Zoom Lenses

[Fotos53]

I've been thinking of buying two Leica zoom lenses, the 28-70 f3.5-4.5 vario-elmar (Japan) and a 70-210 f4 vario-elmar (Japan) as a way of getting into the Leica lenses without breating the bank and have a good working range of lenses to start. I already know about the quality of fixed focal lenses and the speed but sometimes you can't move around to reframe the image and having a zoom lens makes that a little easier plus the fact that you don't have a lot of extra weight to carry around with you and watch over. I'm wondering what your comments or opinons are on this. Thanks for your help in advance.

 

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Regards,

John

[alan_ball1]

I do not use R zooms (only fixed focal), but general agreement in the

Leica R user community is that the 35-70 f4 is the one to get. Leica

design, manufactured by Kyocera.

 

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The 28-70 f3.5-f4.5 is an already old Sigma design, and, according to

most sources, not on par with current Leica designs.

 

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The tele would be the current 80-200 f4, also produced by Kyocera.

[jay_.]

The 28-70 (1st version with sliding hood) is a Sigma lens (opticall

the same as one they made in many other mounts) which Leica had them

make up in a barrel resembling the Leica R cosmetics; the latest

version is the same optics mounted in the identical barrel as the

current 35-70, for economy (Leica's, not ours!). The 70-210/4 was a

Minolta lens (which they also offered in their own MD mount)again

trnasplanted into a Leica-like barrel. These aren't poor lenses, but

you can get the same lenses (or ones of similar or better

specification) to fit other camera bodies for a lot less money. If

you are going to pay the price and live with the quirks of the Leica

R system, I can only think of one reason, and that's to have Leica

glass up front. The current 35-70/4 and 80-200/4, while built in

Japan by Kyocera, are Leica designs, and from personal experience I

can say they are excellent. They can be found used or gray-market at

quite reasonable (for Leica) prices. Eventually, round it out with a

1st-version 28/2.8 for wide shots, and a 50/2 for low-light. Both of

these lenses are sharp, small and can be bought very economically

second-hand.

[MTC Photography]

Leica's strength is in fix focal length lenses, due to their long

history <p>

However, in zoom lens area, Japan companies has about twenty years

lead over Leica, majority of zoom lens design formula are invented

by Japanese. <p> In terms of design, Japanese design are better than

Leica designs.

<p> Optical designer Jihei Nakagawa of Sigma Corporation invented

an innovative four group zoom lens, in which group 1 is linked to

group 3, and group 2 is linked with group 4; lens group1/3 and

lens group 2/4 can move relative to each other while mantaining

the fixed distance between 1/3 and between 2/4. His design greatly

extended the zoom range of zoom lens, and makes choose of glass and

optimization of abberration easier.<p>

Leica still uses one fix group and one moving group design, hence

the magnification range of Leica design is much limited, way behind

Japan design.

<p> 28-70/f3.5-4.5 version 1 and 2 are indeed Sigma design,

and implemeted Sigma's 2-2 moving group technique, it is an

advanced design with very good performance. Leica has nothing

equals, because, the formula is owned by Sigma.

<p> You can buy Sigma lens in Nikon, Canon mount, but not in Leica

mount, it would be cheaper. But Leica chose to subcontract this

lens to Sigma with Leica mechanism-- that is why it weights

50% more than similar Sigma lens in for intance Canon mount. It will

take Leica probably another decade before they can catch up with

Canon, Nikon, Sigma in Zoom lens design.

<p> Sigma 4 group zoom lens is a very succesful design.

[MTC Photography]

35-70 zoom has only a 2x zoom range, nobody, except Leica still

uses 2x zoom on SLR. <p>

In 28- 70, 28-80 or 28-85 zoom with aperture between f3.5-4.5 is

very popular because of its compact and good performance.

<p> If you want this range, the two best zooms are

Sigma and Carl Zeiss (for Contax RTS ), you will not find any other

makes better.

<p> AFAIK, the complain on Sigma lens is not the optics, but

the housing, which seems not durable.

