Shooting Gymnastics without flash

[suzy_switzer]

I have recently been asked if I would consider photographing a local

Gymnastics Tournament. I have never done so before (and they are aware of

this) but they insist that they will only need coverage of the "beam work".

It is being held in a local school gymnasium and I am just not sure if the

equipment that I have right now is capable of it or not. I certainly don't

want to accept the contract if my equipment simply won't perform for me. I

have a Nikon D70 with a Tamron AF 28-80mm 1:3.5-6.6 as well as a Tamron AF 70-

300mm 1:4-5.6. I suspect that what I have just isn't fast enough, but thought

I would check. If my equipment doesn't have "what it takes"....I could use

some suggestions as to what I would need to pick up to make it possible.

Thanks for any help everyone!

[craig_gillette]

To be sure, you could arrange a preview of the gym with competition lighting on. Although I'd expect you are right, that you'd want faster lenses. If nothing else, you can use the lenses you have to judge if your focal lengths are suitable depending on where you'll be working from. The 70-200/2.8 types are commonly used for indoor sports, but you can get faster primes in the 50mm, 85mm, 135mm and 200mm focal lengths, and they may be available for rent as well. You may want to see about renting another body, perhaps one of the faster "pro" bodies to pick up speed on focus and frames per second. That way you've got a "spare" although you might want to be sure you are familiar enough with it and to use it as the primary body.

[bruce_rubenstein___nyc]

Go to the gym, check out the lighting. You're going to need a shutter speed of 1/250 sec to come close to freezing action. If there isn't enough light for 1/250 sec, @ ISO 1600, with your lens wide open you won't get much. There's a reason why these thing are shot on f2.8 lenses. In addition, "local school gyms" probably don't have very bright gyms.

[dan_brown4]

"TV Lighting" in professional sports arenas (these are bright) will get you 1/500 second at

f2.8 and ISO 1600. Or, 1/250 sec at f2.8 and ISO 800. It goes down from there. High

school? You'll be lucky to get 2-stops lower light levels. Something has to give. You have

to hold some shutter speed, and the images get pretty noisy above ISO 800. You need a

faster lens. Try the 50/1.8, and get bold about taking agressive shooting positions.

 

Good luck.

[ShunCheung]

IMO, you neither have the fast lenses nor the DSLR body for fast AF under dim indoor light. If there are no particular expectations for results such that you can do "the best you can," this may be an OK arrangement. If you are expected to turn in pretty high-quality images, hopefully you can rent some equipment for this job. A 50mm/f1.8 is very affordable but perhaps not nearly long enough. A 200mm/f2 is super expensive, and even a 70-200mm/f2.8 is not exactly cheap either.

[mark u]

I think you're going to need f/1.8 or faster primes. Since they have asked you to shoot, I imagine you can get good access such that 50mm and maybe 85mm is all you will need. F/2.8 is almost certainly too slow for school gyms, and the extra speed and background blur of something faster won't hurt. Make sure you have some good noise reduction software - it will make a big difference to 1600 ISO images. Don't be tempted to underexpose your shots at all. You'll find more advice about shooting in school gyms in the Sports forum:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/forum?topic_id=2081

[elliot1]

Why can't you use a flash?

[ShunCheung]

In sports photography, a flash can be really annoying to the athletes, who need to concentrate on their routine.

 

Speaking of flash photography on a balance beam, I have seen multiple flash exposures when the gymnist moves from one end of the beam to another. If you can try that during practice, you could be some really cool effects.

[stephen_fassman]

When shooting a mid afternoon outdoor football game, where half the field was in

shadows: my D200, 180/2.8/ Shutter priority set at 1/320+ auto iso to maintain the

320@2.8 in the shade+ group dynamic focus + 3 FPS Continuous Tracking mode was the

ticket. Put this all together & I got some greatI ball/players frozen in a mid air ballet. Your

camera needs the quick reflexs of all these systems that a D200 offers. My only wish was

for a 300/2.8

I also have a D70 whose systems do not compare in processing speed, let alone in

integrating them. You will need a fast lens indoors. You can try the above camera setup.

You'll have to shoot with freezing peak motion in mind, when the gymnast is at an apex of

motion whether facing you or at right angles. Or pan & shoot while the subject is in lateral

motion. Somersaults, flips, spins, etc., will need at least 1/500. (Ever freeze a helicopter

prop?) You can even try a deliberate blurred motion with 1/8 - 1/4 sec speeds. but you'll

need a tripod and remote release. Just a few ideas to help.

[lex_jenkins]

A few factors probably eliminate the need for a fast long telephoto or zoom:

 

1. It's a school gym, not the Olympics.

 

2. You've been invited to be the photographer.

 

3. You probably won't have any serious competition so there won't be much need to worry about bumping elbows with other photojournalists.

