5D or just better lenses?

[peter_gardner]

With the lastest double rebate out for the 5D, I've been tempted to upgrade.

But maybe I should invest in better lenses instead? Help, please.

 

I hike/car/walk around shooting probably 90% outdoor, playing with general

landscapes, waterfalls, mountains, a few birds, and nightshots. Wide angle

seems more important to me than tele. Though, versitility of only one lens is

important to me on long hikes/backpacking. Right now I'm using:

Canon EOS 10D

Canon 28-135 IS USM (my workhorse)

Canon 20-35 USM

Canon 75-300 IS USM

Sigma 50/2.8 1:1 (for macro only)

 

Not happy with:

Noise at 3200 iso

Noise at 200+ iso for exposures greater than 1 minute

Need a little wider than my 20-35

The 75-300IS just plain looks bad at almost all settings.

Wish all images were sharper (yes, played with settings)

 

So, my justification for the 5D is better NR (though, I'd like to hear from

someone who's had both the 10D&5D and shoots long exposures for their account),

full-frame for easier wide-angle, and having more than twice the number of

pixels wouldn't hurt either. I would also get one L-series lens to start along

with the 5D body.

 

If I get the 5D, I already know I'll be missing the built in flash, as I use the

one on the 10D frequently while hiking (without my 580) and backpacking to help

fill close subjects in the dark forest (though I always have a tripod, maybe I'd

just use it more with the 5D).

 

On the other hand, maybe I should dump the lenses I have and replace them with a

couple high-quality L lenses? I don't usually print larger than 13"x19" so

maybe the extra pixels are a waste of money for me.

 

Thanks for input,

Pete

[leopoldstotch]

I can't really help you with youre body decision, but if you want a great walk around lens for any camera, I recommend the 24-70 f2.8L. Great lens, and apparently just what you are looking for. The lower aperture also makes it great for night shots.

[vorlandphotography]

I've owned both the 10D and 20D, and bought the 5D last time the rebate came out. Excellent cameras, but not nearly in the same league as the 5D. I shoot portraits, fashion, landscapes, street, some sports. It