My D200 is not behaving...

[traff]

...as I want it to. - Which is to say, I'm probably doing something wrong!<br>

<br>

What I want to do is set it up so that it will bracket my shot with an

additional 1 stop ISO under exposure.<br>

<br>

My camera is set to:<br>

Exposure Mode: Manual<br>

Shooting Mode: Ch - Continuous High Speed<br>

(b1) Auto-ISO: ON<br>

(e5) Auto Bracketing: AE & Flash<br>

From the D200 Manual: Auto Bracketing in M Exposure Mode (p167):<br>

"If no flash is attached when Custom Setting b1 is ON<br>

camera will vary ISO sensitivity ONLY..."<br>

<br>

What I'm expecting to happen is that, having determined my exposure and framed

my shot, if I activate Auto Bracketing (press Bkt and select from Main Command

Dial) the camera will take 2 shots 1 at my calculated exposure and one under

exposed by varying the ISO setting by 1 stop.<br>

<br>

What actually happens is... When I activate Auto Bracketing (with ISO > 100) <br>

It overrides Auto ISO - setting the ISO to 100. <br>

The Auto ISO indicator stops blinking - signifying Auto ISO is not initiated. <br>

It indicates in the viewfinder that the calculated exposure is beyond the limits

of the exposure meter (ie it will underexpose). <br>

It seems that it is defaulting to Flash Bracketing even though there is no Flash

active.<br>

Is there any setting I could have made that would fool it into thinking a Flash

was active?<br>

I've checked and cleaned out the hotshoe - ensured that the contacts are not

sticking.<br>

Auto ISO Bracketing works fine in Aperture and Shutter Priority Modes.<br>

<br>

...........<br>

<br>

Well... when all else fails...<br>

1) Hard Reset (Qual & +-)<br>

2) Shooting Menu -> Menu Reset<br>

3) Custom Setting -> Menu Reset<br>

(anything else I could/should have reset?)<br>

Set Exposure Mode -> M<br>

Set Auto ISO -> ON<br>

Expose scene for ISO 500<br>

Dial in Bracketing... Back to square 1 : Flash Bracketing initiated - ISO sets

to 100)<br>

<br>

In desperation, a few red herrings to chew over...<br>

I have had Manual/Auto Bracketing working on this camera a few months back<br>

So if this IS a fault it's one that has developed rather than always been there.<br>

Since then I have upgraded the firmware to Ver 2.00<br>

I have attached a Speedlight to the hot-shoe (though not used it)<br>

I have purchased a new lens (tried my old lens too though - no difference)<br>

I can?t see any of those things would have any effect but they?re my last

grasping straws.<br>

<br>

Does this look like a visit to a Nikon repair centre? (pretty frustrating - it's

not like my camera is seriously disabled but now I can't have the function I

want it all the more!) <br>

I still can't help but feel that this is down to me setting or not setting

something I should or shouldn't have set. <br>

<br>

Any pointers would be much appreciated...<br>

[erik_loza]

Why don't you just use ex-comp? It would be 10x easier to do that than how you are trying it now. Probly' not a hardware/ software issue, by the way.

[traff]

Erik - thanks for the speedy responce...<br>

Sorry if this is a naive question but... what's ex-comp?

[shashikant_agarwal2]

> what's ex-comp?

 

Exposure compensation?

[traff]

There's nothing like the blindingly obvious to stare you straight in the face and make a fool of you! :) - Thanks Shashikanit <br>

<br>

Why not use it? <br>

Convenience. Using bracketed Auto ISO means I can hit the shutter release once and take 2 (close to) identical shots varied by 1 F/stop.

That's gotta be easier than dialling exposure compensation in and out for every shot I take.

[erik_loza]

Bracketed Auto ISO? That's cool, I suppose. I would be willing to bet that using the ex-comp button (which controsl shutter speed, rather than film speed) is just as quick, if not quicker, than toggling through a menu to set, then un-set it. Plus, there would be no possibility of inducing unwanted noise into the file if it's higher ISO's we're working with. Just seems to me like adding one more variable into a simple equation. Of course, I was film camera shooter before a DSLR shooter, and try to avoid menu's whenever possible. Maybe your way I easier? Why not try it both ways and see? Good luck.