<p> Sigma made 28-70/3.5-4.5 for Canon, Minolta, Nikon, Pentax

mounts, however, the construction is metal AND plastic.

<p> Leica Vario-Elmar 28-70/3.5-4.5 combines the best of Japanese

zoom lens design with the best of Leica lens housing, you get the

best of both worlds.

<p> 35-70 certain will be better then 28-70, just like fix focal

length is better than zoom, in terms of performance.

<p> IMO, 35-70 good as it is, the zoom range is too small, it

painfully shows the backwardness of Leica in zoom lens design, not

a hallmark of design excellence.

[ray_moth]

Martin makes a good point; I don't see zoom lenses as Leica's forte

either. All my R lenses are primes. However, Tamron zoom lenses are

usually considered to be pretty good and I know that Tamron sells

an "Adaptall" mount for Leica R cameras. I've never tried a Tamron

zoom with my Leica R8 but I daresay I'd be happy enough with it if I

did. Just a thought!

 

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Regards,

 

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Ray Moth

[MTC Photography]

Ray, it happens that I have a Tamron 28-70 /f3.5-4.5 zoom lens for

my Minolta. I could have bought and adapter for my R5 to use the

same Tamron.

<p> However, Tamron lens has quite visible distortion and 28mm and

70mm end, and was not satifactory.

<p> German Bamim Schultze Laboratory tested a series of zoom lenses

and rated Leica Vario-Elmar 28-70/f3.5-4.5 the best five star ^^^^^

zoom lens with a performance index of 9.6, the highest among all zoom

lenses in the same range.

<p> Samples

<p> Angenieux AF Canon 28-70/f2.6 8.8 metal/plastic construction

<p> Canon 28-80/3.5-5.6 9.2 metal/plastic

<p> Minolta AF 28-80/4.0-5.6 8.6 metal and plastic

<p> Nikor AF 28-70/3.5-4.5 9.0 metal and plastic

<P> Sigma AF 28-70/3.5-4.5 CANON EOS 9.6 metal and plastic

<p> Leica 28-70/3.5-4.5 9.6 ALL METAL CONSTRUCTION

 

Leica/Sigma rank best

Canon, Minolta second

Nikor third

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It is worth mentioning, Sigma AF 28-70/3.5-4.5 CANON EOS weight

330 g 63.5mm

<p> Vario Elmar 28-70/3.5-4.5 weight 468 g, and 84mm in length

<p> Vario Elmar is much longer and heavier the the Sigma, and

it is the ONLY ALL METAL ZOOM lens in this range, with no plastic

parts

<p> Vario -Elamr is clearly not a "rebadging" business.

<p> Trust the Leica lens designer, when they chosed Sigma design,

they indeed made the best choice.

<p>

<p> Leica Vario Elmar R 70-210/f4 9.2

<p> Nikor AF 70-210/f4-5.6 9.2

<P> Sigma AF UC AF 70-210/4-5.6 9.2

[MTC Photography]

I forgot to add, Bamim Schultze Laboratory in Germany also tested

Leica 35-70/f3.5 zoom, and rated as 9.0

not even as good as a Taromon 28-70 at 9.2

<p> The Leica 28-70 is far better

[joseph_barbano]

I've been using Leica R for about 17 years in combination with zooms

and fixed focal length lenses. The zooms, dollar for dollar, are a

good entree, and the quality will exceed your expectations. Leica

purists (whomever and whatever they are) might disagree; many whom

have no first-hand experience with Leica zooms. You will still get

those "knock your socks off" results with zooms as well as the

versatility over fixed focal length lenses.

