Canon F-1

[james52]

I want to buy a used Canon F1 from KEH. I only have about $500, so I should be

able to get one graded ex+ . I am replacing my totally manual FTB and want

similar features (Manual F stop and shuttle speed). What would be the best F-1

model to try to get, or is there any differences?

[dave_s]

Well, which makes a better wife-- an Irish girl, or an Italian girl? (Sorry.) You'll get diverging opinions on the question of F-1s, and they're all correct. I like the latest (post-1981) version, the so-called 'F-1N'. Others are evangelists for the earlier mechanical versions.

<p>

Read <A HREF="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005brn">this old thread</A>, which discusses the differences at some length. You might pay attention to Phil Aynsley's comment near the end of the thread-- he's a former Canon tech who feels strongly about the latest version.

<p>

All three of the F-1s are excellent cameras, and they're being sold for laughably low prices nowadays. For $500, you should be able to get an F-1N that is recently overhauled and in superb condition. (You will have a hard time finding the F-1 and F-1n mechanical versions in that price range-- they're selling for $150 to 300 these days.)

[ben_hutcherson]

The F-1 and F-1n(or F-1 second style, as KEH calls it) are about as close as you're going to get operation wise to your FTb. About the only thing you lose going from an FTb to an old F-1 is the hot shoe, although you can get a hot shoe that fits over the F-1 rewind crank.

 

With that said, though, I just bought an F-1N off of Ebay with an AE finder FN and Motor Drive. This combination gives completely manual match-needle control(like your FTb), aperture priority, and shutter priority. As an interesting aside, though, I just read a minute ago in an old thread that you can get aperture priority with plain prism, too-all the AE finder does is give you a shutter speed read out.

 

The F-1N doesn't totally replace the original F-1. In particular, the F-1N doesn't have MLU, while the old F-1 and FTb(and EF) do. Also, the booster T finder, which lets you meter down to crazy low light levels(EV -3.5), isn't available for the F-1N. If you really need auto exposure, you can get the bulky Servo EE finder for the old F-1 and get shutter priority.

 

It really just comes down to a matter of preference. Although, like I said, I did just buy an F-1N, I still plan on adding an old F-1(probably F-1n) one of these days.

[walter_beck]

I have the old F-1 with a Booster T Finder and the Servo EE Finder. I still use the original F-1 without that stuff when I want to assure myself that I can still take a picture without all the electronic wizardly that my Canon A-1 has and my 20D has.

 

I will never give up that camera. I resisted the F-1N and still have no desire to get one for old times sake.

 

I also believe that the FD lenses are superior to what is being put out now. Sure they are mostly prime, but it isn't the focal length that necessarily makes the picture so I don't feel that I am missing much by not having the zooms lenses that are available now. They are also very inexpensive now :-)

 

Walter

[james52]

I am seeing two F-1N's at KEH.com. How can I tell if they are F-1n or F-1N ( the latest version and the one I want. Also what is ment by "interchangable focusing screens"?

[mad reilly]

Cameras - I'm new to this but as far as wifes go I'd have to pick German

Just my $.02

[jeff_schneider]

Yes, definitely go with the German ;-)

[yossarian]

James - click on the generic picture they offer - if it has a hotshoe it is a Canon F1-N, if not it is a Canon F1-n.

[ben_hutcherson]

An F-1N has a hotshoe and lumpy piece(like an A-1 action grip) on the right hand side. There is a small silver button on the right hand side of the lens mount. The end of the rewind crank is bent up. The shutter speed dial goes from 8 seconds to 2000, as well as having a red A and a separate flash sync setting. There may or may not be a little translucent window at the top front of the prism.

 

The old F-1 has no hot shoe. There is a combination stop down/self timer lever(like the FTb)on the right hand side. The shutter speed dial only goes from 1 to 2000, plus B.

 

The difference you're seeing is likely the difference between a plain prism and AE prism. Externally, the AE prism is slightly taller with a translucent window at the top front. It also has an arm that extends out over the shutter speed dial. According to Canon, the AE prism turns the camera into an aperture priority auto-exposure camera. When the shutter speed dial is set to A, the camera looks at the aperture selected on the lens and chooses the apropriate shutter speed. The AE prism provides a readout for the shutter speed selected, as well as an optical pipe that will let you see the aperture selected on the lens if you have a new FD lens installed. This was a trick they picked up from Nikon.

 

As I recall, at KEH currently, a BGN one with plain prism is $140, while one with an AE prism is $200. Considering that you're used to an FTb, you'd probably be perfectly happy with the plain prism and saving $60.