[shashikant_agarwal2]

I must admit I hadn't read your original question at all, and just read and responded to the

"what is ex-comp" post.

 

<p><p>Now that I've read the first post, it seems that you have followed the manual

quite carefully so I can't really add anything other than:

<p>1. Try setting e5 to "AE only"

<p>2. Put in a query to Nikon tech support and see what they have to say.

 

<p><p>I don't have my D200 on me right now, but I'll try out this scenario before the

weekend is out and post back here. I didn't upgrade the firmware on my D200 yet, so let's

see if there is any difference in behaviour.

[traff]

Hi Shashikant... Thanks for coming back!<br>

<br>

1) yep tried that...and nope - no difference!<br>

<br>

2) I feel I'm running out of other options<br>

I've even posted this on a couple of other forums<br>

so I'll do that now - I'll post back with their response.

[elliot1]

Turn your AUTO ISO off and then try it.

[traff]

Turning Auto-ISO OFF works fine.<br>

Bracketing adjusts exposure by varying the Shutter Speed.<br>

<br>

However, having Auto-ISO ON is the object of the exercise.<br>

The set-up I'm after is: <br>

Manual Exposure : Auto-ISO ON : Bracketing Enabled<br>

<br>

The combo is valid - I've used it before - just can't figure what I've done to upset it this time!

[erik_loza]

What is the point of bracketing the ISO? I'm not being cute, but do you hope to gain by doing this, rather than with shutter speed? Is this some project where an exact sequence must happen at precisely the same exposure length?

[traff]

Hi Erik - I appreciate your interest, and I don't think you're being 'cute' at all..<br>

Let me give some background - bear with me, I appreciate I'll be stating the obvious quite often, but it's just my thought flow...<br>

<br>

There are 3 variables that control exposure - Aperture, Shutter and ISO.<br>

Aperture and Shutter are 'creative' (they will affect characteristics of the image)<br>

ISO is not in itself creative but used thoughtfully can enable you to select the 'creative' settings with less compromise.

The problem is, the photographer now has 3 variables to juggle with. Two of those variables are far more intuitive, instinctive and familiar and for that reason, I think, many people choose to ignore ISO as an 'active' variable and only think to adjust it to a 'fixed' state when conditions are extreme - in the same way that you'd choose a higher ISO rated film for a specific shoot.<br>

I think that's a missed opportunity - but like I say 3 variables are not an easy number to handle. However, I believe in the D200, Nikon (I don't know about other manufacturers / models) have provided the facility to make that 3rd variable easily and conveniently controlled for those who want total control over the camera.<br>

<br>

<b>Exposure mode: Manual.</b> <br>

Exposure is dialled in by independently adjusting Aperture and Shutter speed values until the meter reading indicates an accurate exposure. ISO can also be dialled in and can be used 'creatively' to allow a specific selection of Aperture and/or Shutter speed. This is like a secondary exposure calculation this time adjusting ISO and either Aperture or Shutter values to maintain the exposure.<br>

Total control but very cumbersome and unwieldy. <br>

<br>

<b>Exposure Mode: Manual. Auto-ISO: On</b><br>

Now the camera is in Auto Exposure Mode.<br>

The Photographer selects ANY combination of Shutter and Aperture and the camera will select an ISO rating that will give an accurate exposure. Adjust either the Aperture or the Shutter and the camera will adjust ISO to balance. If the photographer wants to adjust the ISO he can select either Aperture or Shutter (whichever he is happiest to 'compromise') to adjust and the ISO will follow.<br>

This combination of Manual Exposure and Auto-ISO provides an Auto Exposure mode with total convenient control over all 3 Exposure Variables. You have the advantages of Manual control AND Auto Exposure. I think it's called having your cake and eating it!<br>

<br>

I'm not saying this is a 'catch all' Exposure Mode - Action photographers will still prefer, I'm sure, to deal with just 1 variable when adjusting exposure, Landscape photographers may find little advantage in the extra convenience, but for many Manual Mode photographers (well, me at least!) it provides a very effective Auto Exposure option and makes selecting ISO values a simple inclusion in their work-flow. <br>

