Manual Focus and Medium Format

[brenden_butler]

This holiday season I am looking at some old classic manual focus 6x6 and 6x7

cameras. I had heard great things about the Mamiya RZ67 Pro II, specifically

that it had interchangeable backs between 6x7 and 6x6 which are the two formats

I am interested in. Getting a two in one deal sounded great, but I quickly

discovered that this was actually an automatic camera and also a lot to lug

around. I then switched my interest to the RB67 which evidentally weighs more. I

also heard the RB lens line has coating problems, and I am unsure if I can get a

6x6 back or do multiple exposure w/ the RB body. My other considerations are

pre-electronically operated Rollei's and the Hassleblad 500 series of which I

don't think I can get a 6x7 back for either of them, but I guess I am more

interested in 6x6 anyways and if I really need to I could always crop. Honestly

I dont know what my best choice is here. I need to do more research, and asking

questions is part of my research, so thanks in advance for your help! I

primarily shoot industrial, landscape, people, and street. 90% of the time I am

using a tripod, however I do go hiking with my gear, so weight is a moderate

factor. Once I have decided on the camera, then I will also need a wide and

normal lens for general use, and a tele lens for people. I am coming from a

Nikon FE2 w/ 35mm f2, 50mm f1.4, and 105mm f2.5 so a similiar set up that I

could shoot 120 on would be ideal. Let me know what you think! Thanks again!

[stuart_richardson]

You might want to look into Bronica. They offer cameras in 6x6 and 6x7. I some of the lenses

were made by Nikon too. Bronicas tend to be fairly inexpensive compared to other MF

cameras, so if you want to build a larger kit they may be a good choice.

[john_papandreou]

I went through Exactly this last year, I decided Due to the Price tumble of Medum format cameras a 6x7 Was within my reach, So I bought a RB Pro S, I found It to be too Heavy to Lug around and beacause I have Small Hands It was clumbersome to use. I then came across a Bronica GS-1 Body and Finder at one of the camera shops For the crazy price of $100 Because it was missing the Winder. I did the deal and Sold off the RB for more than I paid for it. I now have a Nice Bronica outfit for less than $1000, It is nice to use does everything I need, and lately Everything is priced right on the net I managed to get a 65mm Wide for $100 !!! because of a 1mm Mark on the lense near the edge. The results are Very sharp with no Fall off very pleased with this camera, and you can get 6x4.5 6x6 and 6x7 backs.

 

This is a very under rated Camera and worth a look

[jrjacobs]

Your other obvious choice in 6x7 would be the Pentax 67.

 

For 6x6 I think you are on the right track with a Rolleiflex or a Hassie 500CM.

[brenden_butler]

The comment about the Bronica GS-1 sounds like somethng definately worth looking into, thanks! How is the metering system and does it have aperture priority? Also, does it have an adequately bright finder? I am a pretty small guy for my age so this may work out well instead of carrying a clunky RB or the likes. Oh, and lenses for that system, how is the saturation and microcontrast, and can you really get Nikkor brand lenses for this system? Thanks again!

[brenden_butler]

In response to JR Jacobs, I had considered getting a Pentax 6x7 and buying a seperate 6x6 body, probably a Rollei SL66, but I think that I would regret having all the extra equipment to deal with and also as far as I know the Pentax 6x7's use focal plane shutters so I am concearned about sync speed for fill flash, as well as vibration.

[michael_madio]

For 6x6, consider a Mamiya TLR with 55mm, 80mm, and 180mm lenses.

[brenden_butler]

I really want an SLR, I have never been too crazy about TLR's. Thank you though!

[bueh]

Get the RZ67 and live with it. Yes it's heavy, but that's the price you pay for a 6x7 SLR. What's automatic about it? There is a AE prism, but you don't have to use it (I use the WLF myself), so usually the camera is fully manual (and, oh boy, it uses a tiny little battery to control the electronic Seiko leaf shutters). If that's a dealbreaker for you, I cannot help you.

