good middle ground bt rebel XTi and D5?

[mindy_van_hecke]

I'm looking at a new camera since my olympus e-volt 330 was stolen & dont want

to have the same frustrations I had with the e-volt. Would call myself a newbie

despite 3 classes & 2 years of shooting, just for sheer lack of numbers of

shots. I really want the D5- looks like it solves all my frustrations but Im

hoping to find a middle ground with something not as cheap as the Rebel but not

the D5$. Maybe around $1500-2000? From what I read the Rebel XTi will leave my

frustrated since it doesnt take good photos in low light (I take alot of low

light indoor shots) the crop factor and the lack of image stabilization. I also

felt like the e-volt took to long to get the shot off, because of my lack of

experience I dont know if it was the autofocus was slow or what..

 

So my questions are:

1. Is the crop factor that big of a deal or can I just learn to take more into

the picture to compensate mentally for the crop that will occur?

2.Darkness and blurriness indoors is my main frustration, if I get a really good

lens on the rebel will it fix this or will I still be frustrated?

3. Is there another camera more around $1500-2000 that will give me better low

light photos, Image stabilization, fast shooting (autofocus?) and a good system?

I want the D5 but if I get it I wont be able to afford great lenses and I know

how important that is.

4.I would also like RGB metering, depth of field preview, and good

resolution/image quality because I do enlargements of the portraits I take quite

a bit.

 

Im sorry for the dumb question but I have read up so much and just cant seem to

sort it all out and find the right camera! I really really appreciate your input.

[michael j hoffman]

The 30D may suit your needs nicely. All else being equal, the same size sensor given fewer pixels will have less apparent noise in low light/high ISO setting situations. The XTi has 10 megapixels and the 30D has 8 megapixels. My guess would be that images shot at high ISO in low light are more free from noise with the 30D. Image stabilization in the Canon line-up is 100% lens dependent, as the IS mechanism is in the lens body and not the camera body. Auto-focus is probably better on the 30D, and the viewfinder of the 30D is certainly much better than the one on the XTi. BTW, you don't have to "compensate mentally" for the crop factor. These are still SLR's and, as such, WYSIWYG pretty much applies to any SLR regardless of sensor/film size.

 

Michael J Hoffman

[sheryl_bury_michals]

I would suggest then the 30D - seems to fit your needs - it runs about $1400, but some have lens packages built in, so you can get a kit for about $1500, leaving you room to get an extra lens. I believe the 30D is 5 fps - I have a 10d and 30D and the 30D is light years faster than the 10D in terms of getting action shots.

 

go to a camera store and test one out - you won't know if it's for you until you do.

 

sheryl

[brucecyr]

Mindy,

 

Good idea asking here -- if sounds like you've filtered and retained just enough info to make you a good target for an unscrupulous sales person :-)

 

The Canon Digital Rebel XTi takes better lowlight pictures than most non-Canon DSLRs because its Canon-only sensor is more sophisticated and provides a relatively less noisy high ISO speeds -- 800 and 1600.

 

However, it doesn't have built-in sensor stabilization. Canon so far has opted for the more capable lens-based stabilization systems, but that means you have to buy lenses with that capability.

 

Unless you're willing to spring for IS (=image stabilized) or VR (=Nikon's vibration reduction) lenses, then I suggest you might want to consider DSLRS with sensor stabilization, like the Pentax K10D:

 

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Pentax/pentax_k10d.asp

 

or the Sony DSLR A100:

 

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Sony/sony_dslra100.asp

 

HTH

[rogerleekam]

XTi & EF-S 17-55 2.8 would do extremely well in low light. The lens is expensive but one of Canon's best made lenses. I use the EF-S 17-85 which seems to work well, but haven't as yet done much low-light work.

[mindy_van_hecke]

Bruce and all- Darkness and blurriness indoors is my main frustration, if I get a really good lens on the rebel will it fix this or will I still be frustrated? I just keep reading that XTi is bad in low light and produce dark and blurry pics- have you guys found this to be true? Do you think those people just are not using the right lens?

