Bronica mirror position for shooting problem?

[reisenberger]

Have just acquired a Bronica SQ-Ai second hand; everything makes sense to me

except one aspect.

 

Is it the case that, whatever mirror lock-up setting you have, the mirror will

always fold away (up) when you turn the film crank enough that the shutter is

cocked? This is happening to me - every time I wind the film crank sufficiently

that the shutter is cocked, the mirror jumps up, whatever the mirror lock-up

lever is set at.

 

In other words: Do you have to make your composition thru the finder with the

film 'not quite advanced fully' (while the mirror is still down), then advance

the film crank to fully cock the shutter (at which point mirror jumps up and you

can no longer see the viewfinder image), before shooting? Is that normal?

 

Or should the mirror stay down when the shutter is fully cocked? (on N or indeed

other mirror lever settings) - ie only lift and return when you actually fire

the shutter?

 

I am curious if there is any fault with the model I have or if this is the

standard behaviour.

 

Another aspect of the model I have acquired that seems strange to me is that

there is no resistance when moving the mirror lock-up lever. When moving the

mirror lock-up lever between N, S and C, there is very little resistance and the

mirror itself does not move. Does that sound right or normal?

 

If in some way I am operating the camera wrongly - or if it is stuck in some

mechanical loop that it can be released from with a certain operation - I would

be grateful to know - but also wonder if this is a fault.

 

The sequence I am experiencing is that with the shutter cocked, the mirror is

permanently up (so I cannot compose a shot with the shutter cocked). After

shooting, as I wind forward, the mirror returns to position, and I get what is

(what I _assume is) a faithful 6x6 view through the lens... *but*, the mirror

stays in this position only while the shutter is not quite cocked. At this

stage the shutter will not fire. As soon as I wind on such that the shutter is

cocked - such that the shutter would fire - the mirror jumps up with a loud clap

and I have no viewfinder view. ??

 

Many thanks for all help!

[david_henderson]

The behaviour you describe is not usual- and indicates a fault in the camera. You should be able to look through the finder with the camera fully wound unless you have activated mirror lock up. It would seem remarkably perverse to make a camera so that you can't see what you're taking and of course since you can't change lenses till the camera is fully wound composition could get really random.

 

Moving the MLU switch from N to S when the camera is fully wound should make quite a noise because the mirror should go up. I'd imagine that the reason your mirror doesn't go up is that it already is up. Even the move from S to C should meet with some slight resistance and an audible click.

 

You are probably right to connect these two things and IMO the camera needs technical help. You might well be right also to think about whether the person or organisation selling you the camera knew about the problem or ought to have done.

[rickvivian]

Here's an extract from the manual. I've had the problem of the functions appearing to be out of sync and have rectified it by cycling through the manual instructions several times until correct function resumes. Pay particular attention to the paragraph that commences with "To return to normal shooting with the mirror locked up in the continuous mode". I have found this to be the key to the dilemma.

 

"The mirror lock-up switch lever has three settings, N, S and C,

with the lever rotated to set N (normal) to the index for shooting

without locking up the mirror, S (single frame) and C (continuous) for

shooting with the mirror locked up.

* When shooting with mirror locked up, always use Manual mode when

the AE Prism Finder S is attached.

 

For shooting with the mirror locked-up, first cock the shutter.

Then, rotate the mirror lock-up lever in the arrow-indicated direction

and coincide S or C to the index. The lens shutter will close completely and the reflex mirror and film safety plate will swing up.

 

The shutter will be released when the shutter release button or

cable release is depressed.

 

For multiple Exposures with Mirror Lock-Up:

When S is set to the index with the mirror lock-up switch lever, the

lever will automatically return to N, with the next film advancing and

shutter cocking action. And, following shots will be normal.

a. Advance the film and cock the shutter. In this case, a single exposure will be wasted.

 

To return to normal shooting with the mirror locked up in the continuous mode, rotate the mirror lock-up switch lever and set S or N to the index, then cock the shutter. When shooting is suspended, after mirror lock-up in the S or C mode, by rotating the mirror lock-up switch lever to N, one of the following actions will take place-

1. Shutter will be released, or

2. Shutter will not be released; furthermore, it will not be possible to press the shutter release button.

* In order to prevent the above, shooting should be continued, in the

following manner;

When C is set to the index with the mirror lock-up switch lever, the

lever will not return to N with the next film advancing and shutter

cocking action. Therefore, shooting with the mirror locked-up will be

possible any number of times.

* When the film winding crank is revolved, after all 12 or 24 exposures, film winding only in the normal manner, will not take place, but the shutter will be released with the mirror locked up, any number of times. Therefore, always return the mirror lock-up switch lever to N after the last 12th or 24th exposure, and wind the film in the normal manner.

 

Cover the lens and take one blank exposure, as follows: First, return

the mirror lock-up switch lever to N setting. Then, use the multiple

exposure lever and expose the frame. Finally, after exposing the

frame, reverse the multiple exposure lever. c. Utilize film back interchangeability and expose the frame after removing the film back from the main body. Then, continue shooting, according to the preceding paragraph."

 

Happy shooting!

[reisenberger]

David, Rick: Many thanks for both of your responses.

 

Rick: Yes, I was puzzling over that procedure in the manual and have tried it several times to no avail, both with and without film in. However, because of the below (see below), I am coming to the conclusion the levers are failing to operate the functions at all, rather than the functions just being out of sync.

 

Most conclusively, I have taken the camera to another camera store this morning who deal regularly in this kind of item. They point out in fact that neither the mirror lock-up lever or the multiple exposure lever are working - both should click between positions, feel resistance and move items internally; neither do.

 

Many thanks for your help.

[paul ron]

Did you mount the lens properly? If you put an uncocked lens on a cocked body or visa versa it will cause problems as well. Remove the lens and check to see it is in synch with the body?

[reisenberger]

Hi Paul. Thanks for that. Yes, I think the lens is aligned properly. The alignment marks/position lines up as I think it should, and the shutter does fire to whatever exposure is set, so from that I am assuming the lens is aligned fine. It seems to be the mirror and crank synchronisation that is all wrong.

 

Many thanks, though, for all and any suggestions.

Dylan

[paul ron]

It's not an alignment problem I am refering to. With the lens off the camera, is the lens' shutter cocked? With the lens off the camera is the body cocked? Now that both the lens and the body are cocked, put the cocked lens back on the cocked body. See if that cures your problem?

 

If youy mount an uncocked lens on a cocked body or visa versa it will be out of synch and can cause problems.

[david_henderson]

I've used Bronicas for ten years - I've never yet checked whether a lens is cocked before I put it on the body. It doesn't matter. You can't get a lens off unless the camera is wound on. You can put a lens on whether the body is fully wound on or not- all you have to do is carry on winding to complete the cycle.

[paul ron]

But tell me if someone fired the lens while off the body, would that cause an out of synch condition? Almost every MF camera with shutter in the lens has to be put on the body cocked with the body cocked as well. If you don't do that, either the lens gets locked on teh body, the camera gets locked up, or it shows symptoms similar to what this fellow is experiancing, out of synch mirror.