be available past that date. All orders are payable in full at time of ordering. She will not get any more favors from me!

 

Ah, if only we could really do that! Yeah chalk it up to lesson learned and just get the images to her and apologize for any lack of communication the two of you had. She will probably apologize to you as well and that will be that. Never ever do a wedding for less than what you normally charge. Even, or rather, especially, for friends and friends of friends. Don't cheapen your self worth by doing so. And, as everybody said, never do a wedding without a CONTRACT with EVERYTHING spelled out and lines of communication and addresses for the client clearly written on it.

 

Best of luck to you!

[mitchfalk]

NO GOOD DEED - GOES UNPUNISHED !

[john_h.1]

"You are under no obligation to give her any pictures. There was no contract or anything like that... (you can use it for your portfolio)."

 

Sorry but Iskandar is 100% wrong here.

 

First there is a strong possibility that a verbal contract between the shooter and the freind exists making the bride a third party beneficiary who can compel performance. Also, to use the images for portfolio purposes (advertising) requires permission which is proved by a written release which almost certainly does not exist here. Now that will bring a legitimate lawsuit.

 

I would perform any real obligations, document like crazy and never do anything like that again.

[conraderb]

GN - don't worry about this. this bride needs to chill out a bit, especially b/c you offered this as a GIFT.

 

don't worry about word of mouth. do you think you need to be concerned about this woman's friends hearing bad thigns:

 

 

Your bride: "My photographer totally won't give me my proof book that she did for FREE! What a JERK! Ughhhh."

 

Her friends: "Gosh, what a jerk face he must be. Next time I'm looking for a free photographer, I'm totally finding one on craigslist. I will never use Gwendlyn Neutgens because she doesn't give enough VALUE for her NO COST package!"

 

See what I mean?

 

I'm sure that the bride is bluffing about suing people. I think most people are bluffing when they say they will sue - unless they are lawyers and sue people for a living.

 

One time I told someone I would sue - and I did, and I won. It was good times.

 

IMHO, don't worry about word of mouth. You don't need this person's contacts to get ahead in the photography world. If you DO get sued, call a newspaper. It could be GREAT publicity.

[annealmasy]

I agree with Marc. Give everything to the friend who commissioned the photography, and

have HER deliver it to the bride and deal wither. After all, it was your friend who hired you,

so technically she's the client.

[gwendlyn702]

Thank you all for such great responses...a few of them had me chuckling...I wouldn't use her pics for my portfolio she never signed a waiver. Even when they were on my website I password protected the folder and she gave the password to whom she wanted to. As far as the "verbal contract" goes between my friend and I, I have never had any intension of not following through with it, and I still will fullfill everything I told her I would. I guess that is one of the reasons why none of this makes any sense to me. Because the bride failed to communicate back with me, than all of a sudden one day out of the blue she threatens to go to litigation...I never once told her or gave her any threats or done anything to make her think she wasn't going to get her proof albuum or meisly 50 4X6 prints. It's like one day the bride woke up and decided she was going to blindly sue someone... for a gift no less. But I am not worried about that at all, the principal of the whole thing just really upsets me.

[surfidaho]

I do sympathize. But perhaps the bride never received any of your e-mails.

 

Next time, follow up with the telephone. Many brides change their e-mail address after they get married if they change their last names, and they never check their former e-mail address. You may have been sending e-mails into the ether.

 

One more thing: Never do business with friends and relatives.

 

Later,

 

Paulsky

[gwendlyn702]

Yeah, my friend (who asked me to do the wedding) is picking up the proof album this morning to be delivered to her.

[gwendlyn702]

Yeppers I do think you are right about not doing business with friends and relitives unless you treat them as you would an actual client. (contracts and all) I know she has gotten all the emails, because when she did respond back to me she always just hit reply, so all of our previous emails are right there. And when she emailed me out of the blue yesterday she just hit reply off of one of my old emails to her again.

[dave_thielen]

I disagree with just about everybody on the word of mouth and their solutions.

 

By the logic being displayed here, your friend that gave her the photography doen't have any money and won't be getting married, and doesn't know anybody with money.

 

Ergo - because she is your friend, you have no money (well being a photographer, that might be true), and don't know anybody that is getting married.

 

And if that is the case, what are you doing taking wedding pictures for?

 

So, yes, you do need to deal with what the bride thinks, and what she might do.

