Which 210 mm lens for 8x10 Tachihari?

[melissa_house]

Hi im new to 8x10 format & am looking to purchase a new Tachihari, im thinking of getting a 210mm lens

and am a little confused as to which one to hunt down! I will be shooting mainly portraits within urban &

landscapes settings, and some landscapes on its own. It is important to me that there isnt any vignetting,

but i dont think i will be needing a huge amount of movements as i wont be doing real architectural work.

Weight is an issue- as light as possible (im a tiny lady ;D), and of course sharpness & contrast for colour

work.

Im very much inspired by Joel Sternfelds work in 'American Prospects' and would like to work on that type

of lens coverage more or less but it looks to be pretty wide.. not sure if hes changed to a longer one for

the portraits in later pages. http://www.billcharles.com/sternfeld/joelsternfeld_7.htm

 

Same lens for both these images is it poss?

http://www.hainesgallery.com/images/JSTE.6414.lg.jpg

 

http://modernartobsession.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/sternfeld_mclean.jpg

 

So i was thinking.. Shneider G Claron, a Fujinon or a Shneider 210 Angulon?

 

I would love to hear your advice & opinions, many thanks M.

[brucecahn]

Schneider L or Rosenstock Apo Sironar s are the best made. I am a photo dealer & sell these (because they are the best).

[pico]

Melissa: If weight and size is an issue, then know that the 210mm Super-Angulon is as big

as a half-gallon paint can.

[emil_ems1]

Melissa,

 

Pico refers to the Schneider 210 Super Angulon. This is indeed a huge piece of glass. However, the 210 Angulon, which I happen to own, is a relatively small and light lense, which I put to good use on my Tachihara 8x10. I can recommend it for your purposes. Not the sharpest lense around, but light enough for your camera and good enough for up to 5 times enlargement I gather. I prefer to use it at f 32 and smaller.

[melissa_house]

This is great invaluable info! Pico.. ill stay clear of that one, thanks guys. So does opting for

a lighter lens generally mean having to accept less sharpness? Is there any other good sharp

but not outrageously heavy lenses? G Claron vs Fujinon??? And how wide do you think Joel is

shooting at in the above pics?

[roger hein]

Melissa,

 

Are you certain Sternfeld uses a 210mm lens? From his perspective I can easily see these

being shot with a 240mm which gives you some more options like the 240mm Fuji-A,

Schneider G-Claron or Nikkor-W. All are sharp 'modern' (colour corrected) lenses.

[big toys are better]

The G-Claron 210mm will indeed cover 8x10, but you will need to stop it down quite a ways and perhaps even rack out the focus if you need movements. But the lens is also quite small and light compared to other suggestions, making it very useful for field work where hiking is essential. However, it also is not multi-coated which may have a small effect on color work but isn't so important for B&W, especially if filtered.

[melissa_house]

Roger,

no im not certain at all of Sternfelds lens use , im totally new to this format (ive always used

6 7 and a little 4x5 when i was a student), so am just literally trying to hazzard a guess with

the help of you guys. So you think 240 could give that flexibility of people and wide land/

urbanscapes, it was my initial choice but im just not sure between the two, is there alot of

difference beween 210-240 on 8x10? Many thanks for these tips i will def. look into it.

[melissa_house]

R Hofland, many thanks also.. re what youve said i dont think i need alot of movements but

like i mentioned before i am new to this. How far stopping down are we talking? I live in

Western Australia we have great light, low wind etc. This is the TAchihari im after

http://www.adorama.com/VW810FC.html max bellows 550mm...

[melissa_house]

Roger your 'places of worship' & 'white churches' series are fantastic!

[michael_briggs2]

Moderate wide-angle is a tough lens for 8x10. The absolute best technically is the

Super-Angulon, Grandagon(-N), or Super-Symmar-XL, but the first two are enormous and

heavy, the third still pretty heavy and expensive. The problem with plasmats, which are

much smaller, is that even extended coverage plasmats, such as the 210 mm Apo-

Sironar-S and Apo-Symmar-L mentioned by Bruce, is that they barely cover. Rodenstock

lists the coverage of the 210 Apo-Sironar-S as 316 mm diameter, Schneider 321 mm for

the Apo-Symmar-L. These figures allow extremely little possibility of movements such as

front rise.

 

Other possibilties: there is the hard to find 210 Apo-Sironar-W which has yet more

coverage. Users report that the G-Clarons (as mentioned by R Hofland) and Computars

(not the Symmetrigons) increase in their coverage as one stops down, at least for contact

prints, past the coverage listed by the manufacturer (260 mm for the 210 mm G-Claron).

These lenses are small and light. Going a little longer (240 mm) proportionally increases

the diameter of coverage.

 

With the exception of the Apo-Sironar-S and Apo-Symmar-L, mosts of these lenses are

only available used.

 

Some past discussions: "Rodenstock APO Sironar-S 240mm/5.6 on 8x10" at

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=004NjO,

"Which Lens : The Best 8x10 Lenes You could find?" at

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=004cTe,

"240/210mm lens for 8x10 camera with plenty coverage" at

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=009cMq,

and "Sharpest 28mm equivalent for 8x10" at

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00BJzr.

You will find more in the forum archives.

