Canon 350D and sunpak 383 - Can I ask some questions on these (m)

[annie_smith]

Please excuse if these are really dumb questions ;-) Ive never had an off

camera flash before so have absolutely no idea what Im doing and really dont

want to spend money on something that wont work for me.

 

Im on a limited budget so am toying with the idea of buying a cheaper

alternative to the 580EX.

 

I have read other posts and the sunpak 383 seems to be a common choice for use

with my 350D.

 

However........ Is it only for use as an off camera flash? Will it be

compatible for use on camera as well or am I risking damage to my camera by

doing so?

 

If I do use it off camera on a stand etc, what other additional equipment am I

going to need to make it work? Will my flash unit trigger it somehow or do I

need to buy another piece of equipment to make that happen. If I do could I

get the name etc so I can do a search to see what that is going to cost me.

 

If it is triggered by my on camera flash, does that mean I need to have my on

camera flash, flash if that makes sense. I dont really want that to happen as

its not the most flattering light for portraits.

 

And I guess final question. If it were you, would you just keep saving up and

wait for the 580EX? I do eventually want to use it in a small studio type set

up.

 

TIA for any and all assistance. I know these probably fit into the flash for

idiots guide ;-) but we all have to start somewhere I guess lol

[big kahauna]

I don't know about what the others say, but I have used a 383 on a D30-10D-XT(350)-

and on my 5D along with all my VIvitar 283's and 285's and have never had a problem.

I guess I'm either lucky or there is a lot of paranoid people out there. (I think it's rumors

from Canon to get people to buy their expensive flash units.)IMO :o}

[jimstrutz]

You might want to peruse this link: http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/ -- Lots of info there about using low cost, and not so low cost, flash units to do all sorts of interesting things.

 

You can use the 383 directly on the camera's hot shoe. The flash has a very safe low voltage sync circuit, and the 350D is capable of handling up to 250 volts anyway. It will work like any other autoflash unit. Which is to say, it will work well if you know what you're doing. With autoflash you have to set the aperture on both the lens and the flash, and you have to manually keep the shutter to 1/200 or less. You will also have to tell the flash what ISO your camera is using. Minor issues once you learn to do it all, but it can be a bit confusing at first.

 

With any Canon EX series, or compatible, the camera will handle most all of this for you, so it's easier to learn, and sometimes faster to use.

 

To use a flash off camera you will need a cord or a wireless method to trigger it. With the EX flash you need Canon's 3 foot OCSC II (or III) cord, or one of their wireless triggers. Another 580EX can be used as the trigger, or the $200+ ST-E2.

 

For the 383 you can use any cheap PC to hotshoe, or PC to Sunpack cord, and they come in many different lengths. Or you can trigger it wirelessly. A not so simple (digital pre-flash aware) optical slave can be used eith the camera's built in flash as the trigger, but this flash will contribute to your lighting. A better way is to use a radio trigger system. Cheap ones run about $30 on eBay, or you can spend over 10x that for a very good radio system.

[michael_madio]

The Sunpak 383 will work just fine directly on your 350D. You won't get any automation so you must manually set the camera and flash.

[brucecyr]

Its kind of a funny question, as if you were trying to filter a lot of info overkill that's left you dazed. I take it you want a relatively inexpensive flash unit that's easy to use.

 

The Sunpak 383 is workable but I'm not sure as a newbie you're ready for it. Using a dedicated, E-TTL compatible unit will make flash use much simpler, and they can be had for prices not too much greater than the Sunpak albeit without as much flash power.

 

If we knew how you want to use the flash, we could advise better. It could be, of course, that the Sunpak is exactly what you need!

[nam_nguyen]

The Nikon SB24 or SB25 are the best deals as far as "strobist" purposes are concerned. They have auto flash modes for 5 or 6 apertures, not just 3 like the Sunpak 383. They also recycle a little faster with the same set of Nimh AA batteries. The only downside is that they are bigger than the Sunpak 383.

 

The SB26 even has a built-in slave, with a "delay" mode that perhaps would work bypassing the preflashes from your on camera flash. Anyone that has one of these care to comment?

 

I have both the SB24 and SB25 and they work fine on my 20D and G3. Surprisingly, flash exposures are very accurate, though just basic old tech auto thryristor, none of that fancy ETTL stuff.

 

I'm still trying to get an SB26 from Ebay to test its built-in slave feature.

