steven_moseley1 Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Hi, I shoot manually and with AE as I see fit. I do not want to trawl through menus to adjust compensation. This is one of the most annoying aspects of most digital 'wunderkameras' it is not good ergonomics, but then top rate ergonomics are not one of Leica's strong points. Contax had a much firmer grip on ergonomics than Leica.. cheers Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_brown4 Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 It's simple, f8 and use 1/250 on the sunny side of the street and 1/60 on the shady side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdnyc Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 <so apparently users were asked and responded that they wanted AE, but didn't want an easy method for setting compensation> I believe users indicated they wanted a sensor where the film has been but otherwise wanted to retain the ergonomics and shooting experience of the Leica M film cameras. For most such users, that means adjusting the aperture and shutter speed in response to lighting conditions on the basis of judgment rather than automation or pre-programmed compensation. (As an aside, why is it that I find I agree with almost everything you write on the S&D Forum and almost nothing you write here?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Tardio Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 You're right, Jonathan, as long as you are shooting in manual mode. <p> But if you're shooting in aperture-preferred, and you try to compensate by adjusting the aperture, the camera automatically changes the shutter speed to compensate for that change. <p> Thus the need for electronic exposure compensation. And to bury it in a menu is a major blunder. However, if the camera has an exposure lock button (I'm not sure), that would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdnyc Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Jim, I don't own an M7 and have never shot with one, but I have read in this forum that depressing the shutter button halfway locks the shutter speed. Exposure compensation would thus be possible in AE mode by adjusting the aperture after locking the shutter speed in this manner. If this is incorrect...well, I'll stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 <I>I believe users indicated they wanted a sensor where the film has been but otherwise wanted to retain the ergonomics and shooting experience of the Leica M film cameras.</I><P> So AE made it in by mistake then - rather than user-request as you suggested? Guess that explains how compensation got buried into a menu. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdnyc Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 <So AE made it in by mistake then - rather than user-request as you suggested? Guess that explains how compensation got buried into a menu.> Of course AE was added in response to user requests. But it did not change either the ergonomics of the camera or the shooting experience of manual shooters, as it is simply one more setting on the existing shutter speed dial. Exposure compensation got "buried" in the menu apparently because Leica wanted to keep to a minimum the number of additional buttons on the M8. People who are accustomed to using a fully-automated camera might consider this a major omission, but for most Leica shooters, who are accustomed to compensating manually, the omission is no big deal. Since existing Leica owners are probably the primary market for this camera, the omission hardly qualifies as a mistake. Brad, would you have been in the market for an M8 if it had included a separate exposure compensation control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 I have a Bronica RF645 that has the AE compensation wheel right in the back, right where your thumb rests. Its very easy to use and just works, but to tell you the truth I rarely used it prefering to manually adjust exposure. Of course people on the internet forums complained that it was too easy to use and that you could accidentally move it and never know. You can't please everybody. If the exposure compensation is buried in the menu, a good workaround would be to lock exposure on a correct value in the scene and then reframe and shoot. Can the M8 do that? I just got done reading the review and watched the little video at the end. I have to say that this camera really looks cool and should make a great compliment to a pros slr kit or maybe even a medium format film shooter. Due to the fact that the only way I could get this camera is to sell my car and keep the money from my wife, I won't be getting one soon, but I would like one if somebody wants to buy one for me. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 <I>Since existing Leica owners are probably the primary market for this camera, the omission hardly qualifies as a mistake.</I><P> I'm glad you characterized that market as Leica <I>owners</i> rather than <i>photographers</i>. In that case I will agree with you.<P> <I>Brad, would you have been in the market for an M8 if it had included a separate exposure compensation control?</I><P> I'm not in the market for another cam as the one I have now works fine. But if I were, that ommision would strongly influence my decision in a negative way - seems like an otherwise fine cam. But then I view myself more a photographer than equipment owner. Even my $200 canon A620 has direct compensation control. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 So to be a "photographer" I have to use exposure compensation? To tell you the truth, I don't ever use it. I usually just meter manually and adjust accordingly using shutter speed or aperture (why I like having aperture rings on lenses) depending on the scene. Makes life easy and it is only slightly more taxing on the brain than using the stick shift in my car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 <I>So to be a "photographer" I have to use exposure compensation?</I><P> You're being disengenuous. What I'm saying, and I'm sure you got it first time, is that a photographer will be far more interested in compensation than one who is just an owner.<P> <I>You've used the exposure compensation on an M8 in "street shooting"? Do tell... </I><P> More disingenuous prattle. I didn't say that. I am very familliar with digital and exposure compensation. On both my cams I turn a dial.<P> <I>If it fulfills some need for you to believe you've made me your victim, be my guest. </I><P> What is it with reading comprehension.... I never said you were my victim. You are your own - it's a role in which you relish. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael s. Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 << ... a photographer will be far more interested in compensation than one who is just an owner. ... >> Call me a photographer/call me an owner. Either way, Brad, at those prices, I'd be desperately in need of "compensation." :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 As evidenced by your work, Michael, your definately a photograper. No need to be humble. :=) www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdnyc Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 <a photographer will be far more interested in compensation than one who is just an owner> ...and a photographer who is accustomed to working manually, as most Leica users are, will be less interested. Even Leica shooters who use AE know how to press the shutter button halfway and then adjust the aperture for compensation. You may prefer a camera with a particular feature set, but that's no reason to derogate people who feel otherwise as mere "owners" as opposed to real "photographers." Very often, it's the most experienced photographers who are least in need of the features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Blah,blah, blah. Where are the photos? Just a link, sort of playing it safe. Tip toe through the tulips stuff. Show me, don't tell me....links to this site are usually lacking, big style....... Dare they post,knee tremble stuff.....you remember, you old foggies, when you got it on. The good old days. Okay, i will help.......the humble 199 gbp Leica lens.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Don't tell me,look at the print, look at the red dot.. Yeh, right. One born every minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/leica-m8.shtml I don' t think that in all my years of writing camera reviews Yeh,right, better rush out and buy 10. Shame about the photos....but who cares about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Here's one for ya' Allen.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Herbert Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Thanks Mr Hicks, very nice. Mine too had a Leica lens. A cool lens;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew robertson Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 "Yeah, and no doubt there will be even more whiners annoyed that exposure compensation is set through the LCD panel on the back." Even DLSRs that cost 1/10th the Leica don't make you go into the menu to control exposure compensation. Leica must employ a few mentally challenged non-photographers in their design department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew robertson Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 BTW, the noise on the M8 at high ISO values is worse than my ancient 10D! That's got to be embarrassing for them. Then again, people never shoot Leicas in low light, DO THEY? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 How do you know Andrew? Do you shoot an m8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 And, pre-M7 days, Leica shooters never needed exposure compensation. It definately would not be a deal breaker for me, the price tag is the deal breaker for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim_Tardio Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 <i>...I have read in this forum that depressing the shutter button halfway locks the shutter speed.</i> <p> If that's the case, Jonathan, (I don't know), then, yes, that would work fine. And that would be fast, too. <p> My point is that in aperture preferred mode, you need some kind of fast compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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