 

I also don't agree with the certified letters, the documentation etc. This is a bride, not a friggen court of law. Pick up the phone and call her, apologize for the misunderstanding and the lack of communication on your part. Then ask her what she would like done to rectify the situation. Odds are at this point she will apologize and you can both get down to fixing the situation, and having a happy customer. But it if doesn't and she just starts to dump on you some more, don't argue, just let her vent, when she's done, again ask her what she would like to do to rectify the situation.

 

The point is to get the two of you talking to each other -- not at each other.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

"I have handled this whole thing with her as professonally as I can, even though at times I really wanted to tell her what I really thought, I have never gotten rude with her."

 

Well, if it were handled professionally there indeed would have been a contract. While a contract doesn't solve every issue that comes up, it does address some specific expectations for everyone involved. Sounds like you didn't feel like you were giving her alot, especially since you charged "next to nothing". But she is expecting "alot"....probably because this was her wedding and your friend in turn probably "talked up" the value of your services.

 

BTW, to some people "next to nothing" means $50, to others it might mean $1000......

 

Clear expectations is even more important when shooting for family and friends. Most problems can be traced to "assumptions" and a lack of open/honest communications.

[greg jansen]

Give the album and CD to your friend, and tell your friend you have been having trouble contacting the bride.

 

Have drink and be glad you are not like the bride.

[iskandar_azaman___kuala_lu]

Hey...i wrote my first reply jokingly...didn't know that even a verbal contract with a friend of the bride would matter that much...but i guess here in Malaysia we're not as litigious as you guys...

[gregory_c]

I know this is after the fact, it is best not to photo friends weddings, espically for free. Even if she had paid, you would still have had problems with her. She seems like that type of person. About the litigation, she can not do anything, legally you never exisited at the wedding. You need to be careful because of bad advertising from her. Contact the mutual friend, you 3 meet with copies of e-mails sent/received. Try to resolve this in a professional manner. If you are a part or full time pro, let her know this nicely, and appear to be professional, in dress & speach also. She might be trying to get free pics from you. I had a sorta kinda thing happen to me about 10 yrs ago, bride did not like her wedding pics. I took the pics to another pro, who owns a large studio and pro lab, he looked at the pics & said they were great.

I passed this along to the bride, never heard from her again,,

good luck,,GC

[dave_thielen]

This was in my email today, and it just happens to speak about the influcene of a single person. Worth the read.

============================================================

 

SpeedSuccess! Home Business Strategies [sS!HBS] - Newsletter Series

 

"If you always do what you've always done... you'll

always get what you've already got."

 

Date: 17 May 2007

 

Editor: Andre Vas

 

============================================================

 

In today's issue I want to talk to you about....

 

***Networking Your Home Business within Circles of Influence

 

When you need an auto mechanic or an air conditioning repairman, where do you turn for help? Sure, some people turn to the yellow pages. But most will turn to friends and family and ask if they know of anyone who can do the work.

 

The best place for your business to be positioned is to be the business on the tips of the tongues of the people asked to make the referral.

 

 

 

=============

 

THE 300 RULE

 

=============

 

Preachers, funeral directors and people in a few other professions have learned "the 300 rule" through their own personal experience.

 

"The 300 rule" states that the average person knows 300 people on a friendly level. Wedding planners tend to make reservations for 300 guests. Funeral directors tend to need to make room for 300 mourners. You get the idea.

 

 

 

====================================

 

DOODLING WITH CIRCLES OF INFLUENCE

 

====================================

 

Imagine your circle of friends, family and acquaintances, a.k.a. your circle of influence. Now, draw your circle of influence as a circle on a blank piece of paper.

 

Next, contemplate the people in your parents' circle of influence. Some people who know your parents also know you.

Therefore, you will share some influence with the people your folks know. Now draw your parents' circle of influence on your piece of paper.

 

Your circle and your parents' circle will intersect in one area, although the larger majority of the two circles will not intersect. If you are like most people, the two circles on your page at this point looks very similar to the MasterCard logo.

 

Now imagine drawing a page full of intersecting circles, each circle representing the circle of influence of the people who are within your own circle of influence. Imagine trying to encapsulate an accurate rendering of where your circle and the circle of your friends will actually intersect.

 

Some circles will share a large area of space, while others will barely cover one another.

 

Actually, you can only imagine at this point what your piece of paper will look like. The actual layout of the circles imagined in this analogy is simply too overwhelming for the mind to comprehend.

