Best LF camera for telephoto shooting

[tony_black1]

I would like to know which 4x5 field camera is more suitable for the lenses

350mm and up?

 

And what is the max tele lens in 4x5 format?

 

I am actually looking around 175mm-200mm focal lenght range in 35mm format.

[brucecahn]

That would be around 625mm. It would require roughly 24 inches of bellows to focus a 600mm, not often found on a 4x5. If you really need to go that long the options are expensive. Schneider makes a 600mm tele which costs over $4000. You might be able to use that on some 4x5's. Their 550XXL costs even more. The 480 is really the longest lens which can easily be focused by one of the 4x5's with long bellows, and now costs around $4000.

[ronald_moravec1]

Some of the expensive models have extra long base rails and bellows joiners so you can use bouble bellows.

 

This is not a convenient rig and requires two tripods. Much over 300mm starts getting hard to handle. My longest was 350 and I am down to a 300 F9 G Claron.

 

Schneider may make a true tele design around 400mm. It would take maybe 300 mm bellows for infinity focus, 450 to make it versatile.

[christoph_hammann]

I use a Fuji f/12.5 450 mm lens that is only a moderate tele construction (distance from film

plane at infinity focus is 430 mm) and can focus it to about 3 meters on my Ebony SV 45 U2. I

find that tilts and swings eat into extension fast with this setup.<br>Shielding it from the

wind when both front and rear rails are extended in this way is beneficial. I use an umbrella,

it enhances the old-fashioned impression ;-)<br>

That lens would be equal to a 135 mm lens in 35mm format. It's not nearly as expensive as

the Schneider lenses mentioned.

[tony_black1]

how good it would be to use 400mm fuji lens with fotoman 45 ps camera. in their website they say its the max focal lenght you can use.

[michael_briggs2]

There are several 4x5 field LF cameras that can focus non-telephoto 450 mm lenses. Of

the cameras that I have used, the Canaham DLC and the Linhof Technikardan can do this.

The Technikardan is more rigid when focused on infinity. I use a 450 mm Fuji-C. There

is also the 450 mm Nikkor-M, but this lens is heavier since it is in a Copal 3 shutter.

Neither is a true telephoto, since both require essentially their full focal length to focus on

infinity.

 

With extra extension rails, Arca cameras can focus even longer lenses. There was a recent

thread with a photo of such a setup.

 

But if you want to go longer than 450 mm, you best approach is probably to use a true

telephoto lens. These typically focus on infinity in approx. 2/3 of their focal length. The

figure that you need to look for is the Flange Focal Length (or distance, which tells you the

bellows extension required to focus on infinity.

 

I think only Schneider and Fuji currently make LF telephotos. Until recently, Nikon made

the Nikkor-Ts, which of course are available on the used market. They used ED glass and

have an excellent reputation. The 720 Nikkor-T has an FFD of 469 mm and is in a Copal 1

shutter. The 600 mm Nikkor-T has an FFD of only 409 mm but it is in a Copal 3 shutter.

It is faster: f9 instead of f16. These are the focal length equivalents you have asked for.

 

If you only occasionally want to go that long, you could use a shorter lens (e.g., 450 mm)

and crop.

[jtk]

Graflex Super D.

[tony_black1]

what lens with graflex super d?

[tony_black1]

i shoot with mamiya rz 67 wth 350mm apo lens. i get nice results but i want to shoot the same focal lenght with 4x5 camera without too much hassle, set up or anything like that. i shoot nite time and use tripod all the time. if i cannot get exactly the 175mm focal lenght in 35mm , i would like to get the closest focal lenght .

[mark_sampson]

Your best bet would be a Nikkor-T 500mm f/11. I've used one (I rented it) on a 4x5 Zone VI camera, which has effectively 400mm of bellows. Very sharp, and available on the used market. Prices seem to be up a little since Nikon discontinued their LF lenses last year.

[jtk]

Mention of Graflex Super D was simply due to recollection of an old magazine photo essay involving a Graflex reflex (probably an earlier version than Super D) with incredibly long lenses, sports photography as I vaguely recall. The lens looked like a cartoon version of telescope.

 

Presumably it did have some sort of extra front support. No first-hand knowledge. There's no reason a big Nikkor (or process lens) wouldn't work, especially in view of the Graflex focal plane shutter.

[michael_briggs2]

Converting focal lengths between 135 and 4x5 isn't straight forward because the formats

have different aspect ratios. If we go by the diagonals, the conversion factor is 3.5, so 175

mm to 200 mm becomes 600 to 700 mm. 6x7 and 4x5 have the same aspect ratio, so

using the ratio of the width, length or diagonal gives the same result: a conversion factor

of about 1.7, so your 350 mm RZ lens is equivalent to about 600 mm.

