503 CW vs. 555 ELD for Use with Digital Back?

[christopher_kluge]

I have a 501CM and have recently realized that it would be advantageous for the type of

work I'm doing to be able to advance the film while keeping my eye to the viewfinder,

hence I am thinking of purchasing a 503 CW body with winder or the 555ELD. I also

anticipate using a digital back at some point in the future (once they fall into my price

range.). With that in mind, for those of you already shooting digitally, do you have a

preference for one body over the other? I'm leaning towards the 503 with the thought that

if something ever went wrong with the winder motor, it would be cheaper and easier to

get repaired.

[david_papas]

I am using a 503 CW with winder with a Phase One back, I used to use a 500elx. I prefer the

503 CW becuase it is much more ergonomic to work with Hand held. The ELX alowed me to

trigger the camera from the computer which was nice. If I want to trigger the CW remotly I

have to use the infrared remote. Mechanically, I think they are both pretty bullet proof. You

may need to get either Cleaned and adjusted but if taken care of they will last forever.

CW better Hand held, ELD better on a tripod.

[q.g._de_bakker]

"<i>f I want to trigger the CW remotly I have to use the infrared remote. "</i><br><br>That's not the only option. You can use an electrical release cord of any length, that plugs into the Winder CW, and have the other end hooked up to something that is controlled by the computer (or a port of that computer itself).

[jeff.grant]

The 503CW with a V96C can be triggered from a PC. Plug a firewire cable into the imagebank, start Flexcolor and you are away. I use a 503CW with winder and V96C. It is a combination that works well for me either tethered or out and about.

[pinky_mirror]

I'm using 503CW with phase One H25 and no problem so far :)

[gary_ferguson1]

Christopher, I use Hasselblads with film and a Phase One P25 back. I use a range of V bodies, 203, 555ELD, 503CW, Flexbody, 903 SWC, and an old 500CM. If you tell us more about your photography I could offer better advice but essentially the 555ELD is primarily a studio/tripod camera where as the 503CW is a jack of all trades.

 

I'd also add that for digital work the only advantage of the 503CW over the 501CM is that the option of fitting the motor wind grip, the TTL/OTF auto flash exposure function of the 503CW doesn't work with digital. I'd hoped that Hasselbl;ad might release one last V series body with a pre-flash function to allow auto flash functionality with a digital back, but they seem to be running the V series down so I guess this unlikely.

 

If you're thinking about a long term digital future then I'm not sure the V series is your best bet. I use it because I've a lot of money tied up in V series lenses, I'll occasionally dabble with square format film, and the Flexbody, 30mm fisheye, and 903 have special and unique applications for the internal architectural work that I mainly do. But for someone building a medium format film/digital outfit for say fashion or travel or portrait/wedding work I'm not convinced that a dying V system would be the smartest investment.

[christopher_kluge]

Thanks for all the helpful responses. I'm primarily shooting editorial fashion

and portraiture, usuually in the studio with strobes. I prefer not to use a tripod

as I like to move around a lot when shooting, so it is helpful to hear about the

superior ergonomics of the 503CW.

 

But Gary, I'm sorry to read this: "But for someone building a medium format

film/digital outfit for say fashion or travel or portrait/wedding work I'm not

convinced that a dying V system would be the smartest investment." as I've

almost finished building my kit. I have the 50/80/120/180 lenses and a

metered prism, several film backs and the 501CM body. But I'm open to

suggestions as to what a better option would be. I purchased all my

equipment secondhand and it hasn't depreciated much, so I don't feel locked

in to what I already have.

 

FWIW, I also shoot with a Canon 20D, which is a fine camera. But I feel I see

the subject better and compose better looking through the larger viewfinder

image of the Hasselblad and I like the greater control of depth of field with the

larger format.

[gary_ferguson1]

Christopher, I give some reasons in another post here

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00IgTG&tag=

 

The V series is a well proven, professional workhorse with some superb individual optics. But like every camera system that's ever been made (or ever will be) it's got shortcomings that may or may not be important to your style of photography. If you use a V series camera with a digital back you need to be aware that,

 

1. It's fairly slow, about a frame per second

 

2. It needs a cable from the lens's synch socket to the back, this cable comes loose or fails, not all the time but often enough that you'll be aware of it. If you're in the business of capturing fleeting moments rather than static subjects this could cost you an important shot.

 

3. There's no TTL flash control, important for some photographers, especially for fill flash work

 

4. The Hasselblad V was never the gold standard in for hand-held operation, it's okay, but no better than okay.

 

5. Hasselblad are winding the V system down, it's very unlikely that there'll be any more development so you'll be cut off from any future technological innovation. For example Hasselblad are currently experimenting with digital lens correction, but this won't be possible with V series lenses, not even with third party modules like DxO because critical EXIF data isn't collected with each shot.

 

6. Hasselbad 500 series cameras have mechanical shutters, fine for almost all applications with film or digital. But potentially a problem if you need precisely matched exposures across a sequence of shots, such as for stitched shots or the "motor drive" sequences that you often see in fashion shoots.

 

7. Hire stores are gradually winding down their V system stocks.

 

8. Market stocks of important but discontinued accesories (such as the new style grip we discussed in another post) can only become older, tattier, and rarer as each year passes.

