A few questions for the knowledge needy!

[a_k21]

I am an MF beginner and need a few things to get me on the right track:

 

-Good, reputable MF camera dealers (online or off)

-The average price of a Mamiya 7 with 80mm 2.8 ; Mamiya 645 with same lens ;

Rolleiflex SL66 ; Hass 500C/M with 80mm 2.8 lens. *I've combed through Ebay but

don't trust them entirely...

-The gear I would need to have a fully functioning kit (for the above mentioned

models). Once again, the estimated price of said kit.

-Any useful tidbits/info/common sense that I should be armed with when entering

the MF world. And the greedy marketplace, only too happy when dealing with a

newbie like me!

-The cost of film monthly/yearly if possible.

-And the cost of maintaining a dark room.

 

Plus a few words on life with an MF camera, if it isn't too much to ask!

 

I'm 18 and very much a student. Very much without money, if you follow my drift.

So I'm trying to take all the right steps in picking the RIGHT camera/lens combo

that will not disappoint me...

Oh--I can't buy anything over 1000$. Even that is stretching it...

I'm aiming for 700$ or below while maintaining quality. How realistic are these

expectations?

 

Any other camera model suggestions are very welcome.

[joobass]

In the time of the digitals, film camera has become vary cheep, and with $700 ~ 1000 yoou can gat very good TLR's in good conditions on the e-bay, you can even gat a rolleiflex with that price. for 100 ~ 200 you can get a Yashica TLR, a very good camera for a starter.

Start with these, get used to or get the hang of MF pictures and may be 5 ~ 7 yrs later get the camera you like such as new Rolleiflex or the hassy, or you go with your Yashica for life(They are good cameras too).

[dave_s]

What SHJ said. Spend $200 on a good TLR, maybe a late Rolleicord or a Mamiya 330. Spend the rest on film, chemistry, and travel.

[joobass]

I think Dave made a correct Interpretation on what I have said.

Well at least its the point.

[nick_wilson2]

Hmmm, my 2 cents for most of these posts is that one should really think about what type of photography you want to be doing, the portability etc. The problem is that you are asking after SLRs versus rangefinders, square versus rectangular format etc. There are apples and oranges here.

 

But perhaps the best idea is start with a cheap TLR to get a flavour of it, as the above posters say, if you really don't know or have 35mm experience.

 

But maybe if you work out what you want and are set on an SLR system, then I would aim for a solid old body, old standard lens and back in the brand of your choice.

 

You probably could get a Hasselblad 500C or even C/M for your budget(try for a lens with T* coating at least). Advantage: all mechanical!

 

Or a Bronica or perhaps even a big Mamiya RB might be possible too. I doubt an SL66 or a Mamiya 7!!

 

The advantage of beginning a system is that you have a back up even if you get a newer body at a later stage. But you have to know what you want.

 

Failing that, a 6x45 Bronica or Mamiya as a starter won't be too crippling a cost if you want a cheap SLR. You do get an advantage working with 6x45 negs over 35mm in the darkroom, but obviously less than 6x6, 6x7, 6x9 etc. Cheaper, too.

 

Some of your other questions are like asking the length of a piece of string, eg the cost of film will depend on how much you shoot. The same with a darkroom, although it is now cheap to set up if you find someone dumping their darkroom.

 

I wish you well. An 18 year old getting into film MF. Ripper!

[kparratt]

My first medium format was a TLR, and I don't regret it one bit. It was one of the Yashica models with crisp lens, and I used it through my student years and beyond, until I really had the need, and appreciated the facilty of a modular SLR. Whilst in those days I couldn't afford a Mamiya C330, because they were still in production and a popular professional camera, they are now very affordable.

 

Buying a top condition Rolleiflex TLR, one is often in competion with collectors. On the other hand, a Mamiya C330, or C220 provides for interchangable lenses, which the Rollei doesn't, and is not burdened with the price of a status symbol.

 

Back to the "facilty of a modular SLR" .. this always means loads of kit and the loss of simplicity, and forever desiring the accessories you havn't got, and wishing you had the money for them.

 

Keep it simple and focus on what there is to learn about B&W film. The only camera accessories you need to think about with a basic TLR are filters, an incident light meter (which you will keep always) and perhaps a light-weight tripod. Then you're in business.

 

The darkroom kit is the thing to set up, and yes it is cheap now.

 

So, together with Dave Sims and Suk Hyun Joo, keep it simple and "Spend the rest on film, chemistry, and travel."

 

Kevin, Oslo.

[kparratt]

Further discussions on TLR vs SLR yesterday at: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00KgJ9

[paulh]

It depends a little on what sort of shooting you want to do. You should also consider which format you want - 645, 6x6, 6x7, 6x8 or 6x9. Then consider whether you want an SLR, TLR or rangefinder.

 

6x6 probably offers the best compromise between negative size and manageable camera weight. You can shoot square (as I prefer), or crop it any way you like.

 

For your budget, you might like to look at a Mamiya C220/C330 TLR. Good solid dependable cameras, and unusually for a TLR they offer interchangeable lenses (55mm to 250mm). If you are after an SLR, then the Bronica SQ-A/B offers great value for money, and the lenses and other accessories are well priced too. If you do go with a system camera, be sure to check out the prices of extra lenses and accessories first - the camera and normal lens may be well priced, but the extras will kill your wallet!

 

You could go down the route of a fixed lens camera, and force yourself to learn to use that well, constraining yourself to spending on film & developing rather than lenses and other accessories ;-) In that case, a serviced Rolleiflex (avoiding the collector favourites) or YashicaMat would serve you well.

