From the begining, please

[uber_toby]

Hi

 

I'm fed up with my SLR's, I hate being forever asked if I'm a pap each time I pull out the "big boys" so I

want to go to Rangefinders, which seem to be a little more "pure"

 

My prob is that I don't seem to be able to get the info I need to make an informed purchase via ebay. I

really need to go back to basics.

 

I had a look at other forums but they all seemed a little "closed" & didn't offer the chance to ask the

"stupid" questions. So here I go.......

 

Are there diff versons of the M6?

Do I really need an M6 or will one of the older versions M3 etc do as a starter?

Lens mounts, how many are there & which will give me the best 2nd hand selection & quality?

Whats the difference between Sumicron, Elmar etc?

Whats with some of the body's I've seen being Leitz? They don't seem so expensive, is the quality a little

lower?

 

Thanks in advance for any advice given. If you know of any good Leica pages which may help me in my

quest I would be most greatful.

 

Sorry to ask so much, there is more but I'll hold on for a bit.

 

Toby

[vivek iyer]

Uber, The editor agrees with you on the mirror slap

(http://www.photo.net/learn/making-photographs/camera).

 

Buy anything that pleases you and your pocket to start with. Once you know your needs based on actual use, you may be able to some up with specific queries. You may also search the archives to find what you are looking for.

[michael s.]

Many of your questions are addressed at this <a href=http://leica.nemeng.com/>helpful site</a>. <p>

 

And I'd have a look at <a href=http://www.cameraquest.com/mguide.htm>these and other cameraquest pages</a>, too.

[michael s.]

Toby, sometimes the words "informed purchase" and "ebay" seem as though they just don't belong in the same sentence. :-)

 

Seriously, this Forum turns out to be a very sensible place to look for used gear.

 

To get you started in your thinking, I'd say a threshold question is whether you want an on-board meter. M5 and later M bodies have one; earlier ones do not.

 

One more thing: the Leica gear tends, on a feature-by-feature basis, to be quite expensive, particularly when compared to comparably sized manual focus slr gear from Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, or Canon. If at all possible, I'd recommend borrowing a rangefinder for a short time to see whether it appeals to you in practice, or only in theory.

 

Good luck.

[andrew_davidhazy]

This is a broad question, so I'll offer up just a few cents. Specifically regarding the body, as

the lens question is an even bigger one and just as many opinions to go with it.

<p>

For arguments sake, I will assume that you already have it in your head that you want a

Leica. Next, it might be helpful to know that the M6 (first produced in the mid 80's) was

the first body with a built in light meter. It functions very well. Beyond that, the camera is

entirely mechanical and does not need batteries to operate. There are two different

functional versions of an M6. The "classic" with through the lens light metering and

smaller aperture dial, and the TTL version which does metering for attached flash as well

and has a larger aperture dial.

<p>

I'm sure just about everyone on this forum would say that the M6 would make a great, if

not ideal, rangefinder. They are tremendously popular. But I may have underestimated this

forum's members, as they are a creative and knowledgeable bunch who just might

disagree with me because, well, they can.

<p>

Anyway, I was in a similar boat as you a couple years ago... entering the Leica and

rangefinder world. But with a little reading... it helps if you excersize a fair amount of

skeptism at all the hype surrounding the latest and greatest, or the oldest wonder thing

with buttery bokeh.

<p>

I bought an M6 classic. Some of the first ones which were made out of Wetzlar, Germany.

In fact, soon after I bought my first, I bought a second just like it. As the story goes... they

were awesome. Now, feeling more confident and assured in my professional and personal

photographic path, I have just invested in brand new custom MPs (a newer version of an

M6, for the most part).

<p>

Which brings me to my last point, which may in fact, reduce all that I've said prior, to little

more than shameless self promotion... I have one for sale!

<p>

Check out my M6 and lenses for sale at:

<a href="http://www.theregoesmybus.com">http://www.theregoesmybus.com</a>

<p>

Anyway... I really do mean well. I'm sure someone else will chime in here. And if they

don't, well, trust me. Really.

<p>

Good luck. Oh, and here's a couple helpful links to check out...

