theft

[savagesax]

Just an added comment about theft from a good post earlier this week.

 

One of the things that scares the hell out of me is walking to my car late at

night, after the reception. The places that give me the creeps are those

underground parking places, not well lit, and no one around. I know a few of

photographers in the LA area, 12 or so, that have been held up in places like

this. Most of the better hotels have security that will escort you out if you

ask.

 

So please everyone be careful, camera gear to a thief is like a big red flag. I

sometimes get my car and drive up to the main door, then bring out my gear from

the reception. I also always use valet whenever offered. Anyway, sorry to go on

and on, but felt there was a need to post this as theft can happen with the

gear on you.

[mreul]

thanks for this advice its great!

[michael_notar1]

consider packing heat! :)

[savagesax]

LOL, I know only of 1 guy that carries "Heat!" A short barrel .357! Not a bright guy! He was one one the people that got held up.

[savagesax]

Sorry for the poor typing. It's late!

[michael_notar1]

if you are conserned about losing the equipment, then insurance will cover you provided you

have enough. if you are worriedd about personal safety, make friends with my best two

friends, smith and wesson. :) personally, other than personal safety, getting robbed isnta

biggie to me.

 

also i have always used backpacks since day one, or pelican cases- both nice and non

descript. in middle school a teacher thought my photo backpack was a school backpack, so

that tells me something...

[steve_hovland]

Remember the guy who used to shoot 4x5 for Arizona Highways?

 

He carried his camera in an ice chest to hide what it was.

 

So do I.

 

Also, when I load up for a shoot I pull the car into the garage and load gear out of sight. I live in San Francisco and my car has been broken into 4 times so I assume there are people watching.

[steve_levine]

This is the reason they make high voltage, electric cattle prods. Check out various "farm equipment" dealers online.

 

 

Didn't Sal Mineo get "knifed" (switchbladed) in an LA parking garage?

[jeffrey_blake_adams]

That is why I have assistants, a concealed carry permit and the training to use it within the Law. Keep in mind that any place that serves alcohol is not a place for your concealed weapon. In many states it will state that on the permit. Addn'l You can also use a Kubotan, a small 6in rod by 1/2 think. Many come on key chains, get trained with it, I find that more useful than pepperspray.

 

Make sure you and your assistants are always walking out together. Google Lethal force institute (www.ayoob.com) for the book, "In the gravest extreme" if you carry a weapon, you will learn what you and it can and can't do.

 

Safety is not what weapon you use, but your mindeset, just like photography, where it not what camera, but whats in your head.

 

Best wishes, Be Safe, Jeffrey

[bruce_rubenstein___nyc]

Now I think I'm glad I do this on the East coast. Gear theft at receptions is almost unheard of, let alone getting held up.

[picturesque]

I've done just what you describe, Bob, but I've also been known to ask for an escort to my car when in doubt. If you have assistants, by all means, walk together and escort each other to the various cars.

 

Another thing to think about--I read about a photographer that had his wife sew a special pocket in his tux pants to put the memory cards into. If you typically leave the last card used in your camera, and it gets stolen, you are out those images, plus thieves will take everything on your person if they can, including your memory card pouch.

[savagesax]

Nadine, forgot to say something about memory cards. Lost my memory! hehe. (really bad joke there) Anyway, I do that too. Started doing that in the film days, exposed film always was kept in my suit pocket. Really good advice! Nothing worse than getting ripped off and getting sued by the B&G too for no images. Yuk, just the thought! Wonder if this has happened to any of the readers here?

[picturesque]

Bob--I lost a roll of exposed film when my case was stolen. It was in my second camera body that I use for ceremony/no flash shots. Fortunately, the officiator had told me that flash shots were OK, so I didn't lose everything from the ceremony. The sewn-in pocket I refer to above was in the pants leg--hidden so that thieves would overlook it.

[lb-]

if I found out that my photographer was carrying a handgun while shooting my wedding I would be f*cking livid.

 

if you carry a concealed weapon to a wedding I would suggest you get written permission from both the client and the venue.

 

I also think you should get your head checked, but that's just my own silly bias against bringing deadly weapons to weddings.