 

 

 

================

 

THE BIG PICTURE

 

================

 

300 multiplied by 300 equals 90,000. By using the analogy of doodles in the previous section, the average person can actually network with up to 90,000 people! Even factoring in the overlap, one can still probably network with 50,000 people through their own circle of influence!

 

Simply amazing, isn't it?

 

 

 

===================================

 

HERE IS THE SECRET TO YOUR SUCCESS

 

===================================

 

There are 300 people on this planet whom you have a reasonable amount of influence. Take advantage of this fact. Make darn sure that every person within your own circle of influence KNOWS that you are in business for yourself, and make sure they understand what your business offers.

 

When your friend is asked to make a referral, they will recommend you.

 

 

 

===========================================

 

PASSIVE VERSUS ACTIVE REFERRAL NETWORKING

 

===========================================

 

When people ask your friends for a referral and your friend mentions your business, that is passive referral networking.

 

Active referral networking is when you can get your friends go directly to their friends and say "Hey, I have a friend who just started a business.

 

If you are in need of what he

offers or you know someone who will need his services, would you please give my friend a call or make the referral to his business?"

 

If you can get even a portion of the people in your own circle of influence to actively refer your business, then you have built the foundation to build an advertising campaign even more effective than the average local television advertising campaign.

 

*Think about that for a moment.*

 

Most people only dream of reaching 50,000 potential customers with their television advertising dollars. You now have the knowledge to reach 50,000 people without spending a single penny.

 

 

I hope you enjoyed today's article!

 

In 3 days, I'll send you a new article entitled:

 

"Understanding the Difference Between Marketing and Promotion"

 

To your success,

 

Andre Vas

http://www.MakeMoneyOnDemand.com

 

 

 

============================================================

o Copyright & Subscription Info

============================================================

 

© 2005 Speed Success, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

 

 

 

[john_h.1]

A couple follow ups on some comments...

 

"The verbal contract was with your friend not the Bride."

&

"it was your friend who hired you, so technically she's the client."

 

As mentioned above if there was any exchange of value at all, a contract has probably been formed. There is a significant likelyhood then that the bride is a third party beneficiary. This happens when the third party is the intended beneficiary of the contract. It vests when the third party relies on or agrees to the relationship. The third party then has the right to sue for failure to perform.

 

If you are going to agree with someone to shoot someone else's wedding, you need to know this. The idea of having the freind handle it all is more social than anything else. Its seems ideal, but if the freind dosn't follow through correctly, the consequence is still on you.

 

"I also don't agree with the certified letters, the documentation etc. This is a bride, not a friggen court of law. Pick up the phone and call her, apologize for the misunderstanding"

 

I'll split my response here. If someone is threatening litigation, as is the case here, it is completely foolish not to document your activities. It is very wise to diffuse the situation an sort out and resolve the misunderstandings if it can be done. These things need not conflict. Indeed, the freind (witness at same time) can help in the conservation.

 

In other words, try to work it out but cover your butt.

[gwendlyn702]

I Thank you all for your thoughts on all of this...I asked her to meet with me to talk about all of this but she refused. So all I can do at this point is finish up with what I told my friend I would do. She got her proof album today, so now I just have to wait for her to pick her 50 prints. Which I am assuming she will go through the friend for that. I will be so glad when her business is over and done with. A few big lessons learned here thats for sure. Thanks again everyone.

[frolickingbits]

Don't do work for friends is a pretty good general rule, I think, although I'm breaking that

rule and shooting two back to back weekends of weddings for friends, including for a girl I

dated several years ago.....however, there is a written contract, and I'm getting paid my full

wedding rate for both events.

<br><br>

I have one "friend", however, who I once did a shoot for a band she worked with, where I

somehow managed to be talked down from $150 to $100 to do a photo shoot in Boston (I

live in Portland, Maine), but she was supposed to come down with me, split gas costs, and

assist me during the shoot. A couple days before the shoot, I hear from the band that

they had some disagreements with this friend of mine, so she's not coming down. So, a

week after spending about $50 on gas, tolls, and food, and half a day in the basement of a

building in Boston for a photoshoot, I hear back from the band that they weren't happy

with their photos, and want me to come down and reshoot. So I go down, with my "friend"

this time, and <i>pay</i> to get in to the club they were playing at, and photograph them

live. Out of all of this, I don't even get a free drink, a nice courtesy most of my good

paying wedding clients usually do for me at the end of the night. And the band wasn't all

that great.<br><br>

Moral of the story: friends that refer cheapskate bastard clients to you are not the very

good kinds of friends.