 

You also asked what's meant by interchangeable focusing screens. The focusing screen is basically a translucent surface that's the same distance from the lens as the film is. It's responsible for forming the image you see in the viewfinder. It can also have a variety of focusing aids on it. With the FTb, you have a microprism. With interchangeable screens, you can have anything from a plain, all-matte screen with no focusing aid to such specialized ones as four-way split images. The F-1N also allows you to change the metering pattern by changing screens. On the FTb, the meter always looks at the little silver box in the middle of the viewfinder, aprox. 12% of the image area. With the F-1N, you can go from the meter considering all of the screen, to what you're used to at 12%, to a very small 2% spot.

[awahlster]

Ben don't forget a Winder FN or Motor FN is required for AE operations on the F-1N.Read pages 29-30 of the manual. You don't get either without the winder or motor.

 

The winder or motor provides the drive for this mode.

 

And I can attest to both mine working that way which is why both have winders on their bottoms. My NAVY model is normall the Std. prism my civi version is normally AE finder. I also have the WL and Speed finders.

[ben_hutcherson]

Mark,

As I read pg. 29 of the manual, and as I've always understood things, the motor drive/power winder are only necessary for shutter priority AE. According to the manual, the AE finder FN gives you aperture priority AE. The manual says "it can be converted to automatic exposure(AE) by attaching the suitable AE accesory, such as the AE finder FN for aperture-priority AE"{p. 29). Also, on page 30, under the heading of aperture priority AE, it says "For this mode, the AE finder FN must be attached to the camera and the shutter dial set to

'A.'"

 

As I don't yet have my F-1N(it's a Christmas Present, so I'll have it on Monday), I can't confirm, but I have been reading the manual and about everything else I can get my hands on lately.

 

According to an onld post to this forum by a retired Canon tech, you don't even need an AE finder to get aperture priority. According to him, if you set the shutter speed dial to A with any of the finders and dial in an aperture on the lens, the camera will still give you teh correct exposure. He said that all the AE finder does is give you a shutter speed readout.

[gnashings]

Ben, you're right - the motor drive is only needed for shutter priority.

I have a perfectly serviceable New F1 (the latest one, the big N) with the regular prism and it cost less than $140 on eBay. It is not perfect cosmetically speaking, but it works. If you must blow $500 on a camera body, you should be able to get the latest F1N with an AE prism AND the motor drive AND some other odds and ends.

 

For very, very extensive information on the New F1 go here:

 

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/canonf1n/index.htm

 

Once there, you will find links to similar write ups on just about any Canon SLR you like, including the other F1's. My personal opinion is that you really can't go wrong with these robust, well designed cameras.

 

Or, you could do the smart thing: spend the going rate on a serviceable body (probably less than $300 even in better than average shape) and then spend the rest on glass. You can never have enough glass, and money spend on glass is ALWAYS money better spend than money spend on bodies.

[keith_lubow]

Hello,

 

I like the new models, from the '80's. They are great cameras. However, when it comes down to it, I think the older models are a [slightly] better way to go, overall.

 

1. Parts and accessories (and bodies) are cheaper, while performance is pretty much similar. The older ones certainly feel better-built, for what that's worth. If you need automatic exposure, then you have to go with the new model, unless you get the special Electric Eye prism and winder that adds shutter priority AE to your old F-1. However, if you will never use automatic exposure, there is no need for the newer model.

 

2. Unfortunately, parts are not interchangeable from old to new F-1s.From my own perspective, I am already way into my old F-1 system with prisms, winders, etc., and switching would be cost prohibitive. I mention this because you have to look at it as not just buying a camera body, but buying into an entire system of accessories. Compare the prices of accessories you are likely to buy before you make your decision. I say go for the old F-1 (preferably "2nd model"), and if you really need AE, carry an A-1, or get the Electric Eye prism. This is what I do, if you care: I have an F-1 and an FTb, both of which I usually carry together. Sometimes I bring a Pellix, with a 55 1.2 and shoot wide open with that for concerts. I have a second F-1 and a second FTb that I came across them with a lot of lenses. These are just there in case one camera has to go to the shop.

 

3. There is less to break. Electronic problems will be minimal, if at all. You can get the work done a lot more cheaply, and learn to do some of it yourself, if you are so inclined. The '80's version is a little less serviceman friendly. I completely overhaul every Canon body that I plan on using extensively. I tell Ed Wong at Whilton Camera in Pasadena to make it as close to brand new as he can make it, and he does a bang-up job for only $170. This uncludes light seals, CLA, shutter replacement if needed for an extra $25, shutter brake replacement, shutter adjustment, light meter calibration, etc. Afterward, the camera is like brand new, minus the exterior wear. You can get a mildly worn F-1 for $100 to $150, spend $150 to $200 for a total tune up like this, and be better off than buying one that has "just been CLAd" off of EBay for $250 to $300. You know exactly what work has been done to it, and will spend less in the long run, unless you happen upon a gem on EBay. Doing this with the new model F-1s is still an option, but not as cost effective.