[patrick_viebey___orlando__]

OK, I have a concealed weapons permit (as well as a nice 9mm Kahr), as well as a fair amount of serious experience in the martial arts (as a fighting, not performance art), including many blunt and sharp weapons (a broom makes a VERY nice weapon, btw).

 

In Florida, any place that serves alcohol or any city park or pretty much any government facility will call it a felony to carry a concealed weapon. Any, that's not limited to just guns.

 

It's not getting stuff stolen that scares me, it's the folks who'll rob you, and then kill you anyway. If ever I land in a situation where I feel like I'm going to be attacked no matter what I do, I'll defend myself, using as much force as the situation warrants. BTW: There are also specific engagement rules - if someone accosts you, you pull a handgun, you are now guilty of escalating the situation. And, if you use lethal force without being in actual real jeopardy, you could end up in jail (and very likely a huge lawsuit). And, if you end up in a gunfight, somebody (possibly you) could end up dead.

 

The best 'self defense' is not to put yourself in that position, and keep yourself aware of what's going on. For sure, I wouldn't go bopping by myself through a dark parking lot at night carrying my gear.

 

That said, if I were to take a job in a location I feared for my safety and it didn't violate any statutes, either I'd decline the job, or I may well be carrying. No, I don't feel the need to notify anyone (and basically my goal is that no one ever ever ever knows I have it). That's my last resort (including giving stuff up, that's what insurance is for). But, if I'm convinced I'm going to end up hurt, there's no other choice...

 

PS: OK, now we're gonna have the gun argument. I'm on the far side, given I was raised in Texas, and my father taught marksmanship for 25 years in the military. Guns, knives, and shovels don't kill people - they're tools. OTOH, to be fair, I'm not quite sure why folks need assault rifles...

 

But, stuff is replaceable. That's why we have insurance.

Rule 1: Don't put yourself in that position

Rule 2: Keep situation awareness (who is around you) when walking around

Rule 3: Give it up if it will make them go away

Rule 4: Never EVER let yourself be kidnapped from a scene

 

(and my personal Rule 5: When in death ground, fight (to misquore Tsun Tzu)) This implies the willingness to kill in self defense, and the experience with the tools to do it, which is actually where most people get 'dangerous' to themselves and others.

 

pat

[lb-]

yeah that's cool, I've known a couple of kung fu masters who packed heat, they've all been great people, but carrying a loaded, concealed handgun without permission, while shooting someone elses wedding is imo an act of extreme and inexcusable disrespect.

[patrick_viebey___orlando__]

Well, out of respect to Bob, I'll keep to his original message and avoid the temptation to debate what is/isn't respectful.

 

No matter what, I agree with Bob's thought on safety, and I think that's the kernal of truth here.

 

My opinion is mine, your opinion may be different, and I can respect that as well. I also never present myself as a 'master' of anything (and am hugely suspicious of folks who do).

 

Be safe.

 

pat

[craig_gillette]

Bob's practice of having someone get the car and bring it as close as possible while the gear is watched, and then do the loading in a secure area is a better idea than trying to take the gear to a remotely parked car. Even then, you need to be aware of what's going on. Some thieves are opportunists, some are practiced predators.

 

Any time you are dealing with thousands of dollars of "stuff," you are a target. Wedding receptions get cleaned out (people bring gifts and they get stacked in lobbies, etc. and helpful people take them out.

 

Dealing with your kit by yourself is problematic because it does take your attention away from your surroundings and it can get your hands full. Parking facilities are troublesome because they aren't easily controlled and patrolled and it's not easy to tell who is or isn't supposed to be in there.

 

People make up their own minds about what they do to be or feel safe. East or west coast or in between.

[cariad]

Well, the east coast is not safe either......several of my friends lost their gear last year. One lost it at the church and one lost it out of the trunk of his car. I am well trained in shooting and own guns, but I do NOT think a wedding is a place to take one. Park in a safe place, don't go back to your car alone, ask for an escourt if you feel uneasy, but for heaven sake don't carry a gun that is crazy. I would not hire a photographer that came to my wedding with a weapon. I can't believe that was even suggested.

