vc2 Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 I think many M6 users will agree, sometimes they have to endure the flare prone problem of M6's finder window when faced a strong light source in front of them. <p> I read a good news from Mr. Puts, that is according to Erwin Puts' M7 review, he said there's a major difference between M7 and M6: "the improved coating of finder window". My question is : will Leica apply this improved coating to the existing production M6/TTL? Or it did already? Then when? <p> If this is really an improved feature, that means Leica knows this is a M6 problem all the time for more than ten year.(M6 has been introduced since 1984!) Why took them so long to materialize the fixing? I have email these questions to both Mr. Puts and Leica. I will post their answer if any. <p> Personally, I have no prejudice to M7. If the so called improvement is true, then I do feel existing M6 users have been mistreated by Leica! That's annoyed me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec1 Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Yea, VC, Leica KNEW from the start they had a problem with that window, AND knew how to fix it in 1984, but just waited until now, just because they wanted to hack you off! <p> According to your illogical argument, no manufacturer should improve their product, because some bozos will claim they should have had it already on earlier models, and want free upgrades. Depending on what it costs, they may, or may not retrofit existing stock. I don't feel mistreated. Of course, I wish they'd figured it out earlier, but then so did families of people who died of infections before penicillin was discovered. Do you think they were "mistreated". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcg Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Geez, is this the "emotional" thread I've been seeking for so long on the LUG? Cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles barcellona www.bl Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 Aw c'mon... its a no brainer that if you multicoat it, its gonna flare less. Even my wife's horrible eyeglass perscription, I can now photographer her and get her eyes in the picture with multicoated glasses. The old uncoated ones were just horrendous, all flare/glare no eyes. Lighting was a @#$$#@% now its a breeze! <p> Leitz OUGHT to have known better, we're not talking breaking a lot of new ground here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vc2 Posted February 25, 2002 Author Share Posted February 25, 2002 Alec, <p> I partly agree with you. But my main question is "will Leica apply this improved coating to the existing production M6/TTL?" If penicillin was discovered, when will they use it to save life. If thus, Leica has to raise a bit price on M6/TTL, let's fair. May be Leica just found the improved coating formula resently. Then my complain is not so justified. So, will Leica continue to sell M6 with flare prone finder window. (Remenber change coating is not change Model! As we know Leica lenses did change coating with the same optic design.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vc2 Posted February 25, 2002 Author Share Posted February 25, 2002 Sorry for my misspelling and poor grammar. <p> Some of my above remark should amend as follows, "If thus, Leica has to raise a bit price on M6/TTL, that's fair. May be Leica just found the improved coating formula recently, then my complaint is not so justified." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliot Posted February 25, 2002 Share Posted February 25, 2002 I agree about the RF patch flare (I use an M4P, which has essentially the same VF as M6), but it's not a huge problem. The flare only manifests itself occasionally, and I can usually get around it by slightly reaining the camera, It's not as if this were a huge deal. I think the flare is due, in part, to a condenser lens they removed some time during the tenure of the M4-2 (apparently, to make room for the two extra frames 28/75 added in the M4P). <p> My guess is that if they continue producing the M6TTL (rather than just sell off units already made) they will include the improved VF. Leica does continue to add improvements to their M5 line even though they don't publicize it. An example is several improvements in the operation of the lightmeter, including increased low light sensitivity (now down to EV-2). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles barcellona www.bl Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 I've read other places that the condenser lens thing has little to do with the flare. I am hoping to come up with a litte test for this, when my M4-2 gets back from Sherry. <p> I'm wondering if techs can install the coated part(s) into the RF of the older camreas. Lets not stop at the M6TTL but all the way back to the M4-2 later production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_collier5 Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 I have had two M4-2 cameras. <p> My first was a late production with the new style of finder which has the cam plate for vertical alignment and the lens by the frameline masks removed. No flare at all, performed exactly like my M2. I sold that M4-2 to finance my M6TTL which introduced me to rangefinder flare. <p> My second M4-2 is a very early one with the old style screw to adjust vertical alignment and the lens in front of the frameline masks. It flares just like my M6TTL. <p> So what causes the flare? Beats me but it is not the missing lens or modifications to accomodate the M6 meter display. <p> What do I do about rangefinder flare? I centre my eye in the finder and it disappears. It used to bother me but now I do not even notice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolo Posted February 26, 2002 Share Posted February 26, 2002 I had a brief e-mail exchange today with Erwin Puts on this issue. He said that what I thought was coating on the viewfinder windows of the M6/M6TTL was actually reflections from coating on the INTERNAL elements of the viewfinder/rangefinder mechanism. The M7 has coating on the external window panes. <p> Erwin, however, has not responded so far to my follow up question, which was: <p> One last question about the viewfinder/rangefinder, coatings, etc. (I'm sorry, but the rangefinder flare in the M6 has become one of my minor obsessions, since it is a MAJOR annoyance). I can essentially eliminate the rangefinder flare on my M6 and my M6TTL's (.58 and .85) by placing a piece of surgical tape over the illuminator panel. How does coating the external viewfinder optics decrease or eliminate rangefinder flare if, in my experience, the flare is caused by, or at least greatly exacerbated by, the illumination system? <p> Anyone care to take a crack at that one? <p> I suspect (and I hope to find out soon by looking through one) that the M7 flares in the same way as the M6/M6TTL. If, in fact, the new coatings have alleviated/eliminated the problem, the next question will be: how much will it cost to have the new coated windows installed in my cameras? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vc2 Posted February 27, 2002 Author Share Posted February 27, 2002 Leica's Francis Pilet sent an email to me as follows, <p> Quote <p> A subsequent coating of the M6 viewfinder has not been yet scheduled. Basically it is possible, but shouldn't be cheap! <p> Furthes specs on the LEICA M7 on our homepage www.leica-camera.com <p> Mit freundlichen Grüssen / Kind regards / Salutations / Saludos / Distinti saluti <p> Francis Pilet <p> Leica Camera AG Tel.: +49 6442 208 423 Fax. +49 6442 208 425 Francis.Pilet@leica-camera.com <p> Unquote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ned_learned Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 For those of you who are bothered by the uncoated viewfinders on all the prevoius Ms try this: http;//www.konermann.net. Lutz has a great solution called The shade. I have one on each of my Ms and it does the trick. Focusing is not impaired even when focusing the Noctilux in VERY dim light. Check out the slide as well. Ned learned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vc2 Posted February 27, 2002 Author Share Posted February 27, 2002 Here comes Mr. Puts answer: <p> Quote The coating is on the plane window glass in the front of the cameras. If such glass is becoming available it can be put on the M6/TTL versions. The full solution to the flare problem has not yet found. The coating is part of the answer, but more is needed before the problem is tackled. <p> Erwin Unquote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolo Posted February 27, 2002 Share Posted February 27, 2002 "The full solution to the flare problem has not yet found. The coating is part of the answer, but more is needed before the problem is tackled." <p> Thought so. <p> If they hadn't messed with the M4 viewfinder/rangefinder mechanism in the first place, there wouldn't be a problem to tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucien1 Posted March 1, 2002 Share Posted March 1, 2002 The new coating on the M7's finder and rangefinder windows is really visible. <p> When one compare the M7 and M6TTL, the M7 windows are more green. It's more obvious on the silvered part of the finder window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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