Indoor arena sport lens?

[Rene11664880918]

Hello everybody! I hope you guys can help me.

Maybe some of you saw my messages about a month ago. The thing is I bought a

D80 with a standard zoom lens 18-70mm F3.5-4.5 I?ve been learning to use it

since it is my first SLR digital camera. So far I had only used film with

manual focus lenses. Well, I?m so happy with my D80 and I would recommend it

to any body. Last Saturday I went to see my son play basketball coz he had a

tournament and of course I brought my camera. The problem is that we can?t use

flash and using the lens at 70mm the 4.5 aperture didn?t help at all. I set

the ASA at 1600 but the best speed I could get was about 80 therefore out of

about 300 pictures I ended up with maybe only 30 and I had to work on every

single one in Photoshop. Well, I need a better lens for taking his pictures.

I look at the Nikon catalogue and I found the next lenses that I think I could

use:

1- 85mm F1.8 for about $500.00

2- 105mm F2 for about $1,300.00

3- 135mm F2 for about $1,500.00

These are the retail prices in Japan, I can get maybe 20% to 30% discount.

But according to Nikon these are portrait lenses.

Are they any good for sports? (Basketball)

I also found Tamron 90mm F2.8 for about $500.00

A Sigma 50-150 F2.8 for about $950.00 and another Sigma 70-200 F2.8 for about

$1,200.00

Once I had a bad experience with a lens. So far I had only used manual Canon

cameras (T90 and AE1 Program) with Canon lenses ONLY. But once I bought in the

USA an Osawa lens and after I developed the film I never used that lens again

and I kept buying only Canon lenses. Would I be disappointed with Sigma or

Tamron? Are they any good?

Also an aperture of around 2.8 would work fine in a gymnasium? I need to get

an speed of at least 200 I think. (I wish I could get an speed of 500 but I

wouldn't be able to aford the lens).

I?m sorry this became too long but I want to make sure I?m happy with the lens

I buy. Thank you for your patient and your help!

[2yellowdogs]

Rene,<br>

The single most-used (and most useful) lens for shooting indoor sports is the 70-200 (or 80-200) f2.8. It gives you the most useful zoom range to cover most of the action and the fixed 2.8 aperture allows you to use faster shutter speeds.</p>

 

In the Nikon range, you have two options - the 80-200 ED IF and the 70-200 AF-S VR. Both excellent lenses with the 70-200 considerably more expensive, as you might expect. The one third party lens you may want to consider is the Sigma 70-200 HSM. Very well built with good image quality.</p>

 

You can save a considerable amount of money by buying one of the above used. These lenses are built like tanks and will last you for decades if bought in good condition. </p>

 

Using an f2.8 lens to shoot basketball (or volleyball, hockey, etc.) will usually allow you to shoot at around 1/250 at iso800 or 1/400 at iso1600. The lighting conditions in indoor venues where high school kids play are uniformly awful. The above speed/iso combinations will get you very useable results, though.</p>

 

Good luck and post some of your work here for us.<div></div>

[mark u]

I'm less optimistic than Dan about lighting levels for indoor school gyms. I think you will do best if a) you get courtside so that you can take shots from lower, more dramatic angles, and b) you use a 50mm f/1.4 or f/1.8 and an 85mm f/1.8 as your main lenses. Even so, I suspect you'll end up shooting 1600 ISO at f/2 to get fast enough shutter speeds to freeze motion. Take a look at some of the basket ball threads in the Sports forum:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00JGUI&tag=

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00J60m&tag=

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a?topic_id=2081&category=uncategorized

[Rene11664880918]