 

The RB67 are professional cameras with professional lenses. Even the old non-C are very, very good. You can do multiple exposures even (and especially) with the old Pro. The Pro-S and later models have a double-exposure lock (which can be disengaged).

 

Hasselblads are 6x6 cameras. Period. If you want square, don't get a 6x7 format camera, because of size, weight and bulk issues. Make up your mind first, then choose the camera.

 

A nice outfit is the RZ67 with the 65mm f/4, 110mm f/2.8 and 150mm f/3.5 lenses. But I wouldn't carry all lenses for hiking. Better suited for field work is the Mamiya 7 rangefinder which is pretty expensive, but the lenses are definitively excellent.

[brenden_butler]

How does the Mamiya RZ and RB series compare to the Bronica mentioned earlier. Is it really worth the weight and price difference?

[peter_evans4]

You might also consider a Koni-Omega or Mamiya Universal Press.

[brenden_butler]

That Koni Omega is a GIANT rangefinder, lol. I did a lot more research on the Broni, and that is looking really good to me! Investing in the RZ/RB is probably going to be too heavy and too pricy. Rollei and Hass are going to limit my format since I won't be able to shoot 6x7 at all unless I buy another camera and I don't want to do that, plus they will probably leave me in a much deeper financial hole with half the amount of gear to show for it. So I am definately leaning toward the GS-1 for its versatility, simplicity, and compact design unless anyone has anything bad to say about it, or good to say about another camera. Thanks again!

[bueh]

GS-1 drawbacks: No rotating back (so portrait format is impossible with a WLF); no fast f/2.8 lens; not nearly as common as the Mamiya gear (which is less expensive); pretty hard to get serviced and spare parts; poor minimum focus distance (unlike the bellows focusing R*67's).

[brenden_butler]

damn, minimum focusing distance is a pretty important factor for me. The GS-1 doesnt use bellows focusing, thats a major drawback in my opinion.

[brenden_butler]

Well, I do not think I would ever shoot without a tripod when using a medium format camera. If I shoot without a tripod, I might as well be using 35mm anyways because I won't want to be lugging around a clunky box while shooting candids on the streets or snapshots at a social gathering and its unlikely I will need the quality to enlarge them so much either. So, I suppose the weight really only effects me during transportation, not while shooting. If Mamiya gear really is higher quality, more readily available, and more afordable, then I think that the extra features on the Mamiya RZ/RB 6x7; including min focusing distance, rotating back, and brighter finders due to lower f/stops outweighs the portability of the Bronica GS-1. I shoot a lot of low light stuff, so a dim finder is bad news. Thanks again!

[robert_fisher4]

The RZ is a beast. So is the RB. I have an RZ (not II). You'll likely have a difficult time finding a 6x6 back for it. Mamiya didn't make this back for very long as it wasn't overly popular but there are a few floating around. The RB lenses are marginally below the RZ glass in terms of quality generally but the RB lenses are still very good and some RB lenses are better than the RZ equivalents. Nice thing about the RZ is that it can take RB lenses, the reverse is not true. The rotating back on the RZ is also a nice feature. Multiple exposures with both the RZ and RB should be no problem. I know it isn't with the RZ and believe you can cock the shutter of the RB without advancing the film (although am not 100% positive). There's really nothing electronic about the RZ II. It's still a manual focus, manual shutter cocking camera. You can get an auto film winder but that's about it. If you get an AE Prism finder you'll have some auto exposure functionality but not if you use the WLF.

 

I love the RZ and have taken it in my backpack. Fully loaded my camera pack weighs in at about 65 lbs (RZ body, 2 backs, 2 lenses, 2 35mm bodies, 3 lenses, 2 speedlights, tripod and various filters, adapters, cords, etc). Not sure I'd want to take it on a 10 or 15 mile hike on difficult terrain but for moderate hikes it's doable. I've trudged through some pretty heavy snow with it as well.