<br>

The additional 'refinement' of incorporating Bracketing into the set-up is simply a 'convenience' for me. I find that when I mis-calculate an exposure it is, more often than not, over-exposed by 1 f/stop. At present I simply apply a 1 f/stop exposure compensation and re-shoot. But sometimes the moment will have passed. I'm not an 'action' photographer but even slow moving objects can wander out of shot by the time I've checked the LCD Histogram to see if I got the exposure spot-on.<br>

By Bracketing my shots I simply give myself some extra coverage - most times (hopefully) it will have been redundant but if it costs me nothing more than the temporary use of space on my storage card I may as well take up the option.<br>

Setting bracketing on and Shooting mode to Continuous will give me a 2 burst bracketed shot for each photograph I take, with no extra effort on my part. Closest thing to a free lunch I've come across yet!<br>

<br>

The fact that the Bracketing will alter the ISO is due to the fact that the Exposure Mode is Manual. The camera can't alter Shutter or Aperture because they're defined by the photographer - the only variable it can alter is ISO. It's not that I want ISO bracketing particularly - it's just that that's the only method available.<br>

<br>

There's no dipping into menus once you're in the field. All controls are on the camera body (even bracketing if you choose to turn it off)<br>

<br>

The fly in the ointment is - that I can't get the Bracketing to work in Manual/Auto-ISO. <br>

Now, I'm sure it SHOULD work, the manual specifically says it should work, I believe I've had it working myself some months back (though I can't absolutely confirm this - I was experimenting at the time so I tried many combinations), I have other folks telling me they've set there D200's to these settings and it works for them. <br>

It's gotta be that I've got something set somewhere that is confusing the Bracketing sequence. I'm sure if it was a hardware/software fault it would show up in other areas too.<br>

[erik_loza]

Phill, are you an engineer by trade, or a doctor? I have to be right about this....

[wisp]

"Only one photograph is produced each time the shutter is released, meaning that several shots (up to nine) are required to complete the bracketing sequence."

 

p75:

"If Custom Setting e5 (Auto BKT Set) is set 'AE Only' or to 'AE & Flash' and 'On' is selected for Custom Setting b1 (ISO Auto), the camera will vary ISO sensitivity without varying shutter speed or aperture, regardless of the setting chosen of Custom Setting e6"

 

So it sounds like you can do it, but the D200 will not 'burst' all the shots into a single button press

[traff]

<b>Erik</b> - I am neither an engineer nor a doctor, however since purchasing my D200 10 months ago I have become an Insomniac, reading that darned D200 manual back to front and upside down! (and it still doesn't make sense - worst plot I've ever read!)<br>

<br>

<b>Joshua</b> - thanks for the page ref.. yes, that's how I read it too. I'm sure the bracketing should work by varying ISO - I can't see any other way of interpreting that statement. <br>

The statement is repeated on p167 under 'Auto Bracketing in M Exposure Mode' which kinda underlines it further. <br>

<br>

>> but the D200 will not 'burst' all the shots into a single button press <br>

<br>

It will if the shooting mode is set to Cl or Ch - Continuous shooting (low or high speed) while the release button is depressed. It even recognizes the bracketing program and will pause the continuous shooting for 1 sec after a bracketing sequence is complete so it's dead easy to lift your finger off just at the right time. <br>

[ray .]

Can you call Nikon help?

[traff]

Hi Ray - yes, I've dropped a request in to them - I guess it'll be Monday before they start to look at 'em, just have to be patient. I'll post their response here - would be nice to beat them to it though! :)

[wisp]

"It will if the shooting mode is set to Cl or Ch - Continuous shooting (low or high speed) while the release button is depressed. It even recognizes the bracketing program and will pause the continuous shooting for 1 sec after a bracketing sequence is complete so it's dead easy to lift your finger off just at the right time."

 

Wow - that is actually very cool. I love when companies actually deliver intuitive design - I need to give this a try today. I think this would be useful for HDR - arguably need a tripod, but depending on the lense used (such as a wide angle), the angular vibration/movement might not impact the shot (significantly).

 

Thanks alot for the info.

 

PS: Somehow I misread your original post and thought you didn't have access to the manual - normally I don't quote manuals verbatim like that as I find it to be kind of obnoxious - hope it didn't come across that way.

[andreas_weber]

> The combo is valid - I've used it before - just can't figure what I've done to upset it this time!

 

Works just as you intend with my D200 (Thanks for the hint, btw, might be useful some day.)

