How long is too long for a customer to make a complaint?

[awhitt99]

I am sure a lot of you who have been shooting for quite some time has had a

"bridezilla" who was impossible to please, or someone who was unhappy for

reasons legitimate or not.

 

The studio I work for just had a MOB leave a message on the phone system,

ranting about being very unhappy with the images. This is not my problem, as I

do the post processing, design, and marketing, but am curious as to what you

guys think.

 

The wedding was almost exactly nine months ago. The bride and groom seemed

neutral if not pleased when they picked up proofs. They have had several

appointments scheduled for their album order, but were no-shows in the

preceeding months since they received their proofs. Phone contact with them was

always pleasant, and if they were unhappy in anyway, they did not make it known

when they made their appointments.

 

They have an appointment sceduled this week, and the MOB talked to the owner to

cancel and began the conversation irately and was screaming at her about how

terrible the pictures were, saying that they were "disgusting" and everyone who

has seen them has said so. Although she did not give specifics as to what was

so terrible about them. She accused the photographer of being drunk (which the

photographer is not even a drinker to my personal knowledge) and then when the

owner was trying to calm the MOB down and extract more information about what

was wrong, the owner was accused of being "on drugs". So the outcome of the

conversation, is that the mother is extremely unhappy, but will not say

specifically why. When asked why she waited so long to say something, the MOB

said that she was too angry to even look at the pictures, let alone complain to

the studio about them.

 

I find the situation to be interesting, because personally, if I contracted for

a service to be done, and I was unhappy, I would IMMEDIATELY say so and try to

work out how to be compensated. I am puzzled as to why someone would wait three

quarters of a year to even start complaining.

 

Just wondering what your reaction would be to the situation if it were you.

[stephen dohring]

Of course we want to see the pics, If the work is very good then you have to have confidence in the work and determine they are being unreasonable in time and complaint. I would get a meeting with the client, educate them with pictures of the day, maybe show some other pros websites in the same price range and show that they are not that different and on a high level. If the images are really poor and they have reason to complain then you can maybe do a new session with B&G and try to find a compoimise. Some people think a good picture is always centered, not understanding the rule of thirds etc. Education and initial consultation go a longway to avoiding these situations.

[Jerry_]

1. Change of life for the MOB.

 

 

 

 

2. MOB lost 20 pounds since the wedding: now she is looking like 1/2 a cow instead of 3/4 of a cow.

[picturesque]

I've seen several similar situations. Not my clients, but studio owners I know. The usual "real" reason(s) for irrational complaints is to get a discount. Or, the MOB or complainer is truly irrational. In both cases, the complainer is not getting what they want, but in the first case, the complainer probably can't afford the images she/he wants. In the second case, the complainer just doesn't see the images he or she thinks should be there, and no amount of reasoning will satisfy him or her.

 

My reaction would be to start documenting all communication with the couple and/or the MOB. Try to reason with them and pinpoint the cause of the complaint. If there is no reasoning, then do whatever it takes to end the transaction. In a totally hopeless case, I would consider giving all the money back, but take the images back. But that's me. Others can decide for themselves how much to bend just to get the irrational person out the door.

[laurenm]

Just to answer as to how long it took them to complain... perhaps the bride and groom were fine with the pictures and others (specifically the MOB) started pointing out what they didn't like? I know my sister wasn't happy with her wedding pics, but I don't think ever said much of anything to the photographer or if she did it wasn't until later. At first she was so unhappy she didn't even want to discuss the pictures or look at them.

 

So, there could be many reasons. As someone else said, I would find out specifics, try and make them happy the best you can and document everything.

 

Who paid for the photography? The couple or MOB?

[jay ott]

They waited 9 mos. because it took them that long to figure out how to use a scanner. They are trying to get something for free.

[savagesax]

For legal interests, depending on the state you are in, it is usually one year for the party to file a complaint in court. So the longer the MOB drags her feet the better off you are. Then again it is sometimes better to try and make the MOB happy. It's a difficult call. I've never had to deal with this. Lucky? Probably!

 

Added to this, did the mother sign the contract or the B&G? If the MOB did not sign the contract I'm not sure if she can take your studio to court. Therefore your studio may have nothing to worry about.

[ni_gentry]

This reminds me of some illeged story told by Gary Fong (not sure about how true the story

is)... something about another photographer (not Fong) who was getting complaints from the

MOB about how the photographs were terrible and not worth the price they paid. So the

photographer gave her a complete refund but then proceeded to cut up all the negatives

right in front of the clients. Maybe not the best way to handle that situation, but I'm sure

there's a little part in many of us who would love to have the b***s to do that.

[ni_gentry]

doh... "alleged"

[david_prouty]

There you go! Call the MOB to make an appointment and when she gets there, agree that the photos were terrible and start shredding them in front of her! (Dummy ones of course!) See her reaction and if she gives a scream, you know what she's up to.