 

Good luck & enjoy the world of MF!

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

How large do you expect to print?

 

I produce excellent 11x14 prints from 645 negatives and even 16x20 is very good (though I prefer 4x5 when printing larger sizes). Also what do you intend to shoot? Will you shoot in the studio or will you carry? If you carry, opt for either 645 or 66.

 

As for dealers - keh.com is excellent.

[paul ron]

I have to say if you are shopping for a first camera, look into a 645 like the ETRS. It's small (relative term) wonderful street machine as well as a great preformer. You'll find em selling cheap adn lenses are great.

 

Now if you are on a real tight budget, get a Yashica for under a $100 in working condition and have a blast with it.

 

Then there are the older folders that are fun pocket cameras with great lenses if you can find em with a tessar lens. Sharp, small and still cheap enough not to break your budget. BUT... you really have to scrutinize the folders carefully since they will aged, 40-60yrs old. Bellows, shutters n fungus are generally what you'll be looking out for. I smell em and can tell just how it was stored. Look for recently CLAed cameras if you wnat a reliable working camera unless you are willing to DIY, then you'll find cameras selling for $20 at flea markets. At that price it's worth DIY and lerning another great hobby, restoring cameras adn you'll be hooked in no time at all.

[kparratt]

Back to the TLR, here is a suggestion for a good start on a student's budget:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mamiya-C330-Medium-Format-TLR-with-80mm-Lens_W0QQitemZ320101196018QQihZ011QQcategoryZ3352QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

[randall ellis]

I picked up an M645 (Mamiya) system with 4 lenses, winders, prism and waist finder, grips, hoods, a couple of screens, etc. for under your $700 budget, but not all medium format systems will allow you that much gear for that price. You can get a good idea of what reliable equipment of many different types and brands cost by going to KEH.com. I've dealt with them many times and have never had anything but stellar service and goods that were in far better than described if you decide to buy from them.

 

I really like the 6x4.5 system that I have, much more than anything else that I have used (except my 4x5 and 8x10 field cameras). As the others have stated, it depends quite a lot on the type of photography you will be doing. Think about what you will be doing and make sure that what you buy will work well for that type of shooting. Always keep in mind that your choice of camera can either hinder your efforts or help them, depending on how well you match the tool to the job, so spend some time on though before jumping out and buying something with a high cool factor that may not be well suited for what you want to do with it. The camera is a tool, nothing more - it will not help you make more powerful photographs, but it can make it easier for you to make them, or it can be yet another obstacle in your way.

 

- Randy

[lauren_macintosh]

Here go to this site[http://www.certo6.com/index.html] and do some reading and enjoy yourself and chances are you will end up with a TLR or A folder 6x6 or 6x9 both will give good blow ups 16x20 but this depends on the film you use also: good luck and have fun:\\Lauren MacIntosh

[sumo_kun]

Well, as mentioned before, it all depends on what you want to do!

Different subjects require different cameras.

 

I'm mainly a landscape guy so when I started out in MF, I got me a Pentax 67II. I was a student too. It was not cheap. In fact I got it instead of buying a new computer. Great camera and it did everything I wanted, until I looked at 4x5...

 

Anyway, there are a lot of things to consider for your first camera. EVERYONE reccommends an old TLR as a starter but although it can be good for some things, its not an all round camera. They are cheap and have good quality etc but they are awkward to use as a first camera. Its definitely a good idea to get one later on though. I did and love mine but I don't think I would have liked MF as much if it was my first camera. The problem with a TLR for me is that they just don't handle well, especially if you are used to 135. Once you get used to MF though they are OK. They're good for hand held work like documentary photography and they are more portable than most. Its just that for a first camera, they might be a bit too fiddly to use.

 

Rangefinders are good. They're cheap, light and can do most things. Mamiya 7s are probably out of you budget though so Bronicas and Fujis are what's left. They have good optics and are great starter cameras but they aren't for you if you want to learn everything about MF. They won't let you look at a ground glass screen and they make things so simple that they will feel like a 135 camera. As an all round camera rangefinders are good though.

 

SLRs are big. Especially 67 ones. They usually require a tripod and although they can be handheld, they won't produce the best quality. But they really do everything you could want, just like their 135 counterparts. Most have big lens selections and all sorts of accessories. For landscape, you really do want an SLR. Thats why I got the P67II.

 

So, which camera would I reccommend? I would go for a used Pentax 6x7. The older ones are going for cheaps now and usually come with a lens. They handle great and are tough. But they really do require a tripod to get the best out of them.

 

In any case, whatever camera you do get, you will want a light meter at some point. Most MF cameras have iffy ones built in. A sturdy tripod would be nice to have too if you plan to do work that needs one.

 

Since you asked about darkrooms, I assume you want to do B+W work? Good choice! You will need to factor in the cost of a darkroom if you want your own. An enlarger will eat up most of your money. I'd say $100-200. Then the enlarger lens will eat a good chunk too. Probably around $100. But the rest is cheap. You could probably get all the rest for less than $100. Trays, developing tanks, tongs, chemicals etc. It all depends on your luck though. Printing and developing is relatively cheap. The paper is probably what costs me the most. Good FB paper costs quite a bit. But you can start with RC stuff. I didn't but hey, everyone's different. Film cost for B+W are minimal. I can get a roll of B+W for about 300 yen. That's about $3. With MF, you won't be shooting like crazy so its very economical. In a year, I shoot probably 25 rolls or so at max now. In my peak usage days, I would shoot about 50 or so maybe. I didn't shoot much. So film is cheap.

 

Anyway, enjoy MF!