[brenden_butler]

Thank you :) good to know, I thought the RZ had autofocus capability and all that jazz, so I figured why pay extra for an autofocus body if I would never ever use that feature. Well, now, with everyones help I have completely narrowed it down to the RZ Pro II with 6x7 and 6x6 backs or a Rollei SL66 and just crop to 645 if need be. I would imagine the SL66 is a lot lighter than the RZ? I am going to speak to a few people who own these two cameras and see what they think. I guess the question is really, do I absolutely need the option to shoot 6x7? I think I do, but I am really not sure. Thanks again!

[john_papandreou]

Yes I have found the lack of close Focus with my GS-1 to a bit of a problem My next purchase is going to be a Spacer or a 110mm Macro lense, The Lense Speed hasn't been a issue for me as I live in Sunny Australia and there is lots of light, With Studio work Having a Leaf Shutter is very handy, I Don't miss having a revolving back I just hold the camera on its side, It is light Enough. Reliability hasn't been a issue I have put aroung 30-60 rolls of film through it this 12 months hasn't missed a beat. The metered Prism is avery nice thing It displays every thing clearly and has a Exposure lock, I use this alot when in Auto Mode.

[robert_clark]

The SL66 is about as big and heavy as the RZ. Both SL66 camera and the rare rollei lenses are collectible, and so are very expensive and hard to find. Build quality is of course at a higher level than the RZ. With the SL 66, though, you even get small movements.

[bueh]

Brenden, I don't know, but the SL66 is probably a good deal lighter than the RZ. Then again, these aren't the most current cameras and even the best picture-takers develop problems after some time. The Mamiya cameras are reliable cameras that are still are being serviced if the need arises.

<p>

Talk to your friends, but really, you should take a RZ in your hand and see if it fits your shooting style. It's heavy, and if you don't want 6x7, get a smaller camera. On the other hand, with the ideal 6x7 format you can enlarge as big as you want and the pictures will just look gorgeous. To quote A. Conti from <b><a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00FrXw">this thread</a></b>: "<i>The RZ is one hell of a tool. Not a sexy tool, but a very effective one.</i>"

[bueh]

Ah, and the Rollei SL66 is a focal-plane shutter camera. There are two (!) leaf-shutter lenses available, but I guess these are pretty rare and expensive nowadays (and a pain to work with). The limited movements of the Rollei is of course a pretty neat feature, but I have also the Shift-Tilt adapter for the RZ. An the <b><a href="http://www.mediajoy.com/en/cla_came/sl66/index.html" target"_NEW">SL66</a></b> is not really lighter than the <b><a href="http://www.mamiya.com/ViewInfo.asp?id=1&id2=2022&id3=2024" target"_NEW">RZ</a></b>.

[brenden_butler]

Thank you to everyone, all of you have been such a big help and I really appreciate it :)

[roland_vink]

One of the options you are considering is 6x6 and cropping to 645 if needed. If you are going to do that, why not consider 645 in the first place? The cameras and lenses are considerably smaller and more portable than 67, much more suitable for hiking. A 645 camera with 55/2.8, 75/2.8 and 150/3.5 lenses gives you an eqivalent set to your Nikon kit.

 

The Pentax 645 in particular is a good match for your Nikons since the aperture and focus rings turn the same way and the lenses have similar rendition. They are excellent and very good value. The camera has a very smooth reflex mirror so is quite usuable handheld. It's one of the best cameras for tripod work since it has an extra mount on the side for vertical framing. It also allows you to do multiple exposures. Very accurate light meter, aperture priority, built-in film advance, excellent handling (especially the 645N and 645NII). Worth a closer look?

[William Michael]

RE 6 x 7

 

 

I used [manual] Pentax 6x7 for years. They were trustworthy and robust, and not too heavy to lug two bodies all day. I expect you could find good value and good quality used.

 

If you don't want bells and whistles have a good look at Pentax 67.

 

In 645 format I used Mamiya 1000 series, they were good work horses, and much used by location wedding photographers. I would not expect many professionally used 645 [either Mamiya or Pentax] to be in great condition.

 

If you are looking at 645 get one that has been the pride and joy of an enthusiast.

 

I used a few Blads but never really liked the 6x6 format. They are however built to last.

 

 

Regards WW