 

Yeah, nine months is way too long to start complaining. I agree with others. If the B&G are the contracted clients and not the MOB, don't worry about it. But, try to find out the particulars of her/their complaint. Try calling the B&G to see if THEY are unhappy. They might have the answer to why Mom is so distraught over the images, too! It's probably just a ploy to get some money back as alluded to earlier. However, having someone going around saying your photography stinks is not good either. The reason needs to be found out either way. Your best bet is calling the B&G. If you can get the MOB back on the phone, tell her that you can't address a problem without knowing specifically what the problem IS! "Come in and we'll talk about it! Show me what you think is so terrible!" If your photography for this wedding is comparable to the work that was shown to the B&G and/or MOB, she has no right to complain. It was what was contracted for and that is what they got! If it's not what they wanted, they hired the wrong photographer in the first place and it's their own fault! I guess the answer to the problem still lies with you since we don't have some pertinent information about the contract and who signed it. If you let a MOB sign the contract she is the one who is calling the shots. I always made sure the bride was the signing party just to avoid this kind of crap. I'd tell the moms that I didn't shoot the wedding for you and you are not the client. If your daughter/son is unhappy, let them come in and talk to me about what was wrong. Too many mothers try to take over the weddings as if it was theirs and nobody does anything but what Mom wants. My buddy had one wedding where the mother of the bride set up an itinerary and when the photographer wanted to take 10 minutes to do some shots of the B&G the mother said they had to be somewhere else. The bride herself told her mother, and I quote, "Mom, I'd really like to have some pictures of just me and my husband. We haven't had time to get them in because of your stupid schedule!"

 

With that, I will end.

 

Dave

[steve_levine]

IMHO, With the amount of inexperienced, unskilled and untrained wedding photographers in today's market, the number of legitimately "complaining clients" is about to explode.

 

 

Although the above sounds like a lack of good customer servicing skills?

[elliot1]

I had a client that loved their wedding pictures (taken last june), paid in full for my services and then asked me to create an album for them, which I did (without a deposit). They loved it and told me to go ahead and print the album. I told them I needed a deposit. After several months of waiting with no response from them, I contacted the bride. Then she started complaining.

 

Bottom line is the bride accused me of many things that were not true in a tone of voice that I did not appreciate. I told her politely that if she continued I was going to hang up. Ten seconds later, I hung up the phone and have not heard from her since.

 

I had given them a few beautiful 8 x 10's, but aside from that they have nothing - they never asked for or received a copy of the files on disk. I am ready to 'shred' my digital negatives! I would like to be paid for my design time. Who knows. They could be divorced by now!

 

Assuming your studio has been paid at least close to 'in full', unless they make specific, valid complaints, I would not do anything other than possibly offer a small discount on the album or possibly do it at cost.

 

Sound like there is some other issue at play here.

[justscattin]

I had a horse client (barrel racer) rant and rave about how awesome specific image was that I had of her. she had 120 days to order it. I usually only leave them on the site for 60, she still had not ordered it after the 120 days . About 6 months later, she started sending my office harrassing and abusive e-mails about the fact I had not given her the image and that she supposed she would order a 4X6. She was quoted a price to include the reposting and finding fees (after the specific time frame all images are removed and filed away and then we have to sort thru thousands of images to find the specific one she wanted)...the fee came to something like $50 with shipping handling and finders fee.

She went balistic (keep in mind, if she'd have been non abusive, we probably would have given her a discount on the thing) we're talking verbally threatening to "come in and kick your a$$.

We filed a complaint and destroyed the negative. We do not photograph her. We have a right to refuse service policy that has been invoked ONCE in 18 years.

We'll take a lot for a client/potential client, but we will not tolerate abuse.

And if anything, her "word of mouth" has gotten us more business as she keeps sending people to our website and they LOVE what they see and when they talk to us.

Sorry, got on a roll there.

Michelle

[mariah_smith]

Coming from a wedding photographer that hated her wedding pictures...just because a client complains does NOT mean that they are unreasonable or trying to get freebies. For many many brides, if their pictures aren't want they expected it can be truly heartbreaking. Imagine how much planning goes into their perfect day and to not have visual representation of that in a quality way is awful!

 

The MOB may have been the one to complain because the bride couldn't. Either she was too upset or a person that can't handle confrontation. She may have been over the top rude but she's attacking on behalf of her daughter (mother bear syndrome).

 

That the couple didn't come to their appt's also shows that they were less than enthoused with their pics, if they were too polite to say that they hated them. There are also many reasons it could've taken 9 months to complain.

 

Before you ego maniacs get all defensive about someone who complains about your work and plan your revenge by chopping up their negetives (yes, including Gary Fong if that's true), compare your bruised ego to the loss of their once in a lifetime chance for photography that makes them remember and love their wedding day all over again!