 

There are non-telephoto 600 mm lenses, and a few 4x5 cameras that can use them, but it

is probably easier to use a telephoto lens. There are a lot more choices in field cameras,

pretty much any that can use a non-telephoto 450 mm lens. As already mentioned, Fuji,

Nikon and Schneider make or recently made 600 mm telephoto LF lenses.

 

If you search photo.net or browse the archives of this forum, you will find discussions of

the cameras and lenses mentioned on this thread. Here is a recent related discussion:

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Kiod

[Troll]

While my Graflex Super D will take a 15" Wollensak telephoto, its closest focus is about 20 feet. The old Big Bertha Graflex is a different animal (perhaps should be called the Big John Holmes Graflex?)<div></div>

[tony_black1]

Michael,

excuse my ignorance but why 450mm lens is not a telephoto lens?

 

what focal lenghts are considered telelens in 4x5? or am I missing something here?

[donald_hutton]

You're missing something....

 

Do wikipedia search on telephoto lens and all will be revealed.

[tony_black1]

How could a no bellows camera like fotoman 45ps can use a 400mm fuji lens?

[christoph_hammann]

Aw, don't be so stingy with information ...<br>A telephoto lens is a long (longer than the

image format's diagonal) lens that is nearer to the focal plane than it's focal length when

focussed to infinity. <br>It's nodal point, though, around which it seems to rotate in swings

and tilts, is in advance of the lens on the side of the subject.

[jtk]

Bill...thanks for the images, Holmes and photo.

 

Do you own that camera? Isn't the "Big Bertha" just a modified D?

[michael_briggs2]

"Michael, excuse my ignorance but why 450mm lens is not a telephoto lens?"

 

A 450 mm may or may not be a telephoto lens. It has become a very common misnomer to refer to any long lens, for the particular format, as a telephoto lens. The correct definition of a telephoto lens is a lens that focuses on infinity with substantially less bellows extension than its focal length. This could also be phrased as a statement about the location of the rear principal point, which is the location that you use to measure the image distance for use in the focusing equation. Normally the rear principal point is at about the center of the lens, so the image distance when focused on infinity places the center of the lens about one focal length from the film. If the lens design moves the rear principal point 1/3 of the focal length forward of the center of the lens, then the lens center will only be 2/3 of a focal length from the film when focused on infinity. So if you have a camera that is just long enough to focus a 450 mm non-telephoto lens on infinity, it will probably also be able to focus a 600 mm telephoto lens.

 

Usually non-telephoto lenses have more coverage, and sometimes better optical performance, than telephoto lenses of the same focal length, so if your camera can focus a non-telephoto lens of a particular focal length, that is usually better than a telephoto. An exception might be if you camera is too flimsy at maximum extension.

[Troll]

John, no it ain't mine, in fact I've never even seen one in the flesh (so to speak). I think this one came up on ebay, and I just copied the picture, and filed it away for an occasional chuckle. I'm sure that it's much, much earlier model than the Super D (1940).

[jtk]

Bill, I like the Hurst Shifter on that camera. Back then, cameras were cameras and DIDN'T have fiddly displays on the top to tell you when you were photographing a mountain, in love etc. :-)

[kelly_flanigan1]

With a 300mm F4.5 Xenar in barrel on my 4x5 speed graphic; I can focus from infinity to say 20 feet; with the bellows about to be ripped apart.:) This is not a telephoto "design" lens.

[kelly_flanigan1]

A telephoto "design" lens has a positive front group and negative power rear group. This makes the required bellows extension way less. It a telescope say a 6 inch F8 edmund reflector; the focal length is 48 inches; the tube roughly 4 feet long. If one adds a "2x" barlow lens in the eyepiece area; one might have a 6inch f16 reflector; the focal length being now 96 inches. Its now a telephoto design in operation; the focal length is alot longer than the capture device. In slang-street terms photographers often call a longer focal length than normal by the term "telephoto'; whether its really a telephoto optical design or not. In a brochure for the Kodak Ektra; they call the longer lens have a "telephoto effect".

[michael_briggs2]

Here is some past discussions about long lenses / telephoto lenses / cameras. There are more in the archives:

 

"Tele vs. lens of Equal focal length" at

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00BDLr,

 

"How often do you use your 450 /500 mm?" at

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0032kj

 

"Arca Swiss Field vs. Linhof TK45S" at http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=004NBF

 

Technikardan 45S lens selection 450 mm+ at

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00333t

[justin_mueller]

i would suggest the use of a sinar "f" with an extra standard and extra bellows and extra muscles (sinar claim the "f" stands for "field")