30D vs XTI - noise issues

[tim_miller7]

I have read so many things regarding the XTI and 30D about noise; I am starting

to get confused. I have found the 30D compared to the 5D and other MFG brands,

and it looked really good comparatively, but never head to head with the XTI.

Does any one know which is better and why. I know - the XTI has more pixels, but

more isnt always better, especially if you arent cropping your pictures by huge

amounts then trying to print posters.

 

I shoot teenage gymnastics (low fluorescent lighting, dark back grounds and

corners, fast motion, long distances, no flash - all the hard things to do at

once) with an XTI coupled to a 70-200L 2.8, NON IS, manually set at 2.8 and

1/320 or faster, and 1600 ISO, with some pretty nice results - except for the

noise. I know, I can post process, but I was looking for less noise from the start.

 

Is the 30D the answer? Or should I just start to save for the 5D? Or should I

just shut up and deal with having to batch process almost 2000 images (yes, I

took 2000 pictures at the last meet; I only junked about 350; still more than

1500 is a lot to fiddle with). It would be nice to shoot in JPG and get it right

from the start.<div></div>

[m_barbu1]

Could you try that upload again, please?

[mike_earussi1]

1600 ISO with no noise is asking a lot from any camera and the Cannons are the best on the market right now. According to dpreview the 30D actually has more noise than the XTi so you'll probably just have to learn to live with it. (By the way, your link doesn't work). The 5D and the new Mark III may have incremental improvments in grain but probably not enough for what your hoping for.

 

Dpreview also has a few samples taken at 1600 that don't seem particularily grainy unless you enlarge them a lot (how big are your final print sizes?). Another possibly is that you are underexposing your shots. I shot some images under dim light at 400 ISO using a 300d and they were very grainy due to underexposure. Have you tested 1600 outside under bright light? That may be your prioblem. Instead of saving up for a new camera, you may need the 70-200 f2.8 instead.

[phoneguy]

The camera body isn't the issue. The lighting is. Can you use a flash or two? You'd be better off investing in a couple of strobes, and bounce them off of the ceiling if it is low. Or even a couple of speedlights with an STE-2.

 

I have 3 different EOS bodies, and the noise difference at 1600 isn't significant, in my experience. It's a digital world. Some post processing is going to be unavoidable.

[peterlyons]

In my experience flash isn't permitted shooting gymnastics.

Maybe you could try deliberately overexposing 2/3 stop. That'll keep your shadows more in

the "clean" brighter tones. You can always adjust down later. Maybe that'll give you less

noisy shadows?

[willhl]

The only problem is that to overexpose might bring the shutter speed down by too much, catch 22. Frequently indoors I've had to underexpose just to get a reasonable speed, definately not ideal, although I've spoken to some people who underexpose on ISO 800 and push in post processing rather than getting correct exposure at ISO 1600.

 

I have the 30D for indoor volleyball and from what I can see the only advantage of getting the 30D is 5fps, I wanted the frame rate so that's what I got. Well that's not entirely true, there is stuff like the layout of the controls, size, feel, but I think that is the main thing in terms of performance. Although, do you have ISO 3200 as an option on the XTi?

 

RAW Vs JPEG, obviously you are more likely to get the best result if you shoot RAW but I would suggest you play around with JPEG a bit, if you can get some good settings then you could save a lot of time. Obviously depends on what the output is for but give it a go, there might not be much difference if you get the inital exposure right.

[mike_earussi1]

Sorry Tim, you already have the f2.8. You just need more light or faster lenses. Can you do anthing with fixed lenses such as the 100 or 135 f2?

[mendel_leisk]

If you haven't found this site already, a good info source for all things Canon. Here's the XTi review, with a lot of comparisons to the 30D:

 

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-400D-Digital-Rebel-XTi-Review.aspx

 

There's a noise chart comparison in there, hard to really tell though.

 

I'm just in the process of buying a 30D for my wife: considered the XTi as well, but just *don't* like it's ergonmics and viewfinder. She's used a 20D before, and is comfortable with it.

[mark u]

f/2 or faster lenses will help. As pointed out above, perhaps you are underexposing your images, which will not help. However, if you aren't, then f/2 will allow you to shoot at 800 ISO and the same shutter speed, which will greatly improve the noise in your images (provided they are not underexposed). If you are underexposing, then the extra speed will allow you to avoid that at 1600 ISO. Consider 50mm f/1.4/1.8, 85mm f/1.8/1.2, 100mm f/2, and 135mm f/2.

[steve torelli]

If you're shooting indoor sports, f2.8 isn't all that fast. You need glass with greater max aperture. The 85 1.8 is a good short tele for indoors. It'll allow you to shoot at lower ISO. Good high ISO performance doesn't mean noiseless shots at 1600 ISO. That isn't likely with any camera. Other's tips about avoiding under-exposing are spot on. Good luck.

[tim_miller7]

Thanks to all for their opinions, looks like I am pretty much stuck. I have an 85/1.8 and a 50/1.4, neither gets me close enough, and the 70-200/2.8 is about as fast as I am going to get for the focal length. The only stone unturned would be IS, but because of my fast shutter speed, IS is pretty much negated, right? Is that a correct assumption that because I need to stop the action, IS doesn't get me anything except additional expense. I have an IS 17-85mm f4/5.6 and in low light, it doesnt handle motion well at all. Any last thoughts? Anyone?<div></div>

[robert lee]

There is (was) always the 200mm f1.8. And if you have to ask about price, ...

[chinoloco93]

Tim,

Sounds like Noise Ninja or Neat Image might be your only hope.

I shot 700 shots for parade and got noise at 1600 too and neat image helped quite a bit. I think there is a batch feature so you can apply a certain preset and have all the pictures process through a batch job which should help. I haven't done it but its called filtration queue on NI.

[m_barbu1]

For this application, I don't think you want the 5D. Since it's a full-frame camera, you're going to miss the additional 1.6x FoV crop you're currently getting. If there's no option to get brighter lights installed (or change the venue to one where this is the case), I'm afraid you're going to have to live with the options you have.