Dan & Mark! Hey! Thanks for your fast reply! let me start by saying that I wouldn't call it "my work" but yeah! I should had posted a few pictures so I could get better advice from you. So, let me figure out how to post the pictures! On the Internet I checked already the price of the lenses you mention. The 70-200 AF-SO VRML is out of the question, it has a retail price of about $2.840.00 and I don't think my son is that good! The 80-200 ED IF is about $1.620.00 and I can get it for less than $1.200.00 The Sigma 70-200 HAM goes for about $1.500.00 and I don't know how much I can get it for. I will look for a use one as you said to know the price. Also mark, we are not aloud in the court here in Japan. Only the teams and referees and of course the press. I'm not sure what the rules in High school are but my son is just in the 8th grade right now and the gyms are dark and small. also usually they have 2 or 3 games going on at the same time depending of the sizes of the gym as you can see in a couples of shots there. These pics than I will try to post I don't have the complete data but I know I had the lens set at 70mm and the speed was on the 60 and 80, going up and down constantly. Also I forgot and I fixed them with Photoshop and didn't make a copy. So what you see here it's been retouched already.

 

http://www.miyaishi.com/DSC_0357.jpg

http://www.miyaishi.com/DSC_0358.jpg

http://www.miyaishi.com/DSC_0440.jpg

http://www.miyaishi.com/DSC_0446.jpg

http://www.miyaishi.com/DSC_0456.jpg

 

I couldn't download all the pictures at once here so I downloaded them on my domein. I just hope the links work. Sorry!

[2yellowdogs]

Rene, the light doesn't look too bad, considering that the photos you attached were shot with the 18-70 kit lens. Your results should improve with one of the lenses I mentioned. If you can't get down on the court at one end, sit as low and close to the court as you can. I think you'll like the shots from that angle better than those you're getting from above.

 

Lens prices seem to be considerably higher in Japan. I don't know if they ship overseas, but check out KEH.com for good used equipment. Their bargain grade is typically indistinguishable from new. You can get the Sigma lens for around $500, the 80-200 for about $700, an 80-200 AF-S for about $900 and the 70-200 VR for around $1500 (it's only $1600 brand new).

[mark u]

If you were getting 1/80th at f/4.5 you would get 1/200th at f/2.8, but 1/500th at f/1.8 - all at 1600 ISO. However, it looks to me as though really your shots are a little underexposed, so in practice you might be really at say 1/350th at f/1.8 and 1/125th-1/150th at f/2.8. I'd seriously recommend the fast prime over the zoom.

 

Talk to the school about getting a press pass.

[Rene11664880918]

Dan, Mark, how are you guys? I'm sorry to be such a pain in the neck but I'm so unfamiliar with the Nikon system and auto focus system in general. I went to my local camera shop. They have in stock the AF-S VR ED 70-200 F2.8 but it costs around 2G's US, BUT they have a used lens Nikon AF-N 80-200 F2.8 ED It comes with 6 months warranty and the tag price is only around $300 US. I didn't buy it coz I'm sure it is an older model and I don't know the compatibility with DSLR's. I reserved it and told them I was going to bring my own camera to check it out. I'm not really trying to get professional quality shots, I just want my son one day when he is 40 years old to remember what he did. On the other hand since I'm using such a nice camera I should get decent enough pictures. If you guys have any advice about this lens I will appreciate it. If you don't recommend it I will keep looking. Thanks in advance!

[2yellowdogs]

Rene, this is undoubtedly a 'one-touch' version of the lens. It will be optically excellent and as heavy and well-built as the current versions of the lens. However, auto-focus will not be as fast as the current models. </p>

 

Here's a link to a discussion of the various models:<br>

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000nBZ&topic_id=23&topic=photo%2enet</p>

 

That doesn't mean you can't get good results with the lens, even shooting fast-action like basketball. It will just take some practice and anticipation. </p>

 

If you buy the lens (or any other 80-200, make sure you shoot with continuous AF mode (not single-servo) and use the dynamic AF type setting.

[ross nolly]

How about a used Nikkor 180 f2.8 ED IF? I bought one to use as the "poor man's" 300 f2.8, well it's nearly that on my D200 :-)

 

The lens only cost me $360 New Zealand dollars (about US$250) and in mint condition. It's razor sharp, so much that I may even shave with it!

