20D - 30D or jump to the 5D

[stlthdvr]

Need the help of my friends at Photo.net again.

 

Background.

 

I'm a advanced amateur who has been fasciated with photography as a hobby for

years. I upgraded to a 20D when it first came out, and I'm shooting a family

wedding in two weeks.

 

My current equipment consist of a ESO20D and an EOS3 for film. I have a 580Ex

550EX and a St-E2 Transmitter, along with a Stroboframe Pro-T, and the

following lenses: Canon EF 100MM 2.0 Lens Canon EF IS 17-85mm Sigma APO 70-200

2.8 Canon Prof Series 35-350 3.5-5.6

 

While shooting a couple of weeks ago, the tripod mount on the bottom of my 20d

Snapped. I tried to order the replacement from Canon, but they sent me the

wrong part. Now I'm concerned I won't have it repaired in the short time

left. after trying to repair the camera on my own, not sure I want to do that

either.

 

So....since I always bring a second camera, normally my EOS3, I've decided now

might be a good time to get a second Digital SLR.

 

My first thought was to buy another 20D, since I really love it, and I'm used

to it. But I could also get a little more with the 30D, and use my 20D as

the second camera. While looking, I noticed the price continiing to drop on

the 5d, the rebates and thought, why not go to what I really want?

 

I know the answer....if you can afford it, make the move! However, I do have

a life, and the expense starts to build.

 

I can buy another nice peice of glass for the difference in price. So I'd like

to poll the group for advice. Is Canon coming out with anything to replace

the 5d, and I should wait.

 

I can get by with the flashed on camera, but would rather not. Is anyone

aware of a third party adapter that might allow me get around the the broken

tripod mount on the bottom of the camera.

 

Sorry for the long description, I appreciate everyones help!

 

Thanks

 

Richard

[m_barbu1]

My take (though, albeit, not based on actual knowledge) is that when the prices start dropping on any equipment, it's because the manufacturer is trying to flush the sales channels to get rid of stock.

 

As long as you fully understand the differences you will encounter with the full frame 5D (as opposed to the 1.6x FoV crop 20D and 30D), the 5D has got to be one of the best "wedding" digital SLRs out there, primarily due to it's phenomenal low light performance. It can have such performance, because of the low pixel density of it's sensor, coupled with the larger sensor size.

 

Since it's a 12 Megapixel camera, you may have the impression that you can still crop the images from it as you would the 20D or 30D, but those images will be decidedly lower in resolution, because of the pixel density issue I mentioned above. In order for the 5D to have the same pixel density as the 20D, it would need to have a 21 Megapixel sensor.

 

One last thing... check to make sure you can use flash when photographing the wedding. If not, go for faster lenses. f/2.8 is about as slow as you'll want to go, without flash.

[calebcondit]

Get a decent lens. If you use the lenses you currently have on a 5d you'll see all their deficiencies. The quality will be higher on your 20d and you'll be better prepared when you can get a ff body. I think it's more likely that the 1D series bodies will be replaced first with something to compete with the sensor of the 5d.

 

Many wedding photographers aren't buying 1dmk11n's as much since the 5d came out. So maybe hold out on upgrading the body and get the good lens first. Canon's guaranteed to release something new in Feb. Whether it's a new DSLR or an announcement that the 50 1.2L is delayed longer or that we're getting new 1d Bodies is yet to be determined.

[jon_austin]

First you have to decide if you are willing to get by with on-camera flash for the upcoming wedding. If so, then you really don't *need* to buy anything now. However, if you're doing weddings for pay, I think you'd improve the quality of your images substantially if you'd replace that 17-85 with a 24-70.

 

If you do decide you need on-camera flash (and therefore need to buy another body ... assuming you can't rent or borrow one), I'd recommend you get the 30D over the 20D. Same sensor, and enough incremental improvements to justify the price delta, IMHO.

 

If you decide to buy a new body, and can afford the 5D without undue financial burden, don't let the possibility of an impending replacement influence your buying decision. Nothing new's going to be released -- much less announced -- in the next two weeks.

[gator1999]

This is the 1st time hearing about the sensor density difference between 5D and 30D. I guess, logically, should be right. 12MP in 24x36 area compares to 8.2MP on 17x30 (13888p/mm2 vs 16078p/mm2) ,which shows that 30D has more sensors. I think the reason I would go for 5D is that I have tons of regular EF lenses so I can use them directly without the 1.6x cropping factor on 30D. So, considering your lens collection right now, just go for 5D. I saw a combo on Ebay, 5D with the 24-105L IS, for $3200 (after rebate)+shipping. It's not that bad, even it can almost buy me an arm or leg ^0^.