 

Agreed, there are scammers & unreasonable people out there but artists especially can be so defensive of their work that if someone doesn't like it, they freak out and do vengeful things "how dare you don't like my pics...I chop your negetives...you must be a fat cow!" instead of thinking that they just possibly may have done something wrong!

[matt_k1]

Without seeing the photos or knowing the photographer or the client, it's hard to say

anything. Obviously it's better to bring up any complaints early on, but sometimes people

take their time looking through the images and often compare them to other wedding

photos and get feedback and opinions (sometime uneducated opinions) from others.<p>

If the photos are actually good and representative of the photographers typical work and

the work that was shown to get the gig, then there's nothing to worry about and all that

can be done is to try to make the client happy within "reasonable" limits. Otherwise, let it

go. Maybe not cut up the negs, but if the photographer is doing good work then word of

mouth won't necessarily hurt business (hopefully).<p>

On the other hand if the photos are bad, then it depends on how this photographer was

hired and why the photos turned out bad. Was it just bad luck or something specific

about this wedding that presented a challenge, but his work is normally good? If so, then

I'd think some partial refund or other compensation (re-shoot or other credit?) would not

be unreasonable to ask. But IF the photographer is a beginner or normally produces

average or poor work, then it would have been up to the clients to screen that out during

the hiring process. If the bride/groom or MOB were looking for a bargain photographer

and hired based on price then there's much less room for complaining about hating your

wedding photos after the fact. You get what you pay for.

[roxyandkaidotcom]

Good response Mariah.

[stephen hazelton]

It shouldn't be that hard to figure out if the photos are okay, "disgusting", or what.

 

There could be a lot of things going on. Generation gap is one of them, mothers don't always like what their kids like, and if kids chose the photographer, don't be surprised if that's half the problem.

 

You can run into some pretty irrational biases, too. It seems people of my dad's age, who grew up seeing B&W pictures, feel that ANY B&W picture is simply defective and ought not be taken.

 

Could be the lady's personal problems, PMS, alcohol, who knows. Or all of the above.

[picturesque]

Mariah, of course wedding photographers have big egos :^). It is the nature of any artist. And it is true that some react to any bit of criticism of their work very defensively. I do think name calling and insults are unnecessary. However, take note that Allison did say the MOB would not or could not say what she thought was wrong with the pictures. Anyone who cannot or will not answer, when asked a direct question, cannot be taken seriously. In addition her accusations re drinking and drugs are irrational statements. This kind of offensive verbal behavior is typical of someone clutching at anything to (usually) get cents off. The other typical reasons are completely unrelated personal problems which may or may not involve the person's relationship with either the bride or groom, and expectations which were not met, whether those expectations are reasonable or not or due to miscommunication or gender gap etc. I don't think Allison or the studio owner will be able to figure out for sure the real reasons or the reason the MOB waited so long to complain. All the owner can do now is deal with the current situation and get to a resolution.

 

Why were you unhappy with your pictures?

[austinphoto]

There's a problem here! Try to solve it. Bickering back and forth just doesn't solve any problems. You have your views, they have theirs. Try to make them happy. It's been a long time since the wedding to hear this now! ask them "what would make you happy?" and let them know that the time to complain was really 8 months ago, not now. But let them know you want to make them happy. If it comes down to a matter of money, then you know that she just wants to spend less. If It's a matter of photos, then you can try to make them the way she wants them. But whatever the reason, her fault or yours, you have to be the one to eat crow since she is the one who is unhappy and unfortunately, unhappy people love to see the other side squirm and suffer. Reasonable people make the best of it. Good luck!

[j_c38]

Sounds as if the B&G were your clients. If so, who cares what the MOB says. If this is so, and she calls again I would politely inform her that if there is a problem that the contracted parties need to discuss problems, not her. Also do not to call back. Any more calls from her would be considered harassment and treated as such.

 

If the B&G have a complaint you can ask why it has taken them 9 months to say something. Take it from there. Pretty much 9 months is a little late to be complaining. I'm completely done with clients in less then 9 months let alone just getting a complaint!

 

Another thing, as far as contracted parties, if it is with the B&G then you shouldn't have been saying anything to the MOB in the first place. The MOB is not your client and discussing issues with someone besides the contracted party is just bad business and can cause you a bunch of headaches (not that you don't already have one at this point)

[john_h.1]

"For legal interests, depending on the state you are in, it is usually one year for the party to file a complaint in court. So the longer the MOB drags her feet the better off you are."

 

This sounded very wrong for a contract matter so I consulted a statute of limitations chart at nolo.com for all 50 states for breach of contract actions. The allowable time ranged from 3 years to 15 years. No state had one year or even two. To be sure one would need to directly check the actual statutes for all fifty states but that is not worth the time for this thread. Also there was a comment that not having a written contract will probably provide a free pass. Not true. Verbal contracts are valid with some exceptions.