[donald_hutton]

Great advice from Bruce Cahn - neither of the lenses he recommends cover decently enough to use movements! It's clear he merely sells them and doesn't use them... Perhaps forum readers should contemplate that when they read his self promoting repsonses on this forum.

 

210mm is a very tough focal lengh for choices on 8x10. An older Fujinon WS 210 works very well and is quite inexpensive. A 210mm Kowa graphic will also cover fine, but prices have gone up a lot. Obviously a Computar 210mm f9 would work a treat too. Probably the best advice is to look for a 240mm of which there are many which cover very well. My personal favourite is the Docter Germinar W 240mm which is small light and tiny and is extremely sharp. Not easy to find though. A budget choice would be a 240mm G Claron.

[big toys are better]

Mr. Hutton,

 

I beg to differ on the 210mm Apo Schneider and Rodenstocks, as they at least cover past the corners of 8x10 at f/22, and given the usual degree of conservatism of the Germans in stating their numbers, actually give a bit of movement as well (more than my Nikon 300mm M). Stopped down to f/32 they will give good clean coverage. I don't think Bruce was at all off base, and they really are very fine lenses even if barely adequate for 8x10.

 

The G-Claron ought be stopped down to f/45 or so to get good coverage for 8x10, but I don't think it will do any better then the Apo Symmar as far as coverage. A 240mm G-Claron (or Symmars) will obviously give better coverage than the 210mm, but the 210mm is a nicely moderate wide-angle for the 8x10 while the 240mm is really more of a short normal.

[big toys are better]

And let me also add my normal caveat for using lenses that nominally don't give good coverage for the format to be used-- RACK OUT THE FOCUS and your image circle grows! It's a good way to learn how to use depth of field to your advantage.

[joeh]

If you want to use the same focal length as Joel Sternfeld, then get a 250mm ektar (which is what he has used for most of his 8x10 shots) or something similar. In newer lenses a 240mm length would give you many choices.

[melissa_house]

This is serious food for thought- once again thanks for this invaluable information, where

elce can you get these opinions/ advice when your new to LF! I dont know anyone locally who

shoots this size you see. I am now going to consider serously a 240 before jumping into

getting a 210.

[User_503771]

If you have access to 4x5 equipment -- friends, a store -- try the lenses of *half* the focal length on 4x5. Just looking through them at the ground glass will be informative as to angle of view, so you can make a better-informed decision as to what you want/need.

 

You might even be able to borrow or rent for a weekend or a week.

 

I say try with 4x5 because there are a whole lot more of them around. Double the 4x5 focal length, and you get the same angle of view on 8x10.

[armin_seeholzer]

Hi

I have the Konica GR II 210mm which covers also nicely but its without a shutter in my case I

can use the Sinar behind the lens shutter or a darkslide as shutter!

It has a very sharp coverage of about 320mm and much more but it gets then a bit soft at the

corners!

But for a 240mm I can very higly recomand the G- Glaron which I use and it is a tak sharp

lens and so small it fits in a copal 1 shutter!

At 240-260 mm there are many more good joyces!

Armin Seeholzer

[Troll]

A 8.25 Dagor will cover it. They are small and light, and not too expcnsive if you avoid the "Gold dot/rim etc" label ones.

[roger hein]

Melissa,

 

For me the 240mm was a great focal length to use on 8x10. Between the Fuji-A and the G-

Claron I found the latter allowed for more movements. I used an 8x10 Tachihara w/240mm

G-Claron and found the combination ideal. On the Tachihara a 210mm will also work but

there is more bellows compression which will limit the amount of front rise/fall compared to

using a 240mm.

 

P.S. Thanks for the compliments!

[donald_hutton]

Not sure why you have to be quite so contrary, especially when you are wrong.... However, the poster clearly wants a lens for 8x10 so the suggestion of lenses which are by your own admission "barely adequate" makes no sense. Plain and simple bad advice - which I pointed out. I have actually used an Apo Sironar S 210mm on 8x10 and you will find that there is mechanical vignetting just past the actual stated coverage so stopping down a whole lot doesn't really help. Sorry - the lens is not of much use on 8x10 in my personal experience.

 

Secondly, I am completely aware of the effects of using hyperfocal focussing to achieve a slightly larger image circle - 11x14 is my main format, so I have to do a fair bit of it. However, it certainly does not solve every situation and I believe that it would be more than inaccurate (i.e. misleading) to state that a lens covers a specific format when in fact it only does so using hyperfocal focussing without explcitly mentioning that fact. Almost every 150mm lens ever made covers 8x10 at some distance (super macro) - it's just not actually at all useful to state so because most only do under very certain conditions which are of extremely limited use. I suspect that the original poster is looking for a lens with "adequate" coverage at normal shooting apertures - not "extremely marginal".

[melissa_house]

Thanks Donald, very enlightening, & yes, adequate coverage at fairly normal apertures.. This

thread has helped me tremendously.

[jesus_blazquez]

Joel Sternfeld uses a 240mm, 300mm and 360mm, the two 210mm that cover 8x10 with

movements are the schneider 210hm supersymmar and the new 210mm xl from schneider

too. the newest 210mm is bulky and have a big angle of view 105? .

[amund_aaeng]

A Fujinon 250mm f/6.7 is just the right lens for you IMO.

I have one myself and it`s my most used lens.