Tony Rowlett Posted March 18, 2007 Share Posted March 18, 2007 From now on all FS/WTB posts must be placed within the photo.net classifieds section. A new, special category has been created there called "Leica and Rangefinder" so that the trading community here can maintain that sense of community there. <p> The reasons for this change: <ol> <li>photo.net must be consistent with the management of its discussion forums. No other photo.net forum allows FS/WTB posts, so it is unfair and inconsistent that they be allowed here. <li>The high volume of FS/WTB ads currently being posted make the forum appear to be a flea market and not a discussion forum. <li>The photo.net classifieds section is far better suited for handling ads. </ol> Please give it a try: <a href="http://www.photo.net/gc/place-ad-2?domain_id=2&primary_category=Leica+and+Rangefinders">place an ad in the Leica and Rangefinder category</a> Backups? We don’t need no stinking ba #.’ _ , J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Rowlett Posted March 18, 2007 Author Share Posted March 18, 2007 All FS/WTB posts made up to now will be allowed to stay for their 30-day period. Backups? We don’t need no stinking ba #.’ _ , J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewt8 Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Any chance that you could put an RSS feed on the category? It is rather nice to see when things come up. I don't always remember to look... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakley Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 <i> photo.net must be consistent with the management of its discussion forums. No other photo.net forum allows FS/WTB posts, so it is unfair and inconsistent that they be allowed here.</i> <p> Should we infer that w/nw will be going away soon too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdnyc Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Another vote against the change. People seem happy with things the way they are. Why change? Never seemed like a flea market to me. In fact, I feel more secure doing business with the regulars here than with God-knows-who in the classified section or total strangers on eBay. To preserve the feeling of a discussion forum, why not just move FS posts to the bottom of the page immediately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forum_shopper Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 I agree with others that the ability to buy and sell reliably the very kinds of specialized and most uncommon equipment the forum is about is one of the biggest appeals of the forum. I own my core rangefinder equipment because I had the confidence to buy here and take advantage of very fair pricing. It was also my understanding that this privilege was grandfathered in, and by the logic of grandfather clauses that means permanently, not just until one of the original parties to the arrangement decides to change its mind. I find the classifieds here to be cumbersome, hard to search and unappealing. It is undesireable to have to monitor the classifieds in addition to reading this forum and several others. None of this is to suggest that all of the concerns of the moderators are invalid. Here are three suggestions I believe the moderators and site owner should consider in light of the widespread unhappiness this policy change will provoke. 1. Solicit volunteers to serve as "FS/WTT Moderators". These new moderators would take over responsibility for the posts we are discussing and relieve pressure on the regular moderators in this area. I am sure one or two reliable members would be willing to step up and volunteer in order to preserve an important forum service. 2. Limit FS/WTT posts to Fridays and expire them all on Mondays, with no right to repost any items that do not sell. This sort of thing has been done elsewhere, obviously. 3. Set up the classifieds so there is a specific rangefinder category (if one doesn't exist already) and enable an RSS feed for just that category. This would presumably be at no cost to Photo.net's resources once set up, and would enable web-savvy users to have all the benefits of the current setup, most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike dixon Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Here's a link to the Leica and Rangefinder section of the photo.net classifieds: http://www.photo.net/gc/domain-multi?sort_by=closing&category=Leica+and+Rangefinders Go there, bookmark it, and you'll only be a click away from seeing what gear is for sale, trade, or wanted to buy. Personally, I'm happy that "for sale" listings will no longer fill up half or more of the recent threads at the top of the forum. As Tony mentioned, the place was starting to look more like a flea market than a discussion forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike dixon Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 <i>Should we infer that w/nw will be going away soon too?</i><P> No, there are several forums that welcome w/nw threads. There's no plan to change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica ron Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 PN really needs to change the look and feel of the classifieds. This isn't a newspaper, where you have to cram all the words as close together to save column inches. Right now they are hard to read. Can you even attach an image ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi v Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 I am just trying to upload an ad, and I never had it so complicated, not even on eBay... Cannot go ahead unless I put a price in USD dollars, but I am based in the UK and we use British Pounds...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james mitchell dc Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Can we mention in a discussion post that we have one for sale in the classified section? For exapmle, someone solicits information on a particular lens that you have for sale in the proper place. Can you then mention that your ad exists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awahlster Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Well, Now this is no longer just the Leica forum but now includes all rangefinders as noted in the title. Now the idea that this forum should allow AD's only for what you can attach to a Leica camera and not say allow an ad for Canonet is unfair. The grandfather clause aside. Photo.net has to evolve has to adapt. Everyone screamed when the limits on uploads came in everyone screamed when the forum changed to be more inclusive of all RF photography. But the fact is this change is happening. adapt over come learn to make the change work for you. If you say that you never would have found such and such lens if it had been for sale in the classifieds then think about this All those people who don't bother with the Rangefinder forum never saw that ad either. So by making this change the potential number of buyers has skyrocketed. I for one see no down side and I have both bought and sold on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Rowlett Posted March 19, 2007 Author Share Posted March 19, 2007 The entire photo.net management team, from Philip Greenspun himself to all the moderators to little ol me, are behind this policy change. In the past I have been reluctant to make the change until there was some way to preserve the sense of community. Since the new category was created (just for us), I believe that is sufficient to meet that end. Also, there may be a way in the future to show the latest Leica/RF listings somewhere in our forum. (That is not a promise, just an idea that has come up.) I am not aware of a grandfather clause if it is being cited as an agreement. I am aware that photo.net has allowed FS/WTB posts in the Leica/RF forum because we carried that tradition over from the LUSENET site. It is perfectly reasonable to make adjustments like this in order to more reasonably conform with the design of photo.net. Look at it this way: FS/WTB posts are still allowed, they're just in a different area of the database. Once an ad is placed in the "Leica and Rangefinders" category, then a link will show up on the main listings page that shows the number of ads in that category. You can then bookmark that link so you can quickly scan Leica/RF listings. We have taken the underwear out of the sock drawer and given it its own drawer. Nothing more. Backups? We don’t need no stinking ba #.’ _ , J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forum_shopper Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Although I think this is a change for no good purpose that diminishes the forum as a community and as a resource, such is life. I'm reminded of what Emerson said about foolish consistency. Tony, can you please answer one quick question, yes or no if at all possible? Will Photo.net create an RSS feed specifically for the rangefinder category in the classifieds? I still hold out a little hope that this "reform" will go the way of some others announced here in the past with great fanfare. Remember the "zero tolerance policy"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Rowlett Posted March 19, 2007 Author Share Posted March 19, 2007 re; rss feeds. I'm not sure about this. Maybe it can be worked in. I will ask. Backups? We don’t need no stinking ba #.’ _ , J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Rowlett Posted March 19, 2007 Author Share Posted March 19, 2007 I already see nine ads in the Leica and Rangefinders classifieds category. I do not see how this isn't already working out. Backups? We don’t need no stinking ba #.’ _ , J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forum_shopper Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Thanks, Tony. Having an RSS feed will really improve the usefulness of that section of the classifieds for me and others of us who read the Leica forum frequently during the day but rarely if ever visit the classifieds for reasons already well expressed above. Gaining the ability to monitor FS items using a feed reader or with Live Bookmarks in Firefox would turn this change from a clear negative to a potential positive as far as I am concerned. However, I still worry that much desireable gear will simply stop showing up on Photo.net where our forum members can have first crack at it. It's too bad we may be effectively losing that little perk, as it was a nice one that many of us have benefitted from over the years. And really, knowing that the occasional smokin' deal shows up here from time to time is probably what leads some people to visit frequently instead of just sporadically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan flanders Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 BTW, the HTML button did not permit spacing for a new paragraph. Is this just a glitch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forum_shopper Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Here is another idea: set it up so FS posts start out in the FS section and never "intrude" on the main discussion. Delegate moderation of these to a new volunteer. I tried to take a "you can't fight City Hall" attitude in my prior posts, bowing to the fait accompli. But really, City Hall, there are numerous great points in this thread and I think you should continue to watch it develop with open minds, sleep on it and then reconsider the change Tony announced. If any part of the reason for this has to do with cluttering up the main forum with (often educational) FS threads, I have just suggested one easy solution. Ditto if any part of the reason has to do with the burden of work for Tony and the other moderators. Tony did not cite the moderation burden in his list of reasons above, but I have to think that is another reason he is pushing this change, because the moderation burden WAS cited when FS posts were restricted to Leica items. City Hall, how about pondering this decision a little more and then coming back with a win-win, "out of the park" solution that takes account of the many valid concerns and great points expressed in this thread? I'm sure most of us have total confidence that you can do this if you have the will to do so. And you should--make all the constituents happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshroot Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 The fact that improvements to the photo.net classifieds is a valid point. And I will add it to the list of "user interface" issues that I am working on. Anyone who has useful suggestions to that end is welcome to email and share them with me. However, if the topic of your email is "FS ads should be allowed in the Leica forum", you aren't going to get much of a reply. Josh Photo.net Director of Community Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica ron Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 How can you say that the for sale or for trade threads are the same when you CANNOT POST IMAGES OF THE ITEM in the Classified section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron_benner Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Can you post photos with your ad? If not, this is a significant change for the worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron_benner Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 How about changing the default appearance for the Leica classifieds page (what comes up when you click the link) to "sort by original posting date", rather than "sort by closing date", so that newly posted ads are, by default, at the top. As it stands now, I click the link that's on the Leica forum, and the oldest ad is on the top. Not a big deal now, but put 30 days worth of ads over there, and scrolling to the bottom, or always having to click "sort by original posting date" will get annoying. (And yes, I know I can bookmark the page as I want it, but that should be the layout by default.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshroot Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Aaron's post is a perfect example. That is something that I have often been annoyed with myself. However, PLEASE email suggestions to me. That will help me keep track of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob F. Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Josh: 1. "The fact that improvements to the photo.net classifieds is a valid point." This is not a sentence, nor is it clear what it was supposed to mean. Can you clarify? I think you left something out. 2. I believe you signed yourself "Director of Community." But I don't get a very warm community feeling from the attitude suggested by, "However, if the topic of your email is "FS ads should be allowed in the Leica forum", you aren't going to get much of a reply." Josh, do you really feel this way, or are you taking the path of least resistance to political pressure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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