 

It is best to ignore legal comments made in internet forums as they are completely unreliable.

 

On the business side, These complaints may be a prelude to a demand that the price be reduced. The comments tend to be the type uttered by someone who is a crank and won't be happy no matter what. Such people often try to bring vendor prices down. If it is not necessary to have the MOB present for the appointment, I would try to have the B&G attend only so they can establish what they want on their own. Its an opportunity to get them to consider the true value of the imagery. They can order what they want and deal with MOB on their own. If the MOB is present it will be a very difficult road ahead. If you give an inch she will demand a mile and will probably demand it anyway. If she is involved I would just be diplomatic and try to get the whole process done and over with ASAP and move on.

[mariah_smith]

Nadine - yeah, you make a good point. Every situation is different. I guess being on the "hate my wedding pictures" side, I'm more open to clients having legitimate complaints. Besides, we're only getting one side of the story and we don't if the photog. was drunk or not..not unheard of :)

 

Not that it relates to this thread, but since you asked...I hired my photog. thru an agency and they switched on me two months before my wedding. Long story short - new photog. didn't take any pictures of my guests, didn't take any portraits of me, my husband, or daughter or any combination of us three, didn't use the list of group shots I wanted (and even asked her to pull out & use while we were shooting) and therefor didn't get most of the shots we had discussed were important to me, didn't know how to and didn't bring enough equipment to take pics in direct afternoon sun on the beach and decided the best angle to shoot almost all of our shots was at a very unflattering up angle (she had none of this angle in her portfolio)...I'm not a big girl and I look like Gigantabride. We had a gorgeous wedding on our favorite beautiful beach and most of our pictures have the sky as the background.

 

Anyway, obviously the photos were of huge importance to me and I know what it feels like to hate your pics. If, when I had told the agency that I was unhappy, they cut up my negetives or blamed the unflattering pics on me being a cow, I really don't know what I would have done but I probably would have scared even myself :)

[david_eicher]

We had a couple that appeared very happy with their images. I usually let them keep the proofs for one month and compose thier package. During that time images are shown to family and friends. MOG did not seem as happy with them though, although again not providing specifics. Later on Mom was caught at Wal-Mart trying to copy 63 of my images from the wedding. She had told Wal-Mart she was allowed to do this. Of course they called me and I spoke with her. "oh, I thought we could do this, I was planning on buying them from you also!!" Yeah, right. By the time MOG placed her order, it had dropped to about 20 images.

[awhitt99]

Update to situation......

 

I think that those of you who have hit up on the MOB wanting something for nothing might have gotten it right. I looked at the wedding at work yesterday, and it is completely representative of what the studio shows in display. The MOB did make one specific complaint....that there were no photos of just her and her daughter. I in fact counted 8 shots with nothing but her and her daughter, in two separate locations, so who knows what the woman was talking about.

 

I checked their paperwork (again, all of this is not really my business, but I am interested when problems like this arise) and indeed the MOB has done absolutely NO business with the studio. The paperwork and contract was not even signed by the bride, but by the groom, credit card receipt and all. Yet I was told by the owner that in her conversation with the MOB, she had cancelled the appointment because she herself could not be there. When the owner had told her that if she had a list of photos, she could just give it to the bride, and the bride could come in herself and take care of the order. That's when the MOB went ballistic and started the complaining and said that she most certainly MUST be there for the order. Strange too that the bride and groom arent "kids" I believe they are well in their late twenties, early thirties.

 

But even more interesting is that after the huge phone blow up with the owner and MOB on Monday night, there has not been any call from any of them whatsoever. I also can understand now why a bride in general would be upset about pictures, and wait close to a year to complain being afraid of confrontation, but obviously the MOB had no problems with confrontation. If the MOB felt so strongly about them, why did SHE wait so long to call? Unless she wanted something free. And if she felt so strongly that she was being belligerent and name-calling, why has no one heard from her since, because the owner told the MOB to call her the next day when she could be in the studio looking at the photos, trying to solve the problem?

 

 

On a side note, people will try anything. I personally took a phone call a few years back from a bride who had already picked up her album. It was when we still did film and printed actual 4x5 proofs (unwatermarked, and scanned all the time) She purposely played dumb, asking that when we print the pictures for the wedding album, do we just take the 4x5 proof and stretch it out to make it bigger, because all the proofs of the pictures she picked out for her album mysteriously went AWOL. I personally had processed her job, and never remove proofs from a proofbook, and told her so. I even suggested that maybe a family member had taken them out. She got irate, and screamed at me and started name calling, then hung up on me.....funny how we never heard back from her to this day. Can you say free parent's album?

[mariah_smith]

Yah, physcho. I think I give people the benefit of the doubt a little too often. This chick sounds a little off her rocker. :)