Appreciation of your advice... and my photography philosophy.

[ray_moth]

Emile,

 

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The point I was trying to make was that Alfie should at least learn

the basics before setting "rules" for himself. It may have come

across as bullshit to you but it wasn't meant to be.

 

<p>

 

Regards, Ray

[nesrani]

words fail me

[emile_de_leon9]

Dear Ray,

Why should Alfie have to do anything? He might be given the

freedom to be himself whatever that may be regardless of the

opinions of others. Does it matter if he evolves photographically or

not? Only he can answer that. He can only be where/what he is...

like all of us. If he wants to be in a box full of the rules of

others thats cool...if he wants to excell at those rules thats cool

too...if he wants to do anything at all or not.... its all his

personal choice. My calling it bullshit was not meant to be taken

personally...sorry about that...it was just my way of putting forth

a question of the value of ones own personal education and opinion

in regards to the development of another.To teach another can be

very tricky business...Obviously if he wants to excell in the "world

of photography" he needs to heed your advice... but does he really

want this or is he after something else...only he can answer that.

Regards,

[ray_moth]

Emile,

 

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I didn't take your words personally. Alfie said, inter alia, "I am

happy to have the photo criticism indeed but I don't feel like people

here are interested in providing advice to a young and beginning

photographer about improving the shots." That sounds to me like he

does want to improve, if not excel, in photography. I therefore

responded to his post, instead of veering off at a tangent.

 

<p>

 

Rob,

 

<p>

 

If words fail you, why post?

 

<p>

 

Regards, Ray

[raymond_tai]

Alfie, I am not going to critize you for expressing your ideas but

will critize your ideas instead. Please get yourself into a b&w

printing class immediately. People have day jobs so there are

night classes for that reason. Once you have tried your best to

print a really crappy negative you will begin to think how to take a

perfect one. I personally believe good photographic technics

begins in the darkroom. The darkroom is where the novice will

learn to respect the basics such as contrast and tones. Now

unplug the computer, buy a box of Multigrade, a good incident

meter and register.

[steve_wiley]

Emile, I don't think anyone is suggesting that Alfie go get his

Master's degree in photography from Yale, only to take a basic

photo class or workshop. Photography is a visual language. If

you have something serious to say, you need to learn a few

words. He said that he wanted this forum to be his online

classroom. I'm sure everyone will agree that this isn't the right

place to learn about the basics of the craft. I'll second ray's

opinion about the darkroom, though. Photography is based on

reciprocity and nowhere is it more evident than in the darkroom.

Mystical feelings won't help you get a good print out of a negative

that's three stops underexposed.

[emile_de_leon9]

If Alphie wants more baggage to carry then by all means he or anyone

else for that matter can pay the bucks for someone to give them

their opinion of what a photograph should be and how they think he

should do it. I think though that the development(no pun intended)

and fixing(pun intended) of the photographic technique and SPIRIT of

THE INDIVIDUAL comes about solely as the photographer shoots and

develops and grows his own way thereby.. by himself... with or

without a teacher. In reality the photographer teaches himself. All

that money spent on a photo 101 class could be spent on an enlarger,

paper,film, lens or good books on how to do it...I really think most

classes are for the lazy or stupid who want to be spoon fed and/or

to maybe socialize...And......Steve I think you have this ass

backwards...The spirit drives the good photograph...technique is

never the originator. It's VERY important to contact the feeling

first then let the technique develop in response to the genuine

impulse ....not to act out of greed and become a Adams or HCB clone

or some other monster.

[steve_wiley]

Emile, Were you somehow traumatized in a Photo 101 class?

Why are you so anti-education? I can guarantee you that no

student of mine has ever had their individual spirit or personal

vision squelched in one of my classes. Remember that

photography isn't all light and groovy feelings, it's also about

math and chemistry, which some people are uncomfotable with.

My goal as a teacher is to make technique become second

nature, so the students learn to good pictures effortlessly. And

yes there is socializing. It's a classroom of 10-15 people who

want to learn about and discuss photography and their

experiences with it. My students are busy people. They have

careers and families. But every Saturday, they come to class

and work for three hours so they can learn to be better

photographers. That doesn't sound lazy to me.

[emile_de_leon9]

No Steve, I wasn't tramatised by any photo 101 class!I never took

one. And...I'm not against education as I have taught music

professionally since the age of 16 in N.Y.C. to more recently

college and adult level workshops. It's just my experience that most

(but not all)college education etc.is just big business..... but

occationally a good teacher shows up and the students can have a

REAL experience there. But generally in a faculty/college situation

the good teachers are few and far between and the

mediocre/intellectual is king. Politics is the name of the day and

usually the good people get run out or left high and dry by the

system.There are exceptions of course but but again these are few

and far between.Anyway ....it seems like you actually care about the

people you instruct and give them something good to work on!I didn't

though hear you mention artistry with the camera as related to the

emotions....Is this part of your instruction too or is it just math

and chemistry? Its been my experience that so called education is

really only headucation...and this really doesn't take the person

very far...and by far I mean... ALL THE WAY!!

[triblett_lungre_thurd]

how'd I miss this'n? Usually, when someone's talkin' behind my back,

well, my hackles stand up and I taste bile...

 

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must be gettin' old... anyhow, thanks for the kind words,

 

<p>

 

you sissies...

 

<p>

 

me

 

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p.s. to alfie... I like ya kid, say it with humor and you've really

got something there.