Professional grade lighting - You get what you pay for?

[josh_s3]

I feel like my eyes are about to pop out from reading forums about studio lights, and still can't find the

bottom line answer I'm looking for. Please help.

 

I want to begin building a professional grade studio lighting package with location capabilities. Everyone

keeps telling me about how amazing Alien Bees are, and at first I was pumped because I could buy a whole

studio worth of lights for the price of one Profoto head. But its just not making sense to me. My mother

always told me that you get what you pay for... and for the most part I've found her to be right. This has

caused me to think twice about Alien Bees. If Alien Bees or White Lighting can produce just as good of

results as the high end "pro" companies, why doesn't EVERYONE use them!? It can't just be materialism.

Can pros, shooting medium format portraiture for a magazine really get away with using Alien Bees?

 

 

I guess my bottom line question is this, I am interested building a portfolio that could one day possibly

get me representation from a photo agency for portrait, editorial, fashion, etc. work. I do not want to

spend any more than I need to to make this happen, but I want to spend what is necessary in order to get

real professional quality lighting on my subject. Can Alien Bees do that? If not, what should I be looking

at?

 

p.s. To all the Alien Bees lovers out there I do not to down the lights at all, I just want to make sure I get

the right thing for MY needs.

 

Thanks

[calebcondit]

I'VE heard that occasionally Alien Bees can be unreliable as far as color temp...and that really the build quality isn't amazing...Pick up a speedotron pack sometime and you'll see equipment that's built to last.

 

They make great gear, I've used them extensively and they're not that expensive. you could get an 8 series power pack that's light enough to take on location but strong enough to give decent power...plus you could always get 2 of them for just over 1000 if you need more power (or just rent from calumet). Also all kinds of used Speedotron gear is available used at Calumet and Helix in Chicago (also all the other calumet stores) and you can just call and ask. I got lights for about 50% off that way. just my humble thoughts

[mike butler]

Some of it has to do with image and getting respect.

 

A pro could take a perfectly good shot with Alien Bees and a Canon, but he has to show up

with Hasselblads and Broncolors.

 

You can build a dynamite portfolio mid-tier equipment, but when the agency calls, have

your Amex ready.

 

;-)

[brian.]

Dynalites, Profoto, Norman, Speedotron,... they are professional grade equipment for a

reason. They are not used just to impress someone. You can rent them if you need

additional light. They can be repaired and used for years.

A good photographer can light with any brand of equipment. But you do get what you pay

for. The difference between a very good photographer and a professional photographer is

one has to make a great photograph first time everytime.

I use Dynalites now, but also have used Normans, Speedos, and Profotos. I suggest

Dynalites.

[richard_cochran]

We just discussed this very subject a couple of weeks ago. See <a href="/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00IfoP">this thread</a>.

[garry edwards]

We don't get a lot of choice here in the UK. My choice is Elinchrom - personally I don't feel that clients are even remotely interested in the brand of equipment used, and I certainly don't feel a need to impress them.<p>

 

I use Elinchrom pro units (pack & head) for the following reasons:<br>

 

1. Consistent colour temperature regardless of power setting<br>

2. Consistent power output between shots<br>

3. Easy-fit and securely fitted accessories<br>

4. Very good range of well-designed accessories<br>

5. Bright modelling lamps<br>

6. Fast recycling time<br>

7. Good build quality, good reliability<br>

8. Good range of power & stepless power adjustment.<br>

9. adequate power - I have 1x 1200J monolight, the power packs range from 2,400J up to 6,000J

[beauh44]

Hi Josh, I use "The Bees" and you make a good point and I won't disagree that there are better-made lights out there. But I couldn't help applying the same logic to everything else: Did you get a 1Ds Mark II and nothing but "L" glass for it? Or perhaps a Hasselblad H1 MF digital camera? Maybe so. But we all have budgets to live within and make decisions about where it makes sense for us to buy the absolutely best product and where we might not have to. For example I like shooting outdoors and my "studio" is in my home. So it didn't make sense for me to dish out a ton of money on the most expensive lights. I could probably afford to drive a "better", more expensive car but my Subaru gets me around just fine! ;-) Finally, I'd add that I've met a "pro" or two who used Bees too and I suspect no one could tell you what lights anyone uses (well maybe looking at catchlights) in any given photograph. But I understand why some photographers absolutely need lights built sturdier than a "Bee". I'm just not one of them at the moment anyway. Good luck!

[bill c.]

Josh-- I'm a working pro, have been for a looong time. I have high-end strobe equipment, and I supplement it with Alien Bees.

 

My feeling is that the Bees are great for the stuff they were designed for, which is fast-and-light location work (weddings, events) or a beginner setting up a studio to learn the craft.

 

Just keep in mind that photographic strobes have to do these things:

 

-Put out a consistent amount of light

 

-Put out a consistent color of light

 

-Have a length-of-output that is compatible with your equipment and photographic goals (some strobes put out very short pulses of light that can cause color shifts or other technical problems, a very few strobes put out pulses so long that they can't freeze motion properly)

 

-Be reliable

 

-Be sufficiently modifiable (adapters for softboxes, umbrellas, etc.)

 

 

If you can afford them, Elinchromes are fantastic kits, no doubt about it. But when you really boil it all down, the most important piece of lighting equipment you can own is the grey stuff between your ears.

 

The Bees will put out a good quality of light to within three tenths of a stop over their entire range. Elinchromes will hold to within a tenth, usually. Elinchrome modifiers can put out amazing qualities of light, but Paul C. Buff has light modifiers that no other system has (check out the Moon Unit).

 

Take a 60-degree reflector on either an Elinchrome or an Alien Bee with the color-corrected tube, pop it into the same brand of umbrella, and I doubt that you would be able to tell which light is being used on the resulting photographs.

