Minolta DSE 5400 (1st model) film holder problem

[jorge]

I'm sorry if this problem has been addressed before, I just spent nearly one

hour searching PhotoNet and the web for a viable solution and was unable to find

anything even remotely connected.

 

For more than three years I've been using a Minolta DSE 5400 (first model) to

scan all my 35mm film. Today, while trying to profile it with an IT8 slide, it

swallowed the seldom used slide holder all the way in and started making ugly

noises (grinding of gears?). Afterwards, when firing the Minolta Dimage Scan

software (ver. 1.1.1) it presents an error dialog stating "Error=50, film holder

problem, open the scanner front door" and a pair of [Accept][Cancel] buttons.

Opening the scanner door makes it run a series of noisy cycles like it's trying

to eject or pull a holder, ending in a click that can be felt on the door.

Clicking on the [Accept] button while the door is held open, ends the cycling

but the scanner refuses to pull _any_ holder.

 

This is my 2nd 5400. The first failed before a month and was replaced by the

vendor. The problem -oddly enough- was a stuck filmholder, that failed to load

fully and refused to be ejected.

 

Q's:

 

1. Can anyone suggest a troubleshooting routine?

 

2. Now that Konica-Minolta has folded, where can I get this scanner serviced?

(I'm in Mexico but the former rep for the country is also no longer servicing

Minolta. In any case, this scanner was never sold here. I got mine grom B&H.

 

3. Can anyone tell me if this scanner has a history of hardware bugs? Mine (the

2nd unit) worked flawlessly for more than three years until today.

 

4. In case I'm stuck with an ugly and expensive doorstop, can anyone tell me if

the Epson 4990 is a viable alternative? I seldom print larger than 11x17, and

then again, I seldom print scans _at_all_ as I shoot about 90% B&W and I do that

in the (wet) darkroom, on true FB silver halide paper. The reason I ask is that

I have an Epson 2450 that has never behaved in the least quirky and that scans

my MF and LF negatives very decently.

 

Thanks for any feedback.

 

Jorge.

[mendel_leisk]

I had more-or-less identical problem, posted here:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00E5Wf

 

I came to the conclusion that switching between Vuescan and Minolta Scan Utility *seemed* to be causing the problem with the latter, but not sure. Discontinued using Vuescan directly with the scanner, and the problem did not reoccur.

 

Of late mine's been locking while travelling between frames 1 and 2. As a work around, I decided to only use frame 4, with the slide holder, and feed slides in through the open end. Considering I'm manually focussing each slide, it ends up actually going a bit faster this way. I tried a preview of 4 frames, and the lock between 1 and 2 did not re-occur. But just to be on the safe side, I've stuck with frame 4, feed thru the open end method. I'd like to get to the end of my slides without a meltdown.

 

Another thing, every once in a while there a loud whine when transporting between frames, usually when previewing, and the resulting preview is shifted over about 1/4 frame. Usually a repeat and all is ok, knock on wood.

 

Anyway, have a read through the link and keep this thread up to date with developments.

[jorge]

Medel,

<br><br>

Many thanks for the heads-up onthe post. I missed it on all my searches. The one I did find was <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00HEoP&tag=">this thread</a> and was trying to send Bob Gentile a message but my mail server never got the PN email with his address, I don't know why.

<br><br>

My failure event sequence seems to be akin to yours: I tried to profile the scanner using VueScan 8.4.01 and the slide holder, with the target on position 4. The holder was pulled all the way in and started making whirring sounds that alarmed me. For all purposes they sounded like stripping gears. I pressed the Eject button and nothing happened, so I then pressed the On/Off button, it shut down and when turned on again, it ejected the holder. After that, I tried to operate the scanner with MSU and the error appeared.

<br><br>

How did you solve it? I cannot seem to be able to make the holder to catch again. It just bounces like when the scanner is not ready. However, the green light is on continously.

<br><br>

How did you reset it with <Ctrl><Shift>&ltI>? If I fire MSU, it just gives me the same message <i>"Error = 50, A holder error has occurred. Open the front door of the scanner [Accept] [Cancel]"</i>. If I open the front door with my finger, the scanner goes cycling like trying to calibrate, and the green diode flashes, endlessly.

<br><br>

If I click on [Accept] while holding the door open nothing happens. It just goes on and on. I tried pushing a holder with the scanner off, all the way in and it ejects it naturally at turn on, but problem remains the same.

<br><br>

Unfortunately, I've got a bundle invested in this darned scanner (SilverFast Ai, VueScan Pro, extra holders), otherwise I might not bother with it. On the other hand, I don't think there's another 35mm scanner that equals its resolution. What do you think of the Epson V750? The 4990?

Thanks for any suggestions you can make.

