No more Christies camera auctions

[john_spiers]

Christies auctioneers in London have announced that their upcoming auction in

June will be their last ever camera auction, after holding them for over 30

years.

 

The reason given is that "the interest in popular collectibles generally has

fallen in recent years and these areas have a declining and ageing client base".

 

That certainly sounds true to me. I attended the last Christies auction in

March, and the age of the average attendee must have been 60.

 

The question is, what does this say about the future worth of collectible

cameras (most of which are Leicas, looking at Christies catalogues)? If I had

a large collection of classic cameras I wouldn't be at all confident of it

holding its value.

 

Full story here:

 

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Chaplin_sale_ends_Christies_era_news_1

19409.html

[john_spiers]

Another go at that link:

 

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Chaplin_sale_ends_Christies_era_news_119409.html

[kelly_flanigan1]

Camera collecting was nil before 1970. Old cameras were like 2X CD readers, broken VCR players, old aol discs, or collecting spam; considered mostly junk. The younger teen folks I have as friends seem to only collect MP3's, videos off the web etc. As the "horders" get old who do they expect to buy their crud to pay for the nursing home or doctors bills? All those figurines, cameras, rockem sockem robots might drop in value as the pool of "wanters/horders" dies off. As the percentage of workers drops supporting retired folks; younger folks might have more pressing needs like food and shelter over a mint Leica box.

[elmarfudd]

Not my rockem sockem's, say it ain't so!

[gaijin]

Yea right, how many times have we read this prediction before.

 

Typically age follows age and things of intrinsic value will remain as such to those who can afford them. But something else seems to be happening. From what I see today?s ?20ish generation? are gobbling things old (old being 70?s vintage or earlier) up, and it seems to cut across all things (anything old is cool). And when they have real money (as they age/come into the market) what do you suppose might happen to those old Leica values?

 

In spite of digital and all things new, today?s 20ish gen seems to have a serious interest in what came before i.e., they aren?t accepting the so-called main stream media spoon fed interpretation/explanation of it like so many aging gens today do.

 

Thank God for a generation who once again can think for themselves!

[chandos_michael_brown]

"Thank God for a generation who once again can think for themselves!"

 

What silliness. I've spent my entire adult life (I'm 53) interacting with 20ish somethings, and while I like the current crop (as I have most other crops), I am perennially depressed by their relentless conformity to 'la mode', not to mention, except among the very privileged, their need to pay down the extraordinary debt many of them carry away from college and into their thirties--at least. What planet do you inhabit?

 

Those "old Leica values" are going nowhere but down--if they're the measure of your potential market.

 

Cheers!

 

Chandos

[claude_batmanghelidj]

For me it's all about the film. A leica is like a Stradivarius, it has a n asthetic refinement that would make it a valued tool in any age. However, while a stradivarius is still completely useable, there is a good chance that 35mm film will become obsolete. An obsolete tool no matter how beautiful is not really of any value, except as a curio (totally contradicting myself here).

 

Maybe someone can explain this a little better than I can.

 

I picked up a Nikon FE, with a 35mm, a 50mm and a 105mm lens, and an MD12 motor drive. These items are far superior in design and build quality to any current digital camera, but the whole bunch, in perfect condition cost me less than 200 bucks. Worse than that, though, they sit in my drawer at home. To take pictures, I pull out my plastic toy camera with it's silly little finder, and annoying machine shutter, a D70. But you can do much more with this soulless mass produced plastic digital toy than you can with the old film camera.

 

I can shoot literally thousands of photos, watch them all instantly, print only the ones I like. With film I am limited to 36 shots, need to wait a week for the results, pay for shots I don't like. Eventually you just throw in the towel.

[raymond_tai]

Did the Pope decree digital cameras have no souls? No wonder the M8 didn't survive the baptism and I thought it was the lack of weather proof seals.

