s. k. h. Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Hi there! I have a wedding coming up where the client wants pictures with a snowy background. This will be my first wedding in the snow. Any advice about the differences between snowy and no snow? Anything I should be careful about? I know it will be brighter as the snow would reflect more, but how does this change how I meter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
think27 Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 When I shot weddings in Stowe, VT - we'd often do weddings at the chapel on the slopes... We got lots of snow up there in VT - I religiously used a grey card in those instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 The meter will be fooled by all the brightness/whiteness. Learn how to use a gray card and meter from that. Or a handheld incident meter. Or meter the snow and adjust down. Of course, in any case, adjust exposure if using a digital and can see a histogram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w.smith Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Metering off of a grey card takes time and practice. An incident meter also requires time and practice, and will cost you to boot. So neither is a very desirable option on a nerve-wracking wedding... The fastest accurate way is to zoom in close and spotmeter the bride's skin, then lock (AEL), zoom out, compose, and shoot! And shoot everything in RAW if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_rubinstein___mancheste1664880652 Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 incident incident incident. And keep an eye on that histo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timcorridan Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 what if the brides skin isn't grey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason_mcgrew Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Well then she is still ALIVE and you had better be shooting fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico_digoliardi Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 <i>meter the snow and adjust down</i> Down? Stop down? That would create dark snow. Open up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmoody Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 I agree... doesn't snow = adjust "up"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_cochran Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 <cite>The fastest accurate way is to zoom in close and spotmeter the bride's skin, then lock (AEL), zoom out, compose, and shoot!</cite><p>Unless you're taking more than one shot. Autoexposure will try to re-meter with each shot, so you'll have to repeat the zoom in, spot, AEL, zoom out, compose, shoot sequence each time. Faster to put the camera in manual exposure mode, zoom in, spot meter, set the exposure, zoom out, compose, and shoot, shoot, shoot, recompose, shoot, shoot, etc. Manual won't reset your exposure until you decide to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 OK--semantics. I was thinking "adjust down" using Zone System. Adjust zone VII (whatever white is) down to zone V (middle gray). If you are thinking stops, then yes, adjust up as in open up. Also, when spotmetering skin tone, you usually need to open up at least a stop, since most Caucasian skin is about 1 stop lighter than middle gray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 As the others say --incident meter..1st choice. Or read the even lit snow (depends on your cameras' meter ) and open up nearly a stop (2/3rds in my 20d results ) > if you wish to maintain detail in that snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy s. Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 In lieu of a grey card you can meter off your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS1664879711 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 What if the photographer's hand isn't gray? ;) ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timcorridan Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 mines whiter than snow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjogo Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 ~~the hand should be an average Zone 6 -- according to what Ansel told me :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s. k. h. Posted November 19, 2006 Author Share Posted November 19, 2006 Thanks to all for the help. I did engagement shots yesterday- some in the snow, and I spot metered on the bride's skin. Most turned out okay, however the bride was maybe too pale? I shot in raw, so everything's useable, most of it doesn't need too much correction. Thank you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Did you open up at least a stop? If not, you were underexposing. Of the gray card "alternatives", this is the least accurate, because skin tone varies, as you found out. If you are going to use an alternative, use a known value--even your palm is more accurate, because you can actually measure the difference in value between your palm (which stays pretty constant) and middle gray. Even a piece of fabric is more accurate (as Al describes) because you can measure the difference and it stays constant. Spotmetering the subject's skin worked OK with film because of film's latitude, but with digital, it will only get you close (if you also open up at least a stop for Caucasian skin)--sometimes not close enough. I personally don't see what the problem is with carrying a 4x5 inch gray card in your bag and using it. It isn't that slow, and I find using an incident meter faster than switching to spot/partial camera meter, stepping up to the subject, metering skin, stepping back, recomposing/focusing, etc. With an incident meter, you take it out of your conveniently situated pouch or bag, measure (verify or calculate in your head if necessary), set camera, and shoot, and because you know what you are doing, the resulting image is correctly exposed. In any case, with both the in camera and incident meter, you should have pre-tested to determine whether the meter gives you correctly exposed images--for instance, I open up 1/3 stop from the camera meter because it underexposes by that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS1664879711 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Nadine and the others who say "use an incident meter" are giving you the best advice. If you don't heed this advise, you might do okay but you will be working too hard for potentially mediocre results. If you want to be the type of pro that can guarentee results, you need a few of the right tools. Let me say, without intent to offend anyone: a wedding/portrait photographer without an incident/flash meter in their bag is working with only half the tools they really need. This is just my experience and opinion... if you don't like ti or don't agree, please don't let me know. ;) ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron l Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 An incident meter will get you close, then the histogram will get you dialed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
think27 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Nadine is right on about opening up when metering skin! I shot for magazines, ad agencies and did weddings on the Mountain in Stowe constantly.. When working fast with weddings and skiers I didn't have any time for incident meters.. I attached my grey card to the outside of my camera bag and zoomed in to fill the frame in the light I was shooting in when needed. Boom. There were times I metered my hand and opened up to compensate. Oh - and much of the time I was shooting slide film (not wedding assignments) when expsosure was super important because you can't fix an overexposed slide. Bracketing helps as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_robinson2 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 What are you doing photographing a wedding if you don't know the basics of metering? Ever think of learning your craft? How about taking a model out in the snow and doing some tests so you can learn what you are doing instead of going online and asking for advice from people who may or may not know what they are talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_kaplan1 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Places like this forum are where the craft is learned these days. The days of the friendly and knowledgeable clerk at the neighborhood photography shop passing on what he knew to the younger generation are long gone. For the most part the local color lab is gone too. In many small towns the few established pros might not want to train the competition. Sure, there might be a community college course or two available where Sue lives, but the instructer won't know everything. Most schools teach photography as part of the art department, which has little to do with business reality, whether it be weddings or product photography. All too much of what used to be considered "common knowledge" about metering, lighting, exposure, and camera handling techniques will become harder and harder to learn if those with the information are unwilling to share it. Keep asking questions, Sue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS1664879711 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 J Robinson makes three (3) very good points. Going to discussion forums to get some tips is one thing, but for a working "professional" to be asking photo-101 level quesitons... well, one really does have to wonder. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s. k. h. Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 I guess I was asking how you attack a snowy situation and my question was a little vague. I have photographed people in the snow, animals in the snow, snowy scenes, just now a bride and groom. The wedding will be photographed indoors, but want to really nail an outdoor photo or two. Spot metering is what I use, and have always metered off of skin (bride or groom, or my own) in the available light to decide my settings. I have used grey cards but find they are just another extra peice of equipment to not lose. Everybody has a specific way they do things and I do appreciate feedback. Through these answers it seems like there is a split, many use grey cards, others of you use incedecent metering. Thank you all for your opionions/feedback/voice of experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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