 

4. KEH runs pretty high. Shop around locally first. I found my main camera in a pawn shop with a Vivitar 28-90 2.8-3.5 zoom (a thoroughly usable lens) for $99.

 

5. The main thing you gain with an F-1 over an FTb is the system of accessories. You also get a tougher camera (although the FTb is no weakling) and one faster shutter speed. You may be better off spending that dough on some beautiful glass, especially if you don't think you'll use any acessories (focusing screens, prisms, winders, etc).

 

6. The Nikon F system is also another outstanding alternative if you are not already entrenched in Canon lenses, like me. The F-2 is perhaps the best SLR ever built, in my opinion.

 

Whichever way you go, you will have a great camera.

 

Keith

[douglas_vitello]

I have owner both (F1n & F1N) and would vote for the latest version.Much brighter focusing screens (laser matte) and rarely do the focusing aids black out,built in lighting of the metering display is a plus too.The metering photo cell in the latest version is much more responsive especially in low light.The latest version uses a standard PX 28 (that fits all my "A" series cameras used as back ups)and can be purchased at most local drug stores.Most repair parts can still be found,though neither unit breaks down very often if CLA's are done on a routine basis.

[sergio_ortega7]

I recently got a Canon F-1N as part of an outfit at a really good price. I always wanted one of these cameras from the time I was a kid, studying the back pages of PopPhoto and Shutterbug, making wish lists of all the equipment I'd like to have someday.

 

Up to the point I got the F-1N, I always thought the Nikon F3HP and F2AS were the best 35mm manual focus SLR cameras ever made. I have to say after using the Canon for a while, the F-1N is one incredibly well-made, intelligently designed, beautiful and impressive camera.

 

The F-1N (with AE finder) I have came with a spot-metering screen, as well as the overall averaging metering screen. In my opinion, the F-1N is absolutely the perfect camera for using spot-metering and manual exposure settings. The layout of the shutter speed display, the vertical aperture scale with match needle, and the handy (and very bright...unlike the Nikons) optional illumination lamp for the readouts makes for a perfect and intuitive viewfinder display when using the spotmeter. For years I wished my F3HP and F2AS had spot-metering capability; the canon F-1N has it.

 

Unfortunately, what the Canon F-1N does not have is AE exposure lock capability. I find that the AE capability is pretty much useless without this feature, particularly if using the spot-metering screen. It would be really quick and easy to be able to read a particular area of the scene, lock the AE exposure, re-compose and then shoot. With the averaging screen the lack of AE lock is not as big a deal, but even then it would be quite useful. I don't understand why Canon failed to include this feature in a body with AE capability. This is my main criticism of the Canon F-1N.

 

In comparison to the Nikons mentioned, the F-1N shutter also sounds much quieter and feels like it produces far less vibration. As already noted, the F-1N does not have the MLU option, and that might be the reason...the shutter is very well-damped and vibration-free. Nevertheless, I believe they shoud have provided this feature as well.

 

If the F-1N had both these features--AE exposure lock and MLU--I believe it would be just about the perfect manual focus 35mm SLR. As it is, it's the finest manual exposure, manual focus, spot-metering camera I've ever used.

[summitar]

I have both the FTb and the old F-1. The only important difference I can discern is that the F-1 has a removabnle prism and focussing screens (features I have not exploited) Both are rugged, excellent cameras and will produce identical results, since they both use FD lenses. I think you should consider two other options: (1) keep the FTb and invest in different FD lenses, or (2) keep the FTb and invest in a Canon T90, which uses the same FD lenses, but is a whole different experience in exposure, TTL flash, and film advance. It is hard not to love the T90.

[gale]

I sure can't add anything to all above replys. I have an F-1N w/ AE Finder. I don't have a drive on it and see no reason to add one. It is my main camera even today for all scenery shots as above mentioned, it has Spot Metering which is wonderfull in taking readings on all points of a potential photograph. I shoot nothing but Prime lenses on it either FD or FL Canon Glass. The photos are really good, or as good as can be expected for landscape shots with a 35mm, which even my today's high end digital age, is still really good.