 

P.S.: The only digital I have now is Sony F828, 8MP with 28-200(35 eqiv) f2.8(of, yes, 2.8) Zeiss Sonnar. Very easy to use, good image quality, and only fraction of the price of 30D or 5D. Only thing is....minimum aperture is only f8, while I am a memeber of f/16.

[patrick tom]

Personally if you're not doing it professionally you won't need a 5d...I'd experiment more with off camera flash...perhaps see what you can do with two flashes with an off camera cord(probably want to try the experiments asap)...before any wedding shots...I'd look at others wedding photography...it's not a good time to try this all right before the wedding since the wedding is only two weeks away but do it the way you'd normally do it as well as try new things perhaps not in the most crucial of shots...if you do decide to get a new body...make sure you use the body you are most familiar with to get those crucial shots...getting a wedding shot can be especially nerve racking ...I said if you're not doing it professionally you won't need a 5d...unless you want to do blow ups or lots of cropping...then a 5d is pretty much needed even for an amateur...the expenses do add up...computers,printers,lights,back drops, lenses...thank god memory prices is dropping...this certainly can add up and you still haven't got the price of upgrading bodies...good luck

[mark u]

The 30d was a minimal makeover of the 20D because Canon didn't have anything else up its sleeve at the time and yet it needed to have something new knowing that there were likely to be some strong competitive offerings in that segment of the market - and indeed, there now are. As such, I think it is much more likely to be replaced well ahead of the 5D, which has no direct competitors.

 

If you don't want to spring for a 5D now, you could always add say an Elan 7(E if you use ECF on your EOS 3) for peanuts as a second film body to cover the wedding - with the benefit that it is among the quietest bodies Canon ever made, and so will do well for shots during the ceremony, and allows you to have 2 different emulsions available at the same time. Having a choice of focal lengths to hand on a second body is distinctly useful at weddings - you don't want to be weilding the 35-350 either. Of course, you'd need some wider coverage either way, so you may want to look at the Canon 24-70 f/2.8, Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 or Sigma 24-70 f/2.8 to provide that.

 

If you want to consider replacing the 20D, I'd wait until the spring before making a decision, and meantime have your current one repaired.

[stlthdvr]

I really appreciate all the feedback. I'm not a professional, and though I often get tipped, this is a hobby first and foremost.

 

Someday, I'd like to make it more, but for now it is all about pride in my own work and making someones wedding day special with good pictures for memories.

 

I'm hoping my Sigma 2.8 70-200 and the 2.0 100 mm will get me by with the low light shots, and I've used the 550ex on camera in the past, so I can do that for this if needed. The EFS 17-85 works great with the flash, but I'm really would lile to pick up a better wide angle.

 

I'll continue to reasearch and read opinions. I think I've ruled out the 20D for now, and the 30D doesnt' seem like much of an upgrade. Can you tell I'm trying to talk myself into the 5D? LOL

Takes better advantage of my good lenses, and I can keep the EFS on the 20D.

 

Decisions, Decisions, and I just got a nice commision check from my real job!

 

Have a great weekend everyone!

 

Richard

[picturesque]

You can rent a 20D body and proceed as you would have. If you want to let yourself be talked into a 5D, then I don't blame you, but there are other options. I personally would decide to either use the flash on the hotshoe and deal with vertical shooting by using a Lightsphere or Demb Diffuser (both of which make side shadows less apparent) and avoiding situations where side shadows become annoying, or use the EOS 3, or rent a 20D if the tripod mount couldn't be repaired in time. I like to purchase upgrades on my own terms, when I am ready and fully decided than in a rush. What, exactly, is wrong with the tripod mount? I can't imagine how it "snapped off".

[stlthdvr]

Nadine,

 

Can I use you as a personal consultant?! I like the way you think! I really don't feel like the 5D is a bad investment, but it is a bit of a luxury for me.

 

To answer your question, the female thread on the 20D broke, literally split in half wthen I was threading it on to the Tripod for a family potrait. 1/2 stayed on the quich release thread of the Tripod. I was shocked....as I had not applied much pressure. When looking closey it alomst looks plastic, in comparison to my Elan II and EOS 3. The replacement part (thought the wrong one) looks to be of much heavier quality. I asked the Canon rep if there had been a recall or upgrade when I ordered the part, but he said it was the saem as the original.

 

If I might add one final question. If I do move the to the 5D, I'd like to add a quality wide to mid zoom. I'd prefer a quicker lens like the 24-70 2.8, but the 24-105 with IS seems like a better range/value. More versatile....I guess.