[jorge]

PS,

 

Mendel, I will be away traveling, from tomorrow morning and until Monday. While I'll carry a notebook with me, I may not be able to get a connection (hotel services are spotty in this country) and besides, I won't have access to the scanner. Please don't attribute any lack of response to rudeness. :-)

[ivan_dzo]

The transport mechanism in these seems to be their real Achille's heel. Great results but shoddy mechanism. I've got the same one and it lives on my desk with the cover permanently off. Typically since then it's behaved better, but I've had to unjam it a couple of times so I don't trust it. I'm sure if I put the cover back on it will jam again. Still scans great though.

[crabseye]

You might consider downloading the latest software too. Probably won't fix a holder problem, but may help with other subtle issues.

 

http://www.konicaminoltasupport.com/Software.3097.0.html?&L=0

[znabal]

I also recently had this problem with my Minolta DSE 5400. My first one also went back to the factory under warranty with the same problems as your first one. I was skeptical about the "cntrl + shift + i" working since the grinding noises etc all seemed to be obvious hardware problems. Desperate, I tried it, pressing the keyboard combination while the scanning software was loading (I use KM supplied software) and it did end up working. good luck, jeffl

[john_brewton]

Hello Jorge! Sony is now servicing the 5400. I called them and was redirected to (drum roll please)...the old Minolta service center! How long this will last is anybody's guess. If I was going for an alternative I'd go Nikon. Just like everyone else, my first one went back but after repair has worked flawlessly. By the way, did Minolta ever update the software for 16 bit scans? I know the 5400 II does but what about the original unit? I tried out SilverFast and it was fantastic but the price for the good one is over $200. A little steep in my opinion. Nice to see you're still around, Jorge. Hasta la vista.

[glen peterson]

My 5400, has had a lot of problems. When it works, it's great. My problems involve the whining noise, inability to take the neg or slide holder in, etc.. I'm not sure what I do to get it to work, but it is always a long process. I've found, that if I keep the USB cable disconnected, and only connect and power up when I'm ready to use it, I have fewer problems. Maybe someone will come up with a real fix, and let us know.

 

I have the original scan elite f2900, which never had a problem. I keep it as an emergency backup, but I just don't want to install the scsi card into my new pc if I don't have to. And my epson 4870 is just not up to par when it comes to 35mm.

[mike_r.1]

I can't help you with the hardware problem but I can answer your question re: the Epson 4990. The detail level is just not there compared to the 5400; but the image quality is quite high (contrast & colors etc). Also, I find DOF to be a real issue with the Epson; more so than with the 5400.

[mendel_leisk]

If the depth of focus on the 4990 is worse than the 5400, that's not saying a lot, LOL.

 

I think coming from the 5400 it would be a letdown using any of the flatbeds.

 

Jorge, as far as I can tell, my scanner was attempting a (re)calibration when it pull the holder in. As I said, when I stopped interfacing it with Vuescan, that problem did not repeat.

 

Are you using Silverfast or Minolta Scan Utility? Maybe SF is screwing it up? I don't think it so much a mechanical problem as a confused software problem, just my guess. Like the message to put the door in the "35mm postion", that makes no sense with the 5400.

[john_brewton]

Glen, when I got a new computer the 5400 wouldn't work. When I called tech help they told me to unplug all USB devices from my computer (except the mouse) and to use one of the rear ports, not a front one. Something to do with the 5400 power requirements I suppose. Anyway it works like a charm as long as everything else is unplugged.

[jorge]

Guys, I'm back and -while I'm at the office- tonight I'll attempt reviving the 5400. <br><br>

For starters, let me say that I may have worsened the problem: Figuring that the scanner was attempting to eject a holder, I (very carefully) <b>inserted a film-strip holder with the scanner off. Now it won't eject it!</b> (please, whatever you think, don't say it, I've already hammered me head with my shoe) I may have to disassemble it to get it out, unless I can figure a way to catch it and pull it out.

<br><br>

Now, plwase, I have several questions for all of you:

<br><br>

<u>Ivan</u>:

<br><br>

<i>>>it lives on my desk with the cover permanently off. Typically since then it's behaved better, but I've had to unjam it a couple of times so I don't trust it. I'm sure if I put the cover back on it will jam again<<</i>

<br><br>

How do you take the cover(s) out? What screws/bolts/fasteners are involved? Once opened, how do you unjam it?

<br><br>

<u>Notmy</u>:

<br><br>

I think I already have that (1.1.5). However, for safety's sake I've downloaded and I'll reinstall. Better safe that s...

