Need Advice On Breaking Into the Biz...

[scottyboo]

Ok boy and girls.... I've been banging away at the Craig's posts, made my own,

trying to network with MUAs and stylists - still haven't had great success at

scoring even some TFCD work to bulk up my portfolio... anyone with a New York

edge have any suggestions on how to break the ice? I got the gear, I got the

talent and importantly I got the drive - just need the gigs!

 

As always, your input is greatly appreciated!

[stacy]

I wrote out an answer, but then deleted it- it's not very nice. Would you like the PC version or non-PC (honest) version?

[mike dixon]

Unless you have much stronger photos than the ones on your website, it's not a mystery why MUAs, stylists, and models aren't jumping at the chance to work with you. Poorly-thought-out snaps with on-camera flash are not going to impress anyone who has the skills or looks to help you.

 

Look for a photographer in your area who has a strong portfolio of modeling/fashion images (beginning pro or skilled amateur) and see if they will let you assist. You may have the gear, the drive, and the talent, but you clearly don't have the chops.

[beauh44]

<I>still haven't had great success at scoring even some TFCD work</i><P>

 

You might try joining <a href="http://www.onemodelplace.com">OMP</a>.<P>

 

The models can sign up for free but photographers have to pay. While some may see that as unfair it weeds out most - but not all - of the "Guys With Cameras" who pose as photographers but have ulterior motives. Good luck!

[bruce levy]

Exactly which "biz" are you trying to break into?

[sublimeimages]

ouch!

[jimi_james]

You don't need stylists and muas. just try free testing with agencies and keep the photos

simple. be your own stylist, get second hand clothes, model can do basic makeup by

herself. if you are really talented you will make beautiful photographs. it all depends what

is your attitude to woman in real life, you must follow it in your photography.

[edsel_adams]

Have you compared your work to that of any working fashion shooters? I'm not in that line of work, but I can say with authority that you have a long way to go.

 

 

The usual method to entering this field is to wow 'em at photo school. And then apprentice with a master. After several years of "interning", you will know if you are ready.

 

 

 

Trust me, having equipment and a lot of presumptions, is low on the list of prerequisites for fashion shooters.

 

 

 

Forget what people tell you that you don't need college, or to apprentice. There are very few self taught professional photographers, at the upper levels of the game.

 

 

 

Granted there are exceptions to this rule. But there are also thousands of unemployed shooters with better portfolios than mine or yours.

[jimi_james]

Edsel, the best were self taught or studied ART not photography. The best school in Paris

is just one year. Studing photography makes one more boring, schematic photographer. In

this business the most important thing is uniqeness. I used to learn from a good photog,

just about photography in general, then was lucky to meet masters, they all told me:

FORGET about studying photography - it is waisting of time and money. Maybe assisting

but not too long would help. I AM in the business, my photos are in the best agencies in

paris, milan, ny, tokyo, etc. Just started publishing in few mags. Today, shooting fashion is

about shooting woman.

[greg_updyke]

<P><strong>got the gear, I got the talent and importantly I got the drive - just need the gigs!</strong></p>

 

<p>Dude, you may have the gear and the drive, but you don't quite seem to have the talent. If your portfolio is the kind of stuff you're showing models then you won't get any fashion work ever. If you've got better work then dump your current portfolio and get your good stuff up.</>

 

<p>If you want to get started in fashion photography then try looking at some pro portfolios. This will show you how far off the mark your work is at the moment. Only when you can close the gap should you think about 'breaking into the biz'. And buy Vogue, ID, Dazed and Confused, Pelle, Wallpaper. Make sure you read them.</p>

[bruce levy]

In addition to the valuable advice above, if you don't get to work with a pro, to wake you up in relation to what you now think of the "biz" you'll continue to not have a clue. Walking in for a job with your present portfolio would be a waste of your and the photographer's time, and your present attitude will undoubtedly eliminate you before you even get started. The first step is to do enough research for you to see that you don't know anything about the "biz", and your present take on the matter has nothing to do with reality. The second step is to get to a place where you can see that your work is lacking, and correct that on your own. You'll only one chance to see any specific photographer, don't screw it up.

[scottyboo]

Hmm... ok, thank you. It wasn't my intent to come off with an attitude, but it seems from all replies that that was somehow conveyed. I never made a presumption to know the business - I don't, which is why I asked the question - and perhaps I may have worded my request for advice better... it was advice I was after in the first place. Yes, I am well aware that what is on my site needs work - there really are no portraits to speak of - but I was simply seeking some guidance as to how you pros got started in the first place... I had thought making a post here was a needed part of my "research," hence the original post. I have always taught my children that the only stupid question is the one not asked; wow, do I feel stupid now.

 

Yes, having a good equipment budget is not the end-all, I fully understand that, but having opportunities to practice surely are. I have spent months defining and redefining what I would like to shoot and how that dovetails into a business plan, including personal development, technique and growth. I was hopeful I would receive some positive response to my question as I always have here, it was not my intent to come off as unprofessional or whatever term you would use, or to presume anything. I simply wish presumptions were not made about me. With all due respect, and not trying to be defensive really, I did not find much "valuable advice" here.

 

If anything, this will serve of some value in that it will focus my efforts more toward success and proving the naysayers wrong, so I suppose there is something positive to be gained. I apologize for my long-winded reply and for my defensive posture this response may impart, but mostly it seems for wasting everyone's time in asking for guidance.

[bruce levy]

Actually, looking back at the responses I see a wealth of good answers to your question, dispersed with valid criticism. If you can't glean the answer you were looking for within the above posts, you will remain the same person who asked the original question.

[tuanhbui]

Scott, in addition to joining OMP, try modelmayhem.com. There are plenty of entry-level models on there that would probably love the opportunity to test with you.

 

Don't worry about the hate you get on here - you have the right attitude (i.e. determination and lack of fixation on gear) and your portfolio, while not pro-class yet, does show promise.

 

I myself am trying to "break in," so to speak, and I'm only a little farther along in the process than you. The best advice I can give, though it's probably pretty obvious, is to shoot, shoot shoot. Test shoot with anyone and everyone - your friends, your neighbors, and your relatives in addition to models - and hone your skill. I find that MUAs are much harder to attract than models as they are rarer - so once you have a decent portfolio using models that do their own makeup, you will probably find it easier to get a MUA to donate their time and services for test shoots.

 

Feel free to contact me privately if you want - you sound like a reasonable person :)

 

Good luck.

 

Tuan

[Ian Taylor]

Rethink your site.

[keela_candler]

Scott:

 

You didn't come across with attitude in your initial post. You just wanted some helpful advice. Some of the feedback you received was attitude-infested. I think Jimi James gave solid advice.

 

I definitely see the need for some more work on your portraits. Focus on lighting and composition. I liked your wedding pics. Have you ever just considered a niche as a wedding photographer? You could work on fashion photography on the side until you build a more impressive portfolio?

[scottyboo]

Haven't honestly been on photo.net for quite awhile, but checked this thread and I really want to thank Keela and Tuan for their input. Ian: absolutely it is one thing I need to do and am looking at alternatives to the "cut and paste" model of foliosnap, perhaps even a better one like sitewelder or others.

 

Keela.. thanks for the positive comment on my wedding shots - I have two exciting events this month, one a beach ceremony in the Hamptons, and another in Central Park. While I do enjoy the wedding specialty, music is my favorite, and I would very much like a shot at shooting some high fashion work... I just have to keep plugging and remind myself to ignore the naysayers.