 

When using manual-ISO-Auto-bracketing the camera will indeed not show any indication of ISO-Auto, but only the ISO-value chosen for the next frame. Have you tried just shooting a bracketing burst and checking the used ISO-values? If you didn't, do so. If your camera unexpectedly does what it should, the setting you recently changed is CF e7, bracketing order and your using a bracketing sequence with more than 2 stops underexposure ;-)

 

Andreas

[traff]

<b>Joshua</b>: no probs, you didn't come across obnoxious in anyway, appreciated the time you took to check the problem out, and the manual is the obvious place to start. Besides its not that easy to reference, the Index is appalling, and after all I HAD missed the ref on p75 you'd pointed out - I'd just picked up a similar ref further on.<br>

<br>

<b>Andreas</b>: That's encouraging. Yep I've tried doing a bracketing burst, a 3 burst (1 over and 1 under) results in the camera trying to bracket around ISO 100 - that is, the 'under' and 'normal' exposure is at ISO 100 and the 'over' is at ISO 200. But of course the 'normal' isn't the correct exposure in the first place, the Metered ISO is overridden by the default ISO sensitivity value when I initiate bracketing, so all shots are hopelessly under exposed.<br>

If I dial in ISO 200 (say) for ISO sensitivity then Bracketing overrides the Metered ISO to 200 and bracketing gives me ISO 100, 200 and 400. But again, the bracketing I want needs to be around the ISO arrived at in the MTR not that overridden by the ISO sensitivity.<br>

<br>

If I use this method with Auto, Shutter or Programmed exposure it works fine. <br>

It's only Manual that forces the override.<br>

<br>

Could I ask you to check the following (writing this has made me think a couple of things).. <br>

<br>

Set your ISO sensitivity to ISO 100 (don't alter this after setting)<br>

Exposure - Manual<br>

Auto ISO - On<br>

Dial in a Shutter/Aperture combination that Meters an ISO 500 (approx)<br>

<br>

(1) Raise the Built-In flash: Does this override the ISO to 100?<br>

(2) Close the Built In Flash, Dial in Bracketing - do a 3 stop bracketing burst.<br>

Do the exposures vary ISO around (approx) 500 ISO (without altering the shutter or aperture)?<br>

If you've got the time to try that out I'd really appreciate it. <br>

<br>

I'm aware that my original post has an area of 'ambiguity'. Where I said "expose scene for ISO 500" I meant use Shutter/Aperture controls to create a Meter reading of ISO 500 not dial in 500 from the ISO setting. I think I may have misled people there. <br>

[andreas_weber]

> Where I said "expose scene for ISO 500" I meant use Shutter/Aperture controls to create a Meter reading of ISO 500 not dial in 500 from the ISO setting. I think I may have misled people there.

 

Ahh, sorry to disappoint you, but my camera doesn't behave according to that clarified specification, but exactly as yours does: "a 3 burst (1 over and 1 under) results in the camera trying to bracket around ISO 100 - that is, the 'under' and 'normal' exposure is at ISO 100 and the 'over' is at ISO 200.

...

If I dial in ISO 200 (say) for ISO sensitivity then Bracketing overrides the Metered ISO to 200 and bracketing gives me ISO 100, 200 and 400. But again, the bracketing I want needs to be around the ISO arrived at in the MTR not that overridden by the ISO sensitivity."

 

> (1) Raise the Built-In flash: Does this override the ISO to 100?

 

Yes. ISO drops to 100, the "ISO AUTO" sign in the viewfinder stops blinking and stays on solid.

 

(2) Close the Built In Flash, Dial in Bracketing - do a 3 stop bracketing burst.

Do the exposures vary ISO around (approx) 500 ISO (without altering the shutter or aperture)?

 

No. ISO-bracketing always varies around the preset value, it doesn't choose an automatic value first and vary from there.

 

Andreas

[traff]

Thanks Andreas - I think that confirms it. That's the way the camera works, despite what it says in the manual. I'm sure this is a 'bug' since it simply doesn't make sense to behave this way - it achieves nothing. Surprised it hasn't been noticed by someone before though. Wonder if it could be fixed with a firmware upgrade. Probably not. I'll see what Nikon say.<br>

Ho Hum.