[annie_smith]

"<i>Its kind of a funny question, as if you were trying to filter a lot of info

overkill that's left you dazed. I take it you want a relatively inexpensive

flash unit that's easy to use.</i>"<BR><BR>

 

Yep that pretty much sums up things pretty well LOL<BR><BR>

 

Ive tried reading strobist but without any basic understanding of flash units at all Its all pretty much greek to me. I need to get something to get a basic understand but really dont know where to start ;-) Im also a bit stuck on what I can and cant use after reading on strobist that there is no PC cord point or something on my canon which means I cant use a lot of the stuff he recommends. Poor old head is pretty much spinning ;-). The canon seems to be less compatable with other units?<BR><BR>

 

Oh and so you have a better understanding of what I want it for, Im basically a portrait photographer (mainly child and family portraiture) using natural light at the moment. What I want to do is get a flash unit to allow me to do portraits when there is not enough available light. Im also quite interested in studio stuff, especially the high key look and so a flash I could use as part of a studio set up later would be handy too.<BR><BR>

 

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply to my question, I really appreciate your help!

<BR><BR>

[jimstrutz]

Annette, you can get an inexpensive device for your camera's hot shoe called a "hot shoe to PC adapter." Most camera stores stock them, and they are less than $20. That will provide the PC sync connection to use an inexpensive PC to PC or PC to Sunpak cord.

 

Easiest thing to do is take your camera and flash to a real camera shop, tell them what you want to do, and ask them to hook you up with the adapter and cord for the flash. This is, providing you go with the Sunpak 383, or Vivitar 283/285 type flash.

 

There is no good way to cheaply get a Canon EX series Speedlite off camera more than 3 feet. Canon's wireless system works well, but it is not cheap. You can use small radio transmitters for the Speedlites, but then the flash units have even less automatic control than the 383. So go this route only if you are willing to part with at least $500. I can tell you this is money well spent, but if you can't afford to do it, there are other inexpensive options. They just aren't as easy to master.

[picturesque]

Based on what you want to do, I'd get one 383, use it on-camera for a while and then decide if you want to get into multiple flash. The trick to using the 383 with your camera is understanding how it's flash metering works. It uses auto thyristor flash metering, which is quite different from the flash metering Canon uses. Auto thyristor flash metering is an older method and uses a sensor built into the flash itself, as opposed to Canon's ETTL flash metering, which is built into the camera itself. The basic user differences would be twofold. First, an auto thyristor flash doesn't "talk" to the camera, so it doesn't pick up the camera's settings automatically. You have to set the ISO on the flash and you have to set the auto aperture that you want to use, which, by the way, is limited (I think there are 3). Then when you change f stop on the camera, you have to change the setting on the flash to correspond. So you can't use Program mode, or Shutter Priority, since auto thyristor flash is based on f stop as the control (actually all flash exposure is based on f stop). As long as you are comfortable using manual mode or aperture priority, you can integrate an auto thyristor flash into your working method. Compensating the flash also works a little differently--you can't do this from the camera body. Second, you won't have focus assist, which can be handy. The 383 will not damage your camera.

 

To sync an off camera flash using a 383 on camera, provided that the off camera flash is a manual or another auto thyristor flash, all you need are inexpensive white light slave units such as a Wein Peanut. The on-camera flash will trigger the off camera flash. However, any flash will also trigger the off camera flash. You can get into proprietary triggering systems, but the price climbs a lot immediately. If you don't want the on-camera flash to register in the exposure, you can set it on manual very low, and/or aim the head away from your subject, or use another very weak flash unit just for triggering purposes.

 

You can't mix auto thyrsitor flashes with ETTL flashes unless the ETTL flash is the off camera and is set to manual mode, and 580EX units seem to have some problems functioning outside Canon's closed flash system. I have also heard that Canon's wireless system have range and reliability problems sometimes. And some people like auto thyristor flash exposure better than ETTL, claiming it is more consistent. However, there is something to be said for the integration of the flash with the camera, especially if shooting in fast moving situations. As Jim says, there is no cheap way to get into the Canon flash system, but if you want to go this route, I'd start with one 430EX, learn it, and then go from there.

[james_cope1]

Annette, if the cost of the 580EX Speedlight is too costly for you, you might consider the 430EX. It will reach out there but just not as far as the 580EX. Remember that with a flash unit, it is always better to have too much than not enough. There are other brands you can use, Sunpak, Vivitar, Metz, Cullman, the most important thing is that it has to be a dedicated flash for your camera to work properly.

I'm just now getting into digital photography after more than 35 years as a film shooter. I'm getting the Canon Digital Rebel XT [350D] and as far as a flash unit, I will use my Metz M45CL4 with the proper module for it and a special bracket that will enable me to shoot both horizontally and vertically. Do not be afraid of warnings that only Canon flashes will work with your camera. You can use Sunpak, Vivitar, Metz, etc. and it will not void the warranty on your camera. Good luck.

[jimstrutz]

<I>"The most important thing is that it has to be a dedicated flash for your camera to work properly."</I>

<P>

That's probably misleading, James. Many autoflash or auto thyristor flash units are not dedicated, but work "properly" on nearly all cameras. Older designed units like the 383 or 283 work fine on modern cameras. They just don't work as simply as dedicated flashes.

<P>

But I do agree with the recommendation of the 430EX. It's a sweet little unit with enough power and features for most.