 

And if you want light that is a bit more consistent shot-to-shot, White Lightnings are made by the same company and have a better build quality with more consistent light output, for not all that much more money.

 

And yeah, I've shot magazine covers with Alien Bees. All told, I'd much rather have a White Lightning (or even Alien Bees) kit with 10 heads than an Elinchrome with one, given that I only had a certain amount of money to spend. There are times I need lots of heads to do what I need to do.

 

You get what you pay for, but you don't buy a low-slung Ferarri road car for a daily commute down a ten-mile gravel track. You get what you need for the job that needs to be done.

 

My advice? Learn with the Bees, or with White Lightnings. When you learn enough to realize what your actual needs are, you'll be able to get what you need.

 

Best of luck. -BC-

[vcallaway]

First off, just about every piece of studio gear out there is overpriced.

 

Paul Buff has done some pretty clever things electronicly to bring the cost of his lights down. I actually tore down a White Lightning unit a few years back because I needed it working imediately. I was fairly impressed with the simplicity of the design.

 

I own a couple of Alien Bees B800's that get dragged out on location. I'm probably more careful with them than I would another brand because of the plastic housing, but I've not had one break.

 

Most of the high end systems I've used have not really changed much in the last few years. Technology has moved in leaps, but these guys are still cranking out the old expensive designs. In their defense those systems are still working.

 

While Alien Bees will fit the needs of some of us, they are not a one size fits all. For one they are really not that powerfull by commercial standards. Even Buff saves his more powerfull units for the more expensive White Lightning line. You also get better construction for the bigger guns.

 

When I first started in the biz Novatron was the hot ticket. They made a low end pack system. They were poo-poo'd by many photographers, but there are lots of those 20 yr old systems cranking out shots. Novatron is still around. They are one of those companies that is still cranking out 20yr old technology.

 

There are lots of guys out there doing great work just using camera strobes. Just google the word stro bist to find them. It's not about the money you spend. It's about what you need to do the job at hand. The Bees have a strong re-sale value. If you buy them and find they don't fit your needs you can turn them for about what you paid for them and go to something else.

[phoneguy]

I use the "Bees" There is nothing wrong with them. Buff has a great company, and a great product. You can't possibly fault them for not charging enough. Their cstomer service is second to none. I will always use Paul C. Buff products.

[italian464]

As you can imagine, there are tons of different opinions and it comes down to personal preference vs. actual need. In my opinion, if you are in need of studio lighting than "the bees" will work fine, but if you are looking at on-location lighting... might I suggest looking into Lumedyne Products. Lumedyne has plenty of options to choose from. I love using their products and will continue to use for many years to come. Their systems are completely portable (two complete systems and two small light stands in a medium lightware case), but powerful enough to balance the sun. And to make it more of a studio light setting, you can get a/c adapters to add to your power packs so you are not running off of complete battery.

 

I currently use the p4lx packs (400ws packs), and signature series heads. There isn't much I can't shoot (from macro to sports).

 

This might be just what you are looking for, but there are plenty of other quality systems... choose what is right for you based on your own research.

[danny_liao]

There's a reason for the price difference. Just go to your nearest camera shop and

compare the cable on the Profoto head to any other brand...Speedo, Dyna Lite, etc. You

will easily notice how heavy duty the Profoto cable is compare tot he other brands.

Something as simple as that could tell you how reliable the product is. Now, I'm not

saying the other brands are not as good but I just want to point out that you DO get what

you pay for. Reliablity is definitely an issue. Just think about it this way, how professional

would you look if you're lighting kit clunks out on a shoot with a very important client?

 

Also, the higher end strobes will produce consistant results. With the cheaper brands, you

could get inconsistant output and color temperature. Which is a major drag!!! Also,

higher brands can produce faster recycle time which means you could shoot faster. This

could be an important issue if you like to shoot fast action stuff or fashion. Flash duration

is also an issue to be considered. Faster the duration, the easier for you to stop fast

action so you really have to think about your needs. On the other hand, if you want to be

a portrait photographer then you probably don't need the fast recycle time or a fast flash

duration cause the subject is usually stationary. If that's the case, maybe something in

the middle of the price range would be okay for you with average recycle and flash

duration time. However, don't ever sacrifice reliabilty. Don't buy anything low end!! In

my opinion, reliablity is the most important factor.

 

One last thing to consider. If you get anything on the high end, I will warn you now that

every accessory you buy afterwards will be expensive. I have Profoto gear. I hate buying

accessories cause they run at upwards of $250 or more for just a damn reflector!!! I would

suggest Speedotron and Dyna Lite if you can't afford anything high end. They perform

just as well as Profoto, Broncolor, and Elinchrom. Much cheaper too but still as reliable.

 

By the way, if you're a student look into http://www.macgroupus.com/. That's where I got

mine. If it wasn't for the discount, I would have went with Dyna Lites.

[jacull]

You get what you pay for.

 

I think Mike Butler put it best: If you understand light, then you can build your portfolio with any equipment. But you'd better be ready to have some quality equipment if you want the agencies to take you seriously.

[william_fong]

You usually get what you pay for. But closer to the "higher" end, you also tend to pay for the name too. Look at Mercedes. Is it really three times the car of a Honda Accord? Best is also relative. What is best for you isn't best for me. I have a pair of two way Motorola radios I bought at Best buy for $40. My friend works on set for a TV show, and they use Motorola two way radios that cost $250 each. He can drop the radio off a building and still use it, I can't. But do I ever need that? Yes, generally you get what you pay for, but does it fit into your needs? Do you need equipment that is rated to run 24/7 if you're only shooting on weekends?