 

However, I seldom use the camera for general shooting or if I am asked to shoot indoors (wedding or other gathering), I prefer A-1's or even my old AE-1 Program w/ black body as these cameras have LED readout of my exposure or I can go Program for hurry shots. I have a MA drive on my Black AE-1 PRogram and a 533 Flash Gun on the side. It is only 4 fps top speed but a wonderful unit to shoot and turns heads at weddings when most shooters are running around with 20D's or D200's around their necks. The Black AE-1 and side flash gun seems like a novelty.

 

True, I am hangin onto the 70's and 80's camera gear like a bad virus but I just love them.

 

Final note to my long reply. I have two FTB's, one Black and one Chrome. I would never trade either camera for an F-1 (any F-1). There is just something really classy about an FTB. My Chrome FTB is crisp and shiny as they day it came from the box. So I have FTB's and an F-1......and a few AE-1's and PRograms and A-1's and an AT-1 and so on and so on.

 

Have fun with you F-1 but don't sell the FTB to get there.

 

Dave

[roger_kallet]

I've enjoyed following this tread about the F-1s in all its varieties I still have the F-1 I

bought new around 1979 or 1980. I thought I would post a picture taken in the early

1980s of a Shuttle Roll-out to the Pad, at the Kennedy Space Center-- I believe STS-2.

 

At the time, I had just two FD lenses, a 50mm/1.4 and a 135mm/3.5, but I don't

remember which one was used. The camera was mounted on a tripod and for exposure I

used a cable release and slowly counted to seven or eight. I scanned the slide and cleaned

it up, etc. in PS.

[roger_kallet]

My attachment...it was a Jpeg version, with the wide side, 650 pixels. I don't understand.

 

Here's another attempt, but 600 pixels for the wide side.

[Andy Collins]

I got an F1N from KEH in ex+ condition a couple of years ago for $429. It has turned out to be one of my favorite cameras out of numerous Canon manual and EOS film and digital bodies, one I enjoy using immensely. It feels very solid and indestructible like my 1V, and much more so than my beloved 20D. I also acquired the AE winder with the AA-pack which is quite nice as well. This camera is a joy to use and will probably remain in my camera bag for a long time to come. I do hope to acquire the original F1 at some point, mainly for its significance in Canon SLR history. Whatever you choose, enjoy!

 

Andy

[serge_gagnon]

(Completely off-topic but) I'm happy with my newly acquired F-1n that

I bought 3 weeks ago.

 

Here is a sample I got with this great camera and a FD 24mm<div></div>

[dr._karl_hoppe]

Whatever you do, hang on to your F-1 gear! I sold off all my equipment in the late 1980s, only to regret it. I then duplicated my entire old kit from KEH in the late 90s. I will not make the same mistake again. These cameras and lenses are veritable tanks, built to outlive their owners.

[cadillacmike]

Well Jim, did you ever get your F-1?

Here'a a couple of things I've come across in 25 years of being a Canon junkie:

1. Canon made Laser Matte screens for the F-1; they say "Canon Focusing Screen L-x" on their side with x being the screen type (A through I) and the A-I in a small circle instead of a square on the old ground glass screens. Of course the new F-1 has "Bright Laser matte" screens (ooooh).

2. Old F-1s can develop flash synch problems and the external Flash Couplers D and L (mainly D which has no lock) have a nasty habit of slipping just a little bit so your flash wont fire! Flash Coupler F is a little better but it's insanely expensive on ebay. The new F-1 is much more versatile with A, T and G series flashes.

3. If you are out in the sticks and the battery goes dead, the old F-1 has more usable shutter speeds (1 sec to 1/2000 vs. new F-1 with 1/90 and higher only) and you don't have to take the battery out of the camera either.

4. the new F-1 has a lit metering window. The old F-1 has an esternal lamp (Finder Illuminator F) that sits where the flash coupler sits but then you can mount a flash coupler (Coupler L has a lamp too) New F-1 is easier to use in this regard.

5. The new F-1's motor drive maxes out at 5 FPS and rewinds the film for you while the old ones is only 3.5 FPS and you have to rewind yourself.

6. The new F-1 has the meter switch in the shutter button while the old one is on the dial in the back. Leave it on for a week and you'll killt the battery which brings me to the final point.

7. No more 1.35V mercuric oxide batteries for the old F-1. Criscam makes a $39 adapter hat uses Eveready 386 Silver batteries but these don't last as long (ther are tiny and S-76 are too big), while Wein (or similar) 1.35V zinc-air cells last 2 months if you are lucky. The new F-1 uses the 6V lithium or silver batteries still widely available.

There! let us know what you end up doing. On long trips, I take 1 of each (or and old F-1 and an A-1) I have more old F-1s than new F-1s but am selling some of the old ones and one new F-1 Los Angeles.