<br><br>

<u>Jeff</u>:

<br><br>

<i>>>I was skeptical about the "cntrl + shift + i" working since the grinding noises etc all seemed to be obvious hardware problems. Desperate, I tried it, pressing the keyboard combination while the scanning software was loading (I use KM supplied software) and it did end up working.</i>

<br><br>

VueScan and Silverfast have been mentioned as possible culprits. I was indeed using VueScan at the moment of the jam. I also have SF 6Ai but I don't use it as much recently as the latest versions have caused several scan aborts and I've been lazy about cleaning up the system to reinstall an older version.

<br><br>

My question in this case is when exactly to use the <Ctrl><Alt><I> combo. When I fire-up Minolta Dimage Scan it tries to load for a second or two before presenting the error dialog about the holder prob. I tried pressing <Ctrl><Alt><I> just before that and nothing happened. Ditto afterwards. ¿Any ideas?

<br><br>

<u>John B.</u>:

<br><br>

Thanks for the welcome!

<br><br>

<i>>>Sony is now servicing the 5400. I called them and was redirected to (drum roll please)...the old Minolta service center!<<</i>

<br><br>

Would you have a contact address? phone, email? I have the dimmest opinion about KM service but they may be my last resource. I'm not in the position to budget a new 35mm scanner for a several months (I'm paying for a daughter's wedding next month) and the nearest options would be one of the two 4000dpi Nikons. A big gouge in the best case and probably a step back in performance.

<br><br>

<u>Glen</u>:

<br><br>

Wouldn't switching off the scanner have the same effect as disconnecting the USB cable? That's what I do. I don't turn the scanner on untill I need it and then switch it off -before the PC- when I'm done.

<br><br>

OTOH, does anyone have an opinion on the relative merits in speed or reliability of using the Firewire connection instead? I've been using the USB one 'cos a computer techie sweared to me that USB2 was as fast as Firewire but more reliable. I have a FW port in my PC that's unused.

<br><br>

<u>Mike</u>:

<br><br>

<i>>>re: the Epson 4990. The detail level is just not there compared to the 5400; but the image quality is quite high (contrast & colors etc). Also, I find DOF to be a real issue with the Epson; more so than with the 5400.<<</i>

<br><br>

I had figured that the 5400 perform would be a hard act to beat. This quirky piece of junk really beat even my best enlarger lenses (a Schneider Componon and El-Nikkor 50mm) at their sweetest apertures in resolving power, and that was even putting up with the dismal Minolta film holders -although when I was really picky about a scan, I would cut the frame and place it in a glass frame and focus manually. OTOH, I'm not really using the full resolution of the 5400 for 90% of my shooting, which is done in B&W and goes to the darkroom for enlarging. However, I have ceased doing color chemical printing, since I found out that I could ever match in the darkroom the color purity of a good scan mated to a well profiled printer.

<br><br>

The DOF 4990 issue may be tackled with judicious adjusting of the holders, or maybe by biting the bullet and going for the v750 instead. What do you think? Vincent Oliver seems to have a good opinion of this scanner put against the Nikon V. Of course that it wouldn't compare to the 5400 but in any case it would allow several feats beyond the 5400 ability, like proofing full rolls of 35 or even 120 if placed on an archive sleeve, or 24 on the holder; scanning 120 and 4x5 beyond needed dpi, which I occasionally do and most important, having a reliable gadget that behaves as expected even if a bit lackluster in the sharpness dept.

<br><br>

I'm beginning to equate the 5400 to a race car and the flatbed epsons to high end performance sedans (Lambo Murcielago vs. Audi S8 or Porsche Cayenne Turbo S).

<br><br>

<u>Glen & Mendel</u>:

<br><br>

Yes, as stated above, I am using SF and VS (or should rather say have used, 'cos I aint doing it anymore, ever!, promise!) My big Q, now, is how to unjam the bugger and what to do to get it to work again, short of sending it to Sony/Minolta/Konica/whatever authorized repair facility -providing I'm able to contact them. Tonight I'll attemp all my mechanical skills at opening it and see if there's anything "user serviceable", something that I doubt very much, other than getting the stuck holder out. :-(

<br><br>

Again, many thanks for trying to help me out of this <i>jam</i>.

[mendel_leisk]

I've had mine open a few times. It's pretty straightforward. Just turn it upside down. A couple of screws for each leg base, and then you're down to the real screws on the bottom. And the back has maybe 4 more. Right side up, the case slides back and up, mostly back.

 

Inside, smaller screws secure 2 layers of frame. Most of the screws needing removal to lift a layer are directly adjacent to a little register pin, and/or have a daub of paint. Just take your time, lift gently, see whose still holding things down. One screw does double duty I think, holding a chrome tang down as well.

 

As you get the layers free, you can kind of fold them back, with the ribbon and individual wires still attached. It's an eye-opener. Look for the grain dissolver: a very small plate of frosted glass in a pivot arm.