[summitar]

I don't buy any cameras as investments, but still I would hate to see my collection sold off in a garage sale for $5 a camera. The younger generation, including my children, seem to have no interest in film cameras whatsoever. Walking around some of the affluent areas of the Seattle region (I have heard that there are more millionaires per capita than anywhere else; we certainly have more than our share of billionaires) I see 20 digital phone cameras for every film camera. The sad part is that the better made classic cameras, given film, a small supply of spare parts, and reasonable care, will probably be functional until the sun burns out, compared to the 6-12 month half life of digitals. It is hard to beat the instant gratification, and easy transmission features of digitals, however. One reason I like the Leica screwmounts and their ilk is that I can afford some of them now; their prices were well out of reach for me 40 years ago. I have noticed that prices are dropping dramatically; Nikon F100s in good shape for a little over $300, F5s maybe a hundred dollars more. I keep vowing to not buy anymore cameras, but when I see an M6 in near mint condition....but again, they are not investments. My best investment was 22 years of military service, even though the first 10 years were at starvation levels.

[love4leica]

Any one going to the Christies auction on wednesday 6th June? I shall be there.

[jonathan_reynolds]

<<With film I ...... need to wait a week for the results...>>

 

It fascinates me that folk are in such a hurry to see their capture. It's going to be exactly the same for evermore, so there's plenty of time.

[dan d. chang]

For most people, camera collecting is over, just like collect junk in your garage.

[tommy_baker]

> For most people, camera collecting is over, just like collect junk in your garage.

 

In that case, I'd be happy to accept everyones leica junk for free. I'll take good care of it and

even find a nice shelf for it. And every 4-6 weeks give it a good fondle so it feels loved. I'll

even pay for you to post it to me from abroad =0)

[35mmdelux]

"there is a good chance that 35mm film will become obsolete. "

 

News flash: film IS obsolete. digi controls 90% of the camera market.

[steve_ries]

Collecting is over in general. I sold off a lot of our general antiques several years back and I wish I had sold everything. It comes as no surprise high end cameras are slow sellers. Fear not, use your equipment and be happy you have it.

[jerry_kirkwood]

<i>Collecting is over in general.</i></p>It's not over it's just taking a breather. Economic and political happenings are putting a damper on most peoples' mood these days. True, the affluent collectors aren't as worried about $4/gal gas or skyrocketing health costs as the average Joe, but a lot of people's net worth was hammered pretty bad in '99-'01 and those getting within sight of retirement age are prioritizing more than they had expected to have to.

[roger_michel]

wow!! and dang it!! i have been going to the big camera sale in november at south kens christies for many years. i was there last november and the sales activity was VERY robust. the prices easily exceeded ebay prices and very few, if any, lots were passed. i can't believe this is about real flagging interest. my guess is that somehow the camera auctions are expensve to run and so not as profitable as other auctions. the other possibility is that the supply of good used leicas, etc is drying up. and only because people who collect them aren't parting with them! the same is happening with vintage wtaches. there is more to this story.

[jim_jeblee]

It's nice that I can now afford cameras that I always wanted, I just hope I can wear out my M2 & M6 before I die. Before long they will most likley be down to B&W film at higher prices, hey if I can pay $3 for a gallon of gas I can pay $10 for a roll of film. I still buy sheet film & the price is up a little, but not bad. I wish I had the time to shoot even the film that I can afford! Good luck all!

[john_lawrence4]

Hmm, for what it's worth imho is there any intrinsic value in anything material? Surely the value of an item is based on what someone will pay for that item?

 

The craze over the past few years for collecting items (fuelled by countless t.v. programs etc.) has now passed. In just the same way that its predecessor, the "home improvement / DIY" craze also ended.

 

What is now happening is that the market is levelling out - just as it did with classic cars in the early 1990's. But levelling out, not bottoming out. There will always be people willing to pay for items with quality workmanship - hence the high value of used Rolex watches, even though most medium priced modern watches are more reliable and accurate.

 

Any guesses at what the next craze will be?