[picturesque]

I sometimes carried the red pepper spray on me in the past, but I figure that I wouldn't be able to do anything athletic while managing camera bags, so I stopped that and try not to place myself in dangerous situations to begin with. If I was accosted by someone with a weapon, I'd just hand over gear--that's why I think the special pocket for memory cards is something to think about.

[lb-]

I'm not talking about a parking garage, an empty street or a honky tonk bar, I'm talking about someone elses wedding for which you're the hired photographer! does anyone actually think it's an appropriate context to be carrying an undisclosed, loaded and concealed firearm?

 

unbelievable.

[conraderb]

Packing heat at a gig? Now THAT is what you would call shooting a wedding!

 

Sorry - I couldn't help it. I can't believe no one said anything yet.

 

I will probably surprise some people by saying that whether or not you think it is respectable or totally irresponsible to bring a gun to a wedding (hahahah...sorry, I can't stop smiling at that), just PLEASE PLEASE don't bring it unless you practice using your gun regularly and you have a permit and you aren't violating any laws.

 

I have heard way too many stories of people pack a Glock 9mm and suddenly think they are tough stuff or ninjas. When the time comes to pull it out, they are slow at getting it, they really don't know how to hold it right and aim, and the weapon becomes a danger to themselves and everyone else :-(

 

But hey, a bit of foresight on parking and dealing with your car should avoid 99% of all problems...

[jimstrutz]

I see nothing wrong with anyone carrying a concealed weapon to a wedding as long as they have a permit to do so -- just keep it hidden. I have plenty of friends and relatives that carry one pretty much any time they are out, and unless you know them real well, you wouldn't know. I don't own a gun, however. I think the person packing is more likely to get hurt, or hurt someone else, but if they want to carry it that's fine by me.

 

An only semi-related piece of information is that people who carry guns into the woods for bear protection are statistically far more likely to get mauled by a bear than people who don't. The bear might not survive, but the shooter might not either. All gun owners thinks they are good enough with their weapon, but are evidently not.

 

And statistically people who pack pepper spray are the least likely to get hurt by a bear in the woods. Not because pepper sprays are so efficient at dispatching a bear, but more because the people packing it have enough confidence in their final line of defense that they won't turn an run. Used right, pepper spray can generally be a good deterrent for bears and people alike.

[michael_notar1]

Jim Strutz is right on. you dont have to declare a weapon to someone/a client. i believe this

is in the constitution. you only have delare to an officer if they ask if you have one.

 

just be responsible, obviously education/tactical training is the most important thing.

 

more of an issue to me is an accident on a job if i brought one along.

[rayt]

A concealed weapon is a false sense of security that will in more cases than not cause you harm.

 

I say this from experience having served in Viet Nam and trained to kill people and having done so, more than once.

 

Until you have killed someone you cannot prepare yourself for what you are going to experience. If will affect you for the rest of your life. The first one is always the most difficult.

 

Unless you have been trained to pull the trigger without hesitation, without thinking, that split second of indecision will be costly. Aiming a weapon when your adrenalin is pumping and having that weapon hit the target is not easy. You will most likely miss the first, second, and probably the third shot. Practicing at a pistol range is not going to help that situation.

 

Even if you are successful in acquiring, and disabling your target, you will get sued for a large sum of money. Even if you win, and to win you must prove that you were in extreme danger of loss of life, you will spend thousands to defend yourself. This will be much more than any of the camera and this defense is not covered by insurance.

 

Best plan is to avoid risky situations. If you find yourself in such a situation turn over all your gear to the robber. Insurance will pay for the gear and you will probably not be physically harmed. If you brandish a weapon you have not put the theif in danger and they will respond. Unless you are trained you will not respond quickly enough.

 

Taking a life, or injuring, another human being is to never be taken lightly without preperation for the emotional consequences. Watching someones head dissappear, or chest explode, is not quite what movies would have you think. Worse is mortally wounding someone and watching them die before your eyes.

 

Doing this over material things that can be replaced is just not worth the cost. Carrying a weapon is just going to aggravate an already serious situation.