nicola inglis Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I shot portraits for a couple last week, individuals and together. The individuals were hadshots for their respective websites (businesses). They are not young but are youthful and very positive, upbeat etc so I thought it would be quite straightforward. On the day we did the shoot and then uploaded so they could have a quick look. She didn't seem particularly happy with any of the ones of her so we went back and shot some more. She chose one (although I sensed she wasn't super happy) and I worked on it a bit for her and she went away with it on CD (so she could get it on her site as soon as). The deal was I would work the rest of the images and send the completed files within the week. I'd just finished working and burning the remaining files when I get an email saying she's been talking to other people who think we didn't quite capture her true smile. I personally think she didn't choose the best picture but I'm not sure what she is after. So I chose a smile-ier capture and worked that, gave it good contrast, good catchlight, flattering shadows etc. and she's still not really thinking it is her true look. Where do I go from here? She is so nice and I just don't know what I would do differently if she were to come back. She seemed very relaxed in the studio, her husband commented on my photography skills (in a positive way!) and I felt we had a really good rapport. I think perhaps she thinks she looks different from how she actually does? What would you do??? Please advise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_madio Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 "gave it good contrast, good catchlight, flattering shadows etc. and she's still not really thinking it is her true look." ... maybe that's the problem. These elements should be in the initial capture and not added afterwards. Perhaps the manipulation looks unnatural? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicola inglis Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 The inital capture is fine but a little flat, I thought since it was going on the web it needed a bit more 'sparkle' than usual. But perhaps you're right. What would you do about it though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelhills Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Nicola, I would be totally honest with your client and (if possible) really sit down with her face-to-face and ask her what specifically she does not like about her images. Get the answer, then do a quick re-shoot if appropriate, during the session, show her the images as you take them (you take digital?) and ask her to look at the images and if she does not like what she sees on the back of the camera, then ask her to address them in the next series of shots. Show them to her again and repeat the process. Involve her in the creation of her own images and you will empower her. The reshoot should take no more then 45 minutes tops and you will walk away from the shoot with an image that she likes. Then, take that image and process it in the dDarkroom, email her the 'draft', get her opinion and then finalise the process. You should be then able to deliver a product that she is really happy with.<br><br> What do you think? M :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapata_espinoza Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 She may prefer her picture mirrored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicola inglis Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 Unfortunately I can't mirror the images as she specifically asked to have them shot with her facing that way (for the sake of the website layout), otherwise that would be an excellent idea. Michael, I think that's what I'll have to do although I'm still not sure that she'll be happy at the end of it (after all we did kind of go through that process the first time). And the big question...how do I charge for the re-shoot? Or do I have to do it for nothing? They have already paid for one hour (they were here for nearly 1.5 but I was leaving a little salt on the bread). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_starr3 Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Like some other posters said, I would re-shoot and get her more involved in creating what she wants. Personally, I would not charge for the re-shoot. If this is a client you value, do whatever it takes to make her happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelhills Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Totally your call, Nicola. <br><br> Personally, I have not had to do any re-shoots so I really cannot comment based on my experiences. However... <br><br> You know the circumstances, your comfort level and your own ethical 'values'. Do whatever you feel to be correct. If you charge extra and the client complains, well, there are times when a photographer has to stand up for his/her own sense of integrity and ethics. For a one-off situations like this, losing the client is a risk I would personally take. All too often, we bend over backwards (and then some) to make clients 'happy' and we compromise our ethics and standards... <br><br> If this kind of situation regularly happens with your commissions, then I gently suggest you take a good look at your technique, people's skills, workflow, client service levels etc and try to discover where exactly in the chain your 'service' is hitting the 'I not happy with my image' stumbling block. <br><br> Sorry for the 'lecture', but I just had to say it. Just my thoughts... <br><br> Good luck... M :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicola inglis Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 Nicely put, Michael :-) I guess that is the crux of the issue though isn't it? She left here smiling and happy, she appeared to enjoy the experience. If she were commenting on the lighting or the backdrop or something else concrete, or even my people skills etc I guess I could see what to fix. A comment like "it isn't my normal look" or "my eyes aren't smiling" leaves me completely in the dark as to what to improve/change. As far as I could tell, her smiles were genuine, we were bonding :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_flanagan1 Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 As some of the other posters alluded to, most people don't really know what they look like. They look in the mirror and see what want to see based on an idealized self view...either a negative view of themselves (i'm so ugly) or an overly positive view of themselves. From my experience, folks who are not used to getting their pix taken a lot are a bigger problem in this regard. So, I found it is often good to sit down with them before the shoot and discuss what they feel are their strong points, things to avoid, which is their best side, etc. The answers they give you may make no sense to you at all, but that is how the client views themself so that should be your point of departure. My favorite example comes from a wedding I shot many years ago. After I sent the proofs over to the client, the bride called me back and was livid. She kept hollering at me wanting to know put me up to the practical joke. I was like what the hell are you talking about. She said, "You made me look fat you SOB - you did something to the pictures to make me look fat!" The bride was barely 5' tall and weighed probably 300lbs. The groom was about 5-5, weighed probably half as much again. Everyone in the wedding party weighed at least 250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirk d. Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 This is a very common problem for photographers, Scientists have concluded that smiles are controlled by two sets of muscles the zygomatic major muscles which run down the side of the face and connect to the corners of the face and conect to the mouth and the orbiticularis oculi which pull the eyes back. the zygomatic majors pull the mouth back to expose the teeth and enlarge the cheeks while the orbicularis oculi make the eyes narrow and cause cross feet or smiling in the eyes. The zygomatic majors are consciously controlled and thus are used to produce "fake" smiles. If your trying for a real smile use tactics which will produce a real smile not just by saying smile. My policy is always to please the client reshoots are an easy way to build your reputation the opther option could tarnish it. Hope this helps, best wishes! A. Dirk Dabel Lightdances Photography Boise Id. USA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted December 19, 2006 Share Posted December 19, 2006 If it is a woman, most of the time, they are reacting to the reality of the photograph. Basically, you are forcing them to see themselves as others actually do. In their minds, they are young and slimmer. And they won't tell you that they think you made them look older, fatter etc. The bit about the natural smile is usually a cover-up for this fact. Re-shoot it and do your best glamour style butterfly lighting and use your PS skills--soft focus, wrinkle erasing, even the liquify tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessica_smith9 Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 This is why I never, ever show unprocessed images. People sometimes think that we get the pretty images straight out of the camera with no adjustments. She had a let down in expectations and thought you couldn't recover. I personally think the damages are done, and her opinion of you is shattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jessica_smith9 Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 The verbage I used sounded really harsh, but I promise I did not intend for it to sound that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seawolff Posted January 9, 2007 Share Posted January 9, 2007 You have to reshoot but Before your next shoot, ask her to practice the look she wants in the mirror until she can do it with ease. Boil some water and pour it over a pleasant and aromatic tea such as jasmine. Ask her to inhale and exhale the fumes deeply, relaxing her face on the exhale, and then put on her look. Try to keep the mirror in her view., and catch her through the transition from the relaxed to the look, and dropping the look again. My last portrait session was for a middle aged woman's E harmony image. It was late afternoon to evening, down by the marina and the park. Some of the poses were just awful (I did not like them) and she wasn't convinced for the others. She grimaced when she smiled (she did not like her teeth, which were fine). WE talked and laughed and still the great smiles were not coming. I suggested the tea thing, she grimaced then gave the perfect smile. That was the shot - she was smiling because she hates tea. Go figure! Her best friend, who works for Nikon, can't believe I got those looks out of her, we had 3 great shots from the session. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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