 

thanks so much! Nice to know that I dont need to worry about IS since I get it in the lenses and the 5fps looks great on the 30d.

[images_in_light_north_west]

You can get a 30D and a 70-200 f2.8L IS for about $3000

[mike_young1]

The only camera I have is the xti. I take hundreds of pictures both outside and inside without a flash. I have gotten a canon 50mm 1.4 lense and none of my correctly shot pictures are one bit dark or blurry. I suggest that where ever you got that info was wrong. You can get the xti plus a 50mm 1.4 for under 1000 or with a 50mm 1.8 for under 800 and then add additional lenses as you need.

good luck

[nolefan32]

Your specific questions, one at a time.

 

"1. Is the crop factor that big of a deal or can I just learn to take more into the picture to compensate mentally for the crop that will occur?"

 

If I'm reading this question correctly, I'm thinking your issue with crop factor is a non-issue. Reason being, you don't have to crop, even mentally. The image you see through the viewfinder is near about what you'll shoot; it's been adjusted to match the sensor's crop factor.

 

"2.Darkness and blurriness indoors is my main frustration, if I get a really good lens on the rebel will it fix this or will I still be frustrated?"

 

That can very well be an issue even with the best lenses. You can spend the money to get lenses with very high light sensitivity (like an f2.8 or better), or IS/VR, but you still may have times that a flash will be your only answer. You can also push the ISO up and then adjust for the noise in PhotoShop. Or a combination of all of the above. Do know that the Rebel does quite well under low light, just not as good as it's more expensive full-frame big brothers.

 

"3. Is there another camera more around $1500-2000 that will give me better low light photos, Image stabilization, fast shooting (autofocus?) and a good system? I want the D5 but if I get it I wont be able to afford great lenses and I know how important that is."

 

The 30D falls between the Rebel XTi and the full-frame 5D. The 30D runs about $1100 by itself, with a good quality 28-135mm IS lens, it's $1500. None of the Canon or Nikon bodies come with IS, that's a function in the lenses and then only the lenses that are identified as having it (for Canon, it's IS, for Nikon, it's VR, but it's the same thing). Likewise fast focusing is a function more of the lens than the camera. The 30D is nearly identical to the Rebel XT (the XTi's predecessor) in regards to electronics, so it's an 8MP body instead of a 10MP like the XTi, but it's a much more solid body. The 5D is actually built in the 30D's frame, though slightly larger to accommodate the 5D's larger sensor.

 

"4.I would also like RGB metering, depth of field preview, and good resolution/image quality because I do enlargements of the portraits I take quite a bit."

 

FYI, depending on how large you plan to regularly enlarge your images, most of the bodies out there will meet all your requirements. If you're planning on enlarging to mostly 8x10 at the upper end, anything with 6MP or better will be plenty sharp; 8x10 or below, you can have a 6MP image or a 16MP image, you really won't see a difference. And all of the Canon and Nikon bodies currently on the market have 6MP or higher.

[milton-chris]

I have a pair of XTi's and one of them always has the 85mm f/1.8 on it - no problem at all shooting bands in dark venues with very little lighting - even manage to get away with 400 or 800 ISO.

[m_barbu1]

<ol><li>You can learn to compensate, if your preference is to shoot at 16mm or wider, and you need a lens as fast as f/2.8, you'll likely want the 5D (NOTE: it's 5D, not D5 -- at least if you're talking about the Canon EOS digital SLR camera body).