 

I use a V system with a P25 back for architectural interiors (I normally use the same P25 back on a Linhof M679 for the exteriors). It works fine for me because the shooting workflow is slow and deliberate; there's unique options like the Flexbody which allows some lens movements; there's a unique distortion free wide-angle in the 38mm Biogon/903 SWC; I always shoot from a tripod and for interiors it's normally at a height of about 40-45" which makes the waist level finders perfect; I never use fill flash; there's a 30mm fisheye and one or two fisheye shots seem to find their way into every final brochure so the clients must like them; and finally there's a magnificent but relatively light weight long lens in the 350mm superachromat with a matched x1.4 extender which is perfect for shooting high level architectural details.

 

The point I'm making is that just because a system suits me and my photography doesn't mean it'll be right for everyone. It's up to you to decide if the inevitable balance of strengths and weaknesses that are present in every camera system will help or hinder your style and your vision. But from what you've said I'd have thought the H series Hasselblad was designed with you in mind.

[tariq_gibran]

"2. It needs a cable from the lens's synch socket to the back, this cable comes loose or fails,

not all the time but often enough that you'll be aware of it. If you're in the business of

capturing fleeting moments rather than static subjects this could cost you an important

shot."

 

This is not the case with the newer Hasselblad CFV Digital back and probably one of its main

advantages over the other options.

[gary_ferguson1]

<<This is not the case with the newer Hasselblad CFV Digital back and

probably one of its main advantages over the other options.>>

 

Tariq, you're nearly right in that the CFV back is wireless with most

Hasselblad bodies althought not quite all. Still it's a stylish and practical digital

solution if you're 1) satisfied with 16MP, 2) happy with the 37mm square

sensor and the "crop" factor that goes with it, 3) don't need TTL flash exposure

control, 4) don't need particularly wide angle lenses, and 5) are comfortable

with the awkward hand-held ergonomics that characterises all 6x6 and 6x7

SLR's.

 

Ten or more years ago there would have been plenty of studio portrait and

wedding photographers who fitted this description. Nowadays I'm not so sure,

there's been a steady trend away from tripod mounted social photography

towards freer hand-held styles, which is what drove the growth of the 645

format. Today almost all of those guys have abandoned medium format in

favour of DSLR's.

 

Talking to UK Hasselblad dealers it seems the CFV hasn't been a runaway

success. It was a nice idea but I get the impression that a 16MP 37mm x

37mm sensor is very much a second best solution. And with DSLR's likely to

move decisively past 20MP in the next few months it'll further reduce the

appeal of the CFV.

[tapas_maiti5]

The reason the CFV hasn't been a runaway success may be the price and the existence of Phase One. I have a ton of Hasselblad equipment and looked at digital backs given the cost of getting top range Canon lenses. I have used hasselblads for 10 years and have just got used to them.

 

I rented a V96 back and it was awful from the use of the imagebank that cannot be backed up without flexcolour to the software itself and the menu system on the back.

 

Phase One in the UK have reduced the price of a refurb P20 to the same as a Canon 1Ds Mk II (?4,200 ex VAT); this come in a Peli Case with batteries chargers etc. The P20 has a standard sync socket and they are happy to declare it suitability for field work, it has no moving parts, fans etc. The menu system is really intuitive to use. Phase One also have an upgrade path for all their backs. To cap it all Capture One is brilliant software and the files are usable in other raw converters. The upgrade path was a big consideration just in case a P25 every hits my affordability criterion.

 

Hasselblad want nearly ?7,000 exc Vat for the CFV - a lot to pay for wireless triggering. The are too cheap to provide a battery and charger for that price. The battery sticks out under the back whereas the Phase One battery is integral. There is no upgrade path because Hasselblad would prefer to kill the V system.

 

My local dealer who sell Imacon backs and Teamwork where I got the P20 both say that they sell more backs for the V system than anything else. My local dealer seems to think that Hasselblad may be reappraising its desire to kill the V system, I hope so.

 

Whilst I am an amateur, the P20 was the same price as a Canon 1DS MK II (I think is a very important tipping point) but cheaper that buying a whole Canon system and lets me work the way I am used to. I only ever worked as wide as 60mm so perhaps a 40mm will get be back there at some point.

[tariq_gibran]

"5) are comfortable with the awkward hand-held ergonomics that characterises all 6x6 and

6x7 SLR's."

 

I would completely disagree with this point for myself at least as I find shooting my 500

hand held at waist level much more comfortable than shooting anything else and when

photographing people, its also more comfortable for them as well. No doubt its extremely

subjective but ergonomically, cradling the body with the left hand with the index finger on

the shutter button with the right hand left to focus and crank is very intuitive and quick for

me but I have been shooting this way for 20 years or so. I agree with the crop factor if

wide angle is required. The other points do not matter for me in the least. 16 large photo

site high quality MP will almost always be better than the same amount crammed into a

smaller area. Heck, look at the per pixel sharpness of the just 10MP Leica DMR and M8

which compare nicely with the higher MP Canons, some would even say they are superior

in some areas. Only point being that the quality of those pixels matter more than the

number. 10, 16, 22, 39 whatever. Same per pixel quality sensor requires a 4x increase to

just double the resolution

[gary_ferguson1]

<<My local dealer seems to think that Hasselblad may be reappraising its

desire to kill the V system, I hope so.>>

 

So do I and tens of thousands of other V system users around the globe. But

Hasselblad's actions speak louder than one dealer's conjectures, and that's

been a continuous programme of V system delists across the last three years.