 

I'm betting you can get by with an inexpensive 50/1.8 AF Nikkor, a very good lens and only around a hundred bucks new. The 85/1.8 AF Nikkor will cost more but is still reasonably priced and will give you more reach.

 

The best bargain in a fast autofocus Nikkor zoom remains the 35-70/2.8 AF Nikkor. Very, very sharp. 35mm isn't wide on our dSLRs (it's more like a "normal" focal length), but even in cramped indoor sessions I find myself using this zoom more than my others that go to 28mm, 24mm and 18mm wide. And for moderate distance shooting, such as in school gyms, it's just about perfect.

 

You might want to consider trading up to one of the faster f/2.8 third party midrange zooms in the 28-85mm or so focal range from Tokina, Tamron, etc.

 

As Dan said you'll need to shoot at ISO 800 or higher. The noise can easily be handled with Noise Ninja or other noise reduction software. You can get functional trial versions of Noise Ninja and others online.

 

The D70 won't autofocus as quickly as the D2H, D2X, F6, etc., especially with the somewhat slower focusing AF lenses (rather than the AF-S types), but I'll bet you'll still get plenty of good shots. If you have trouble with autofocusing you can try manually prefocusing on a spot. Take lots of shots to improve your odds.

 

You'll also want to get the white balance right, at least if you plan to use JPEGs straight from the camera. Some school gyms can be tricky to white balance depending on the quality of the lights.

[suzy_switzer]

Wow - I didn't expect so much info in such a short time!

 

 

Thanks....I have dug up some of my "older" equipment (aka - film cameras) and I found a AF Nikkor 50mm 1:1.8. Other than the lack of reach/zooming capabilities, could this do the trick?

 

Also, I was wondering if you had any tips on getting the white balance right in a school gym. I have heard from a number of people that it's going to be tricky.

[sonya brady]

I agree with Shun's first comment. Has anyone ever been in a school gymnasium.....its like shooting in a dungeon ha ha. I also agree with the point that you have to decide based on the work you are expected to produce. If all you need is a few pics for the local black and white bulletin board and a "do your best" is good enough then go for it but if you are expected to produce high quality images, you will need to rent some equipment......and even then you might want to re-think taking a contract. You see I once went out to shoot an extreme bike competition for a friend. Although I had both the skills and equipment to shoot in those conditions, I was unhappy with the results as I just wasn't used to shooting sports photography..... I mean any good photographer can shoot a number of varied situations but I wasn't versed in sports photography and didn't always know the best place to place myself etc. I am picky but if that had been a paid job, I would have not been happy with the quality of the work....the point Im gettin at is the Im not sure what kind of contract they have going there but usually paid positions have a level of image quality expected and even with the right equipment in those circumstances that can still be very challenging to acheive. If it is not a paid thing and they just want a few images for internal use or something along those lines....then Id still say rent some equipment and go for it. Hope that helps....I just know sports photography sometimes takes a while to get the hang of even if its indoors.

[ShunCheung]

If Lex and other's assumption that you can photograph from relatively close during competition is correct, maybe a 50mm would work. In that case a brand new 50mm/f1.8 is only $100 and is certainly a viable option.

 

But we don't know what the rules are.

[suzy_switzer]

I will contact the officials and see how close they will let me get. I was hoping to be able to get a chance to get into the school gym as well. I think I may see if they will just allow me to be there and take pictures this year with no expectations (to "try my best") and if I get good results, then I will dive into it head first next year. I have to admit that it DOES make me nervous not having done this sort of thing before, but I have to start somewhere right?

[bob_flood1]

I really think you need to get into that gym with the 50/1.8 and take a few shots. You need to be there when there is someone else there, too - you need a subject. Not only will you learn the exposure conditions, but you need to learn what kind of color bias you'll get from those lights (the skin tones of the subject are vital for this). Then you need to experiment on how you can correct for it.

 

I also think that if you haven't done this sort of thing before, it will be better for your future if you do this as an unpaid gig. If it goes well, you'll get plenty of word-of-mouth advertising out of it, but if you struggle with this first effort, the paying customer will spread the wrong kind of word-of-mouth. Much less likely if they haven't paid for the service.

[photo5]

You don't need AF to shoot this event. Pre-focus on where the action will happen and fire

away. Your D70 is more than fast enough for this kind of event.

 

Sometimes I think the NAS addicts on this forum think nothing will work for fast action

except a Nikon D2H or D2X!!

 

Dave

[Jerry_]

If you borrow a D80 body, then find a AF 85mm f1.4D Nikkor lens. Shooting at ISO 3200 will be better than expected.... [High school wrestling matches in the school gym turn out fine, no flash.]