[summitar]

Except for a Retina IIa bought in 1980, and a Canon F-1 in 2000, all of the 100+ film cameras and about 10 digitals were bought after my 65th birthday. So much for investing. I might just use them for ballast in my coffin. I have in recent weeks picked up some nice cameras at bargain prices by visiting photo shops and seeing what they are taking in as trade-ins. That way you get to handle the stuff, get warranties and return policies, and they are generally cheaper than the bay or even trusted vendors like B&H and KEH. I only want stuff that is in decent cosmetic condition and fully functional. Recently got a lovely M6 classic and very nice IIIf with summitar and SOOPD shade, 135 mm Hektor with bright lineviewfinder. It broke my heart when they told me that just the week before they had sold a like new IIIg that went for $700 on the bay. I would have bought that instantly. They now have orders to call me when anything interesting comes in. No, I am not wealthy, just have excellent pensions that have inflation protection, the world's best medical plan that is virtually free (my $3000/month arthritis medication is a $9/month copay), and my kids flew the coop. Plus land prices in the Seattle area have gone through the ceiling. We moved into our present house 21 years ago, never suspecting nor desiring that in the intervening years that the main Microsoft campus would be created and monstrously expanded to where it is about half a block away. Doesn't do anything for us now, and I don't mind that I need an Indian passport to enter my neighborhood, but it should make resale easy, if it comes to that. Of course, I don't always report my acquisitions to my loving wife. She prefers to waste money on trips to Paris and Spain. Plus I worked till I was 69. Arthritis didn't affect my engineering skills. I must complete my many false starts in documenting my stuff so they don't go in a garage sale. Film were surely outlast me, if only as a niche item. I still have the $25 Post Versalog slide rule that I bought in 1954 that helped me to acquire 3 engineering degrees, but I would never dream using in place of a computer/calculator. Still, it is a work of art and doesn't belong in a landfill. If there were a reputable museum near me, I would donate most of my cameras to it, with a proviso that I could borrow them for photography when desired.

[allison_reese2]

imo, classic/muscle cars are still hot because boomers are buying what they coudn't afford when these cars were new

[roger_michel]

then again, maybe the drop in vintage leica values means that people were buying them to use all along. and as film goes, so goes the value of these old cameras. i know i bought a lot of vintage cameras over the years and used every one!

[john_dorfman]

Weirdly, I don't notice any drop in vintage Leica prices! I started buying in this field (screw-mount) in 1998, and they're more expensive now. LTM Nikkor and Canon RF lenses in particular have gone way up.

[george_shihanian]

The Christies explanation and your experience says it all. Film is just about over. Its almost to the point as being a curiosity, and only to those of us that grew up with it. Interest in film cameras has dropped precipitously, just look at ebay auction results. And the age of people interested in film cameras is OLD (myself included). My children are interested in photography, but aside from a passing interest in instant prints when they were 8-10 years old, NOBODY under 30 knows anything but digital. Walk into any Wal Mart Best Buy, etc and ask to see the cameras. It's obvious, isn't it?

[steve salmons]

Although Christies have decided that dedicated auctions for photographic equipment are no longer a sufficiently profitable use of their resources, I remain optimistic long term about the interest in classic camera equipment.<br>

It will be intriguing to see whether the big European auction houses follow suit, ie Westlicht and Brecker. My feeling is that interest in classic equipment is still stronger in Europe than in the UK and it may be that the high end stuff will simply go there rather than to Christies. I am not sure what the situation is like in the USA and the Far East.<br>

Long term I think that quality of construction in any sphere tends to attract collectors. Also because the documentation of the history of the 20th century is very much bound up with images produced on film, I do not think that interest will completely go away.<br>

What will go away for sure is collecting cameras as an investment and as far as I am concerned this is only for the good. I generally have around 45 cameras some of which I am sure I would not get what I paid for them. However this is not really relevant to why they were acquired in the first place. I have them, I use them and I enjoy them, I trade them. If I sell one or two to buy another collectable then hopefully the acquisition cost of that "collectable" will also have dropped so no real loss.<br>

If you enjoy classic cameras as objects in their own right then it really doesn't matter what they cost or what they are worth. It's true that the loss of 35mm film would be a blow as part of the joy of ownership is occasional use. But defunct film formats have not stopped people collecting those cameras in the past and I am pretty sure it will not in future.<br>

The real downside of a mass market loss of interest in manually set cameras is the general ignorance about what actually controls the final image you end up with.