[augusto]

I sold my Angeniux-R 35/70 2.5 because of its lenght and short focal

range and bought Leica Vario Elmar 28/70, second generation. It's not

a good lens, and I'm very unsatisfied with it. Its distorsion is very

very very big and you can see it at first glance (I mean in the

finder, not in the photos , that's worse). I will probably sell the

whole thing and go back to nikon with fixed lenses.Regards. Gus

[h_k_cheong]

I own the Leica R VE 28-70 (ROM, version 2/3?) and the trusty 50/2

(Canada, version 3). I am not a lens/optical specialist or a Leica R

fanatics but the 2 zoom lens do have VERY high resolution and

produces the same "Leica" finish (contrast & colour) which is

consistent with my summicron R 50/2. IMHO, the VE 28-70 should be the

best and most ideal Leica zoom ever for a weekend photographer like

myself. When I don't need speed, the VE28-70 is my standard lens of

choice.

 

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On the other hand, my VE 70-210/4 (version 2) though rough in

appearance is mechanically solid and an excellent performer, although

a Minolta design, its performance in terms of contrast and colour is

consistent with the Leica Summicron 50/2 of the same era. I have

compared the same MD mount minolta 70-210/4 (owned by a good friend)

and the difference of the 2 lense lies is in the colour tone with

other variables like exposure, film speed and subject being the

same. IMHO, the Leica coating of the lens and choice fo glass might

have made the difference.

 

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Regardless of real or perceived differences or similarities, what

matters most IMHO is that the owner must like and enjoys making

pictures with his trusted camera and lenses.

[ivor_quaggin1]

I agree with Mr Cheong's comments on both lenses, but

particularly the VE 28-70 ROM. Having read the often negative

comments about this lens, I have done my own un-scientific

testing using both slide film and negative film with enlargements

to 11X14. The colour rendition in the transparencies is

indistinguishable from my 50mm Summicron R and my 35mm

Elmarit 2.8 and sharpness and contrast are comparable. The

extremely negative comments I have seen just do not apply to my

lens, and as for seeing distortion through the finder, my slides

are projected on a decently large screen and I certainly don't see

much in the way of distortion.

[wgpinc]

While I use Leica R and M cameras a lot I suggest that if you want to

use zooms you would be a ton better off buying an EOS 3 or even an

Elan 7 with their 17-35 L, 28-135 IS or 28-70 2.8 L, 70-200 2.8 or

4.0 L. This is a relatively inexpensive way to get some of the best

zooms in the world right now along with auto focus. They really are

fantastic. Leica zooms are probably great but this is the way I would

go if I wanted zooms.

 

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Regards,

 

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Don

[alan_cheong]

Would like to share some interesting travel photographs done by Mr

Tong a Leica user. He has some excellent examples works done with the

Vario-APO-Elmar-R 70-180/2.8 and Vario-Elmar-R 28-70/3.5-4.5 "Sigma

blood" lenses.

 

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http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~taiji/gallery.html

 

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Enjoy

[john_greaves]

I read all your comments about the VE 28-70 ROM (cat 11364) with

great interest, and feel I have become a bit of an optical specialist

on it. Those of you who are impressed by the sharpness are right to

be, but Gus's complaint about the distortion is also dead right. Go

to http://www.photodo.com and compare the distortion figures for this

lens against others, particularly at 70mm. I also have a 1996 Barnim

A Schulze test report on the old 28-70 (cat 11265) whose figures

are -2.1 and 3.1%. Figures over 4% would be classified

as "considerable" by the UK Practical Photography magazine. Leica

describe the distortions with cat 11364 as "very minor". Try

photographing something with straight lines near the edge of the

picture with it at 70mm.

[john_greaves]

Further to my last posting, and having bought a new Tamron 28-70 mm

manual focus lens (model 159A) I re-read Martin Tai's comments of 13-

14 May 2001. Having done a preliminary test for the distortion at

70mm with the Tamron, it's clearly much less than for Leica's 28-70

at 70mm. If you go to photodo.com you will find that Leica's lens

has 4.44% distortion at 70mm whereas most other 28-70mm zooms have

figures of 2% or less. Regrettably no figure for the Tamron is

quoted. I pointed this out to a Leica representative from Solms, who

considered that this compromise was necessary in the design to

achieve high edge to edge resolution. I was not impressed.