[lex_jenkins]

Here's a typical example from my niece's school gym when they don't turn on all the lights. Not great but it'll pass.

 

D2H, 35-70/2.8 AF Nikkor, ISO 1600, 1/250 @ f/2.8, no flash. JPEG Fine capture, auto everything (including white balance because I forgot to bring a white/gray card). Auto white balance works well with the D2H and SB-800, not so well without flash in some gym lighting. But the custom white balance sensor on the D2H prism doesn't work with most gym lighting or fluorescent lighting either so it's still a good idea to white balance through the lens.<div></div>

[bourboncowboy]

My shots turn out similar to the one Lex posted. I shoot with a D200 and use the same settings with either the 28-70 or 70-200. If you look closely, you'll see the same slight problem I find with my shots...noise. I highly recommend Noise Ninja - or a similar program. I would suggest (as previous posters have) that you consider some 1.8 lenses. The 50mm and 85mm 1.8 lenses produce sharp images, and won't break the bank. Good Luck!

[Uhooru]

I wonder if you will want to get that close to the beam to use a 50, it might intrude on the peformer. I would rent a 70-200 2.8 and the advice above re Iso's and speeds etc. sounds reasonable to me.

[ShunCheung]

One thing to keep in mind is that Lex's D2H has currently Nikon's best AF system (Multi-CAM 2000) while the D70 has the 3rd best (Multi-CAM 900). For balance beam events, since the gynmist's position is largely restricted by the beam, if your camera (sensor plane) is parallel to the beam so that the subject's distance doesn't change much, you may be able to get away without really good AF. If the photographer needs to be near the two ends of the beam such that the distance between you and the subject chances constantly, focusing will be a lot more demanding.

 

You really should not get too close to the beam. If the gynmist falls in the middle of the routine or especially they don't stick a landing, potentially they could stumble a couple of steps and crash into you. I would imagine that the organizer and coaches will make sure that you shoot from a safe distance.

[tim_knight]

Do you have time to shoot a local high school meet before the Tournament?

I have shot basketball and volleyball pictures of my daughter at our local gym with my D50 using the 50/1.8 lens. I am able to sit on the bottom seats that are right along the floor. I have gotten some very good shots. I also have cropped some of the pictures and still end up with very good pictures. I have considered getting the 85/1.8 lens for the extra zoom. If you have it in your plans to buy a Nikon 80-200/2.8 lens for future use this might be just enough of a reason to rent or buy it for sport pictures. I have a friend who shoots with a Sigma 70-200/2.8 and is making good money off of sport pictures at State Tournaments. Good luck with the new venture, you will only learn new methods of photography buy trying.

[michael_fylyshtan]

I would have to agree with "do your best and keep the expectations real". I have covered gymnastics with my three girls at a pre-national level for over six years now.

 

And after tens of thousands of shots if you get one in ten shots things are good. Its easy to shoot over five thousand photos in a three day weekend competition.

 

While a faster camera and lens help I find that the experience of anticipation the most useful. I currently run a D2Xs with 2.8 zoom lens. I particularly enjoy the adventage of the zoom to vary the framing (hence the zoom) if only general expectations are required a prime is faster and works.

 

Most of the time you will not be able to get overly close to the events as the judges require a line of site. Most of the time you will want to frame the entire body (to show the skills), while tight is nice practice will teach you when to catch these.

 

I would recommend a faster zoom for you situation, visit a local gym club and see if you can practice (settings and framing). And something not mentioned get lots of flash cards or bring a laptop to download.

 

Summary: faster camera/lenses, flashcards, laptop and lots of practice.

 

Still have questions drop me a line at fylyshtan@steadicam.ca and view some samples at www.pulsarsgymnastics.com.<div></div>

[james_martin9]

I also agree that you would want to use the fastest lens possible. Depending on the distance, you may want to rent a 70-200 2.8, or even something faster if possible. Regardless of whetner they expect "pro" results or not, you will want to produce the best images possible. The best solution for white balance would be the measure the actual color temperature of the gym and set the WB manually; however, that is impractical. In lieu of that, try to get into the gym and compose some test shots to play with the WB until you get it right.

[John Crowe]

Forget any f2.8 lens! Use the 50/1.8 that you have and then crop if necessary. Use it wide open with the lowest possible ISO, while maintaining at least 1/250 sec. You may even get into the ISO 400 to 800 range, making cropping much better. I have shot school gym volleyball/basketball with a 50/1.8 which was too short, and a 200/2 which was too long for the most part. You should be able to get closer to the action, and it is not as random.

 

 

Experiment with autofocus and manual focus to see which works best for you. Good luck.