</li><li>You need more than a really good lens. You need a fast lens (f/2.8 is the slowest you'll want). Look for lenses that have a constant maximum aperture of f/2.8 or wider (smaller number).</li><li>I would suggest finding a used Digital Rebel XT (not XTi) and put the rest of the money into fast lenses. It's not my favorite body -- I much prefer the 20D/30D. However, from your description, that is not your primary concern.</li><li>RGB metering? Do you mean RGB Histogram? Depth of field preview is not that useful on non-full frame bodies, because the viewfinder is so small. The Digital Rebel XT, XTi and 20D or 30D all have comparable resolutions. The XTi has an additional 2 Megapixels, but in reality, that's not as big as it sounds. The jump from 6 Megapixels to 8 makes a bigger difference than from 8 to 10, even though it appears that it's an increment of 2 Megapixels.</li></ol>

[ekoppel]

Why not go for a 20D? You can still find them new. It's just about the same as the 30D except a smaller LCD. You'll end up saving about $300 which you can put towards a nice lens.

[jim_larson1]

It is very narrow to narrow this down in the Canon line.

 

XT - (old - but available). Basic 8mp dSLR.

 

XTi - Basic 10mp dSLR. Better Auto Focus and better sensor than XT. Same body.

 

20D - (out of product, but you can find them). Same sensor (more or less) as the XT. Same Autofocus as XTi. Much better body (bigger, better built)

 

30D - Replaced 20D. Has bigger LCD (yawn). Same sensor and autofocus as 20D (sensor same as XT, Autofocus same as XTi). Same body as 20D.

 

5D. Same as the 30D, except for the full frame sensor, which produces a 12mp image.

 

 

Try the XTi in the store. If you like it. . buy it along with the 17-85/image stabilized lens. Also buy a 430EX flash. You really don't need anything better.

[jimstrutz]

For lots of low light indoor shots without flash I would recommend the Canon 17-55 f/2.8 IS, with either the Rebel XT, Rebel XTi, or 30D. Image quality will about the same with any of them, but autofocus will be faster with the last three.

 

Even better than the f/2.8 lens would be some fast prime lenses, like the 35mm f/2, but I prefer zooms for most things, so that's what I recommend.

 

The 5D is even better in low light than these other canons, but you need a very good lens to make the most of it. Otherwise it's not worth getting. Tamron's 28-70 f/2.8 is pretty good, and only costs a few hundred bucks, so that is an option. Still this package sells for more than $1000 more than the XTi/17-55 f/2.8 IS combo, and it doesn't include the image stabilization of the 17-55.

[alvin_hear]

I too use the Xti and 50/1.4 ( which is like a 80mm 1.4 lens on the Xti ). I am pretty demanding with my quality - and I am VERY pleased with my 8.5 x 11 inch prints...16x20's are pretty good too, but usually if I intend to go that big, a med format camera takes over. I wouldnt hesitate buying the Xti. And for the complaining about the Xti's viewfinder, there is an inexpensive way to upgrade the finder, see <a href="http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1031&thread=20740488">this link</a> and yes, I bought this Nikon magnifier and it DOES improve the Canon Xti's finder.

 

<p>

AH

[gdanmitchell]

<p><i>1. Is the crop factor that big of a deal or can I just learn to take more into the

picture to compensate mentally for the crop that will occur? </i></p>

 

<p>Crop or full frame, you'll be looking through a viewfinder that will show you what the

sensor will capture. (Literalists will point out that it is not <i>exactly</i> the same, but it

is close enough to be taken to be such for practical purposes.) Some will also point out

that the viewfinder image itself is perhaps not as bright and large on crop sensor cameras

as it is on full frame cameras, but this will not affect the image captured by the camera.

 

<p>Crop factor is primarily relevant in two ways:

 

<ul>

<li>The crop sensor is smaller. Think of only capturing the central portion of a 35mm film

image. A sensor providing a given number of photosites (e.g. number of "megapixels") will

have smaller photosites. There are some possible effects on image quality that are

probably not tremendously significant to you at this point.</li>

<li>To get the same field of view on a crop sensor camera that you would get on a full

frame camera, you'll use shorter focal length lenses on the crop sensor camera. If you

think of a 50mm lens as producing a "normal" image on 35mm/full-frame, a 31.25mm

lens would produce the same "normal" image on the 400D/XTi, 350D/XT, 20D, 30D

cameras.</li>

</ul>

 

<p><i>2.Darkness and blurriness indoors is my main frustration, if I get a really good

lens on the rebel will it fix this or will I still be frustrated? </i></p>

 

<p>If by darkness you mean that you get images that are too dark, this is more likely an

exposure issue than a camera/lens issue. Of course, lenses with larger maximum

apertures and/or image stabilization will help get you to wide enough apertures and fast

enough shutter speeds in low light. Any of these cameras are pretty much equal in this

regard.