 

Seriously though, it may not be as flexible to use as a zoom, but it's really good bang for the buck.

 

I mainly bought it for low light rodeo work etc. I don't use a long lens much so can't justify spending a wedge of cash on one.

 

Hope this helps<div></div>

[Rene11664880918]

Hello! How is every body? Well, here it is: today I drove a little bit more and went to another shop. I found the lens. I got the AF 80-200 F2.8 D (new type) I got it used, AA condition with a full year Nikon warranty for $445.00 US including the sales tax which is 5%. I think I got a good deal. Anyway, I'm not sure when my son has his next game so I gotta wait to take it for a test drive. Dan.... If I don't like the results you will owe me 400 bucks! Don't be upset if I am at your door steps in the middle of the night! He!He! If any one wants to be bother reading, here is the full story. My son and his team mates they have been playing basketball since 3rd grade in elementary school. When they were in 6th grade his team won every single game and tournament with the exception of the State finals coz they lost in the final game. In Summer they had even won the North-east championships that included 7 states. Why did they loose in the State final? Well, we live in Niigata state, Ojiya City. In October of 2004 we were hit with a quake magnitude 7. 40% of the city was destroyed. The schools and gymnasiums were used for shelter and the kids didn't train for 3 months. By the time they started training again it was 2 weeks before the state finals and they were not as good so they became second and didn't make it to the All Japan Final which was their goal. So, now here we are again. Now they are in the second year of Jr. High and they are decided to make it to the Japan finals. Kids here once they are in the 9th grade they are not aloud to play anymore coz they have to study to make it to a good High School, so they finish in May except if they qualify for the All Japan Final which is in December. So that is why I really want to get some good shoots for him to remember coz this is the end of his sport career! I hope this was not to boring! Anyway, Dan, Mark and Ross, THANKS for your advices and help! I will keep you inform and I will down load a few shots the first chance I have so you guys look at them and maybe give me some more advice! Thanks a lot really! I'll be in touch!

[Rene11664880918]

Mark! Dan! Are you guys around? My son played today and finally I got the chance to use the new glass!Well, Mark... you don't have to worry anymore coz I'm happy with the results. As you told me I set the camera on continuous and dynamic AF mode. also this time set the white balance on tungsten light instead of auto like the first time. I also set the noise filter BUT I'm not sure if I did it right. I set it on HIGH. As far as I know the shots are not great but there is a big improvement. I just have to get used to shoot basket ball games. I have a few problems.

1-. This time I was down in the court and the 80-200 was too much. I had no room to play with the zoom and it was tight.

2-. I shot JPEG and for the first time RAW too but there is so much noise. More than before. Was I supposed to set the filter in LOW?

3-. As I said I set the white balance at tungsten but I didn't want to touch the value so I left it at "0". The pictures came out a bit too blue I think, maybe not, coz the walls and the floor was blueish already, you tell me please!

4-. I was shooting on Shutter Priority mode 1/250 at F2.8 but I didn't have the time to go buy a monopod and a tripod was out of the question and the result was a lot of blurred pictures. I'll be more prepared next time.

I can't download any shots right now coz my son is playing on my desk top and my lap top will freeze if I open those pictures in here. I'll do it as soon as I can.

If you guys can tell me about those settings I will appreciate it or you can wait until you see a couple of shots.

Thanks in advance!

[Rene11664880918]

OK. Here are a few shots:

 

http://www.miyaishi.com/DSC_0833.jpg

 

This was taken as JPG and the noise level was less.

 

http://www.miyaishi.com/DSC_0867.jpg

 

From here on they are all RAW and none of them had been Photoshopped beside changing the format to JPG. Noise is much higher here. This is what I meant by being to tight. my son is almost out of the frame.

 

http://www.miyaishi.com/DSC_0869.jpg

 

This shots are not the best but they were the average. And the last shot, well, I was tired of shooting at kids, this seemed more interesting at the moment!

 

http://www.miyaishi.com/DSC_1000.jpg

 

Thanks for your advice! Regards!