<p>

http://leica.nemeng.com<br>

http://www.cameraquest.com/mguide.htm

[del_gray]

It also sounds like you might not be aware that there are two mounts for Leica rangefinders. The oldest ones (probably what you meant by "Leitz") are screwmount bodies that take only screwmount lenses. Starting with the M3 the mount changed to the M mount, a bayonet. You can use older screwmount lenses on M mount bodies via an adaptor, but not vice versa. The older screwmounts are also generally much less expensive than M mounts. So, assuming you want an M mount, the question of internal meter or not is really the big one. If you are OK with a handheld meter, then the M3, M2, M4, M4p, will all serve you well. There are minor differences between them, but you can read about that on cameraquest. The M5 and M6 have built in meters, and the M7 even has aperture priority and an electronic shutter (the others are all mechanical).

It is often given advice to try a less expensive rangefinder first to see if you get along well with the rangefinder way of seeing. If you've got the money, go ahead and try the Leica (you can usually get it all back if you don't like it), but if you want a starter camera something like a Canonet GIII QL17 will help you determine if you want to go the Leica path or not.

[karl_graf]

If your interested in a Leica M camera, you will have to decide whether you want a built in light meter, which framelines and whether you want the smoother brass ball bearings or the harder steel balls.

[Troll]

There seems to be an epidemic of leading questions today from people who just "joined" the Forum today. Can you spell Tr...?

[andrew_davidhazy]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but regarding "Leitz" vs. "Leica". It is my general

understanding the company actually changed names soon after the introduction of the M6

(mid eighties), and though the actual camera models were always called a "Leica" prior to

then, the company was actually "Leitz". The first M6's were made under the original

corporate umbrella and manufactured out of Wetzlar, Germany, just as most of their

products (M2, M3, etc.) had been up until that point. The M6's that I used and briefly

referred to earlier were technically a "Leitz Leica", and is represented by a Leitz red logo on

the camera, rather than the newer Leica logo. These are thought be somewhat more

collectabible than the models that followed. Although, from my limited experience, at the

very least, I've seen these original models hold onto their value a little longer.

[andrew_davidhazy]

...ool? Really? I guess I'm naive enough not to understand. Anyway, hopefully I didn't waste all

my brilliant and insightful commentary on, well, you know. Hmmm.

[kevin_sarsfield]

Re: Andrew's initial response above, I'm sure he was referring to the M6TTL having a larger shutter speed dial - not an aperture dial, which, of course, is found on the lenses.

 

Best,

 

KPS

[pico]

Let's make it easy.

 

All "M" cameras use the same lenses except the M8 which has problems with certain lenses, but that's a digital thing, not a real camera. So get any M... with these reservations.

 

The M3 is not for 35mm focal lengths unless you like putting goggles on it.

 

The M6 is of two versions - one half-thought-out version without TTL flash readings and another. The M7 is a complete M6.

 

All the others are okay. (Wow, watch that raise havoc.)

 

Lenses? Summicron = "sharp". Summilux - "fast". Noctilux = "fast and strange in a good way." All the others (Elmar, etc) are not worth discussing.

 

Hope this helps.

 

--

I read it on the Internet so I know it's true.

[andrew_davidhazy]

Thanks Kevin. Yes, I meant shutter speed dial. But somehow I doubt the original poster cares

much. Seems a little suspect in retrospect.

[karl_graf]

I prefer the models with the harder steel balls.

[john_r._fulton_jr.]

Pico--love your descriptions. Good work! :->)

[35mmdelux]

any M camera will do, but if you need exposure support, then M6 or newer is what you need.

 

you may want to review acrhives as well for faster ramp up.

[david j.lee]

i totally agree with Bill.

[uber_toby]

Hi All

 

Thanks for all your responces, that is apart from "Bill Mitchell" I'm not sure what you mean by

"Can you spell Tr...?" I didn't like your tone. I always thought that forums were a place to

share knowledge & help others not make the mistakes you personally may have, & not a

place to play Hangman!

 

So thanks to all of you who did help & I hope I can rely on you for all my other "stupid

Questions" & who knows maybe Bill will either explain himself or fall off his high horse.

[karl_graf]

Also consider that the silver ones are coated with real chrome.