 

<p>If you are failing to get autofocus in low light, this could be a combination of

technique, low contrast subject. Some of the more expensive bodies can do a bit better

with f/2.8 and larger aperture lenses in the most marginal situations.

 

<p><i>3. Is there another camera more around $1500-2000 that will give me better low

light photos, Image stabilization, fast shooting (autofocus?) and a good system? I want the

D5 but if I get it I wont be able to afford great lenses and I know how important that is.

</i></p>

 

<p>There is currently no Canon camera in that price range. You can find used 5D bodies

for about $2000 or slightly higher, and they can be a good deal if you get a good one. The

30D costs less than this, and the price of the 400D/XTi is even lower.

 

<p>Let me take your specific issues one by one:

 

<ul>

<li><b>better low light photos</b> - This is largely a function of the aperture of the

lens (along with IS). As such there is little difference between the 30D and the 400D/XTi,

which have the same autofocus system and use the same lenses. I feel that the 5D can

produce somewhat cleaner images in low light, mainly because it seems to have a bit less

noise at higher ISO values. But in most cases the difference is not gigantic.</li>

<li><b>Image stabilization</b> - Image stabilization is a feature of Canon <i>lenses

</i>, not bodies. There is essentially no differences among the bodies in this regard.

(Though you may have more money left over to spend on expensive IS lenses if you reduce

the amount you spend on the body...)</li>

<li><b>fast shooting (autofocus?)</b> - "Fast shooting" can mean different things. If

you really only refer to AF, keep in mind that the 30D and the 400D/XTi have the same AF

system. One difference between the two (though it is not an autofocus issue) is that the

30D burst mode is 5 frames per second (5fps) while the 400D/XTI is 3fps. If this

difference is an issue for you that could be significant. For some people it is, for many it

isn't a make or break issue.</li>

<li><b>a good system</b> - Not sure what you mean by this, but all three of these are

fine cameras.</li>

</ul>

 

<p><i>4.I would also like RGB metering, depth of field preview, and good resolution/

image quality because I do enlargements of the portraits I take quite a bit.</i></p>

 

<ul>

<li><b>RGB metering</b> - Again, not sure what you mean by "rgb metering." Are you

asking whether the histogram display shows the separate color channels? I know that the

5D does, but I'm afraid I don't know the answer for the other two.</li>

<li><b>depth of field preview</b> - All three have this feature.</li>

<li><b>good resolution/image quality</b> - This is relative. All three cameras (the two

crop sensor bodies and the full-frame body) have excellent resolution and image quality. I

have produced and sold very sharp 18 x 24 prints make on a 350D/XT. More important

that the camera/sensor in most cases are techniques such as using a tripod, etc. The 5D

can produce larger/more detailed prints, but we're talking about effects that probably

won't become very significant until 12x18 and larger.</li>

</ul>

 

<p>The XTi is an excellent camera, especially if you want to save some money and/or

purchase lenses that will help you with the low light photography. Unless you need the

faster 5fps burst mode of the 30D (it is 3fps on the 400D/XTi and 5D) or feel strongly

about the smaller body and slightly different interface on the XTi, this camera hits the

sweet spot of performance and price for many photographers. If you have a real need for

the somewhat improved image potential of the 5D over the quite good performance of the

crop sensor cameras, it <i>may</i> be worth spending the extra money on it - but not at

the expense of good lenses and other equipment like a good tripod.

 

<p>Good luck,

 

<p>Dan