[mendel_leisk]

Richard, does your tripod have a quick-release bracket: a small piece that threads securely into the camera, and then the whole assembly, camera and bracket, attaches to tripod? Or does the whole tripod attach, in one step? If the latter, there can be a terrific amount of levering until the tripod is securely seated.

[gaetano catelli]

having used 35mm, 2-1/4 x 2-1/4, 2-1/4 x 2-3/4, 4 x 5, and 8 x 10 in film, and 1/2.7, 1/1.8, 1.6 crop (ie, Canon 20D), and FF (ie, 5D) in digital, it seems that the old advice about getting the most bang for the buck from good glass still holds up.

 

that said, i still love my 5D!

[picturesque]

Yikes...I better be careful with that part of my 20D. Doesn't sound like you can jury rig a safe alternative. I'd be worrying about the camera falling off the bracket all day. You don't need that on your first serious wedding shoot.

 

As for the lens. Some people swear by the 24-70mm f2.8. Other people don't like the size and weight, and the hood has had issues--falling off and such. Some say f2.8 isn't as wide as they need for low light. The 24-105mm f4 is light and covers a nice range. Some people say the IS makes up for the smaller widest f stop, but others say the viewing and autofocus is diminished in the viewfinder because of this. I personally would get the 24-105mm if I were getting a zoom, because I would use it when a zoom is convenient (24-70mm isn't a wide enough range, for an all around zoom at a wedding, IMHO) and when there is enough light, or with flash. If in low light and/or I wanted the wide apertures for shallow DOF, I would fall back on my primes. But that's me--you should analyze how you will be using a zoom to find the one that fits you best. Better yet, rent both before you decide.

[mendel_leisk]

Also, re 24-70 vs 24-105, I have both, with a 5D, and I *still* haven't made up my mind. Some observation and opinion, and this is just with my copies:

 

1. The 24-70 is the superior lens in terms of sharpness, light fall-off and distortion.

 

2. The 24-105 extra reach is not that much. It's noticeable, and welcome, but I could live without it.

 

3. The 24-70, while potentially capable of more quality, is often tripped up by the lack of IS.

 

4. Considering the two lens with hoods mounted, the 24-70 is much more of a handful, bulkier and more noticeable (if you're trying to do candid). OTOH, the 24-70 hood design is elequence: this lens retracts at the telephoto end, and coupling this with hood mounted behind the moving portion makes for near perfect shading at all focal lengths.

 

This topic is hammered out daily here, likely because it such a tough call.

[mendel_leisk]

Plus, the 24-70 can get much closer at the macro end.

[John Crowe]

It is not worth upgrading to the 30D, and I think the replacement for the 5D is coming within 8 months and at a substantially lower price, so I'd hold off there too.

 

 

For the short term you could get an XTi really cheaply and it likely has better resolution than either the 20D or 30D! You could always resell it when you go full frame and you would not lose much money. Good luck.

[larry schaefer - chicago,]

Its all a shell game.

[JDMvW]

I think that Canon would not have released the 30D if they had known about Nikon's D80. My guess is that they will have a 10+ sensor "D40" soon to match the Rebel XTi. Or I suppose they may be more ready with a 5D replacement, but it will probably still cost a lot more than a new APS-sensor camera. Even though I just bought my daughter a 20D (because as a photo major I thought the more rugged body and stronger shutter would be nice and I couldn't afford a new 30D for her), you are in a different situation. You're going to keep the 20D so maybe you should consider the Rebel XTi as a second body. You can find it new for about the same price on eBay as a "minty" (Jeez, I hate that word) 20D.

[jim_larson1]

Well. . .OF COURSE its a shell game :)

 

Richard; Are you aware that the 17-85/EF-S will not mount on a 5D?

 

If you buy a 5D you will HAVE to replace this lens. In terms of a lens replacement, the 24-105/4L-IS is more versatile than the 24-70/2.8L, and is in all ways superior to the 17-85/IS.

 

As for value. . .huh. Not sure ANY lens is worth $1200 :) (but I have spent this in the past. . .). Both lenses are hideously overpriced.

 

As for bodies. . .from your post it sounds like because you can't take low light tripod shots. .. you will have to resort to flash (which YOU don't prefer) . . .(although it sounds like you have a full blown multiflash rig).

 

Personally. . .I would wait. The 30D and 5D are basically identical except for the sensor. The 20D and 30D are laughably similar. Not sure I wouldn't recommend a Rebel XTi over both the 30D and 5D. (the 5D is too expensive. . and the 30D was obsolete before it was released).

 

I like Nadines idea of renting a 20D.