 

I do think you could ease the holder out *without opening, but it might help to open: to lift it off the gears a bit. While you're in there, check for lint crud where the holder runs through, and clean it as best you can, and any other dust.

 

Tipped over with it's right side facing you (which should be the case all along), there's a bar running along the bottom with a larger plastic cylinder on it. Turn this with your fingers to move the transport. Best turn it back to get the transport at the front once more, before buttoning up.

 

I think there's only 2 sizes of screws, but best to stay organized and keep them sorted as you remove them.

[jorge]

Mendel,

 

Many thanks! Opening it is effectively, as you say, quite easy. Matter of fact, before you posted your message, I managed to open it, I then pushed the holder very gently out until its end just appeared out of the scanner face. Then I connected it to the juice and -without turning up the computer- pushed the eject button. The holder came out on its own volition and the green diode started to flash. Then I turned it off again, turned the PC on and then the scanner. Fired up the Minolta scan app and -miracle!- the scanner managed completion of its boot cycle.

 

As of now, I've managed to scan a couple of batches of slides and a couple of negs. Both first without ICE and then with ICE. The first batch made some ugly whirring noises, plus quite a few unusual clicks and cracks but I think I've traced them, as well as the initial problem to a faulty slide holder; the left side clasp had a broken pin but it came out complete, although it might have been catching in one of the rails.

 

So far I've only tested it at 1350dpi but I guess higher resolutions should be ok too.

 

I still haven't closed it and will probably attempt to check that everything is fine before closing it up. Specially a visual inspection to rule out a stripped gear, although that will mean going "deeper" into the bugger.

 

In any case, it seems to be working and if I have to send it in, I've checked that Sony will repair it for a flat fee of $111, much cheaper than replacing it, provided it's not been "abused", whatever they mean by that.

 

Again, many thanks to you and the rest of the guys for the kind help. Right now is a bad time to be spending in a new scanner and I do need it. :-)

 

BTW, Now that Minolta has folded, there seems to be a severe thinning of dedicated film scanner options. Is this one more of the death tolls for film? I refuse to junk all my cameras!

[jorge]

Mendel,

 

It seems I sung victory too soon. Right after I wrote my previous message, the scanner refused again to eject the holder.

 

Back to the workbench, following your fine instructions: I removed the two gray frames (five screws on the first and four on the second; thanks for mentioning the silver tang).

 

This time I think I found the culprit: underneath the second frame are a series of cooper leaf-springs -or contacts? One was badly bent out of shape. Apparently, it catched on one of the holders -cannot be sure which now- and provoked all the trouble.

 

I reshaped it as best I could with a pair of needlenose pliers and in the meanwhile also checked all the gears (none broken <pheew!>); cleaned the rails of lint and debris with some stiff artist brushes and generally cleaned the innards as well as I could, using compressed air to blow dust off the mirror and unaccesible parts.

 

Then reassembled the scanner minus the cover and it is so far working fine, although the grain-disolver arm doesn't seem to close all the way. There are two stops for the arm seen from the outside (magnets?). The innermost stop is for the GD-off position of the arm, and the arm does go there if the GD selection is off, but when the GD selection is on, the arm just stays almost in the middle. I cannot see much of a difference, thus I'd appreciate if you noticed and remember if the arm should rest on the front-side (left as seen by one) when the GD button is on.

 

I will now put the covers back on and pray for the best.

 

Thanks a bunch once again.

 

Jorge.

[mendel_leisk]

Hi Jorge, just checked back on this thread. Interesting about the bent tang, that was likely the cause of the stuck holder. I'll keep that in mind. Regarding the GD, I can't recollect the positions exactly of the arm, and never powered it up while open. The glass portion is quite narrow I recall, and needs to be in front of the light source. If it's not travelling far enough to do that, something could be wrong. Try a straight scan, then one with the GD, and compare. The straight time should be around 2 min., the GD (no ice) around 4 min. Also, the grain appearance should be noticeably muted.

 

If the arm's travel is not getting the GD in front of the light source, I think you'd notice: the scan times would stay short, or the scan would be overexposed. And the grain would not change.

 

I'm guessing it's ok, but post back with any news.

[jorge]

Mendel, thanks. Just got to read your message and will try to put the scanner to your suggested tests tonight. I'll be back with my findings as soon as I can assert one thing or the other.

[rick_mason]

<p>Wee Hee! I love you guys, I just tried the "cntrl + shift + i" trick on my totally jammed nrealy in the bin Dimage and it WORKED! I did it as I loaded the software and all of a sudden it started making its normal whining noices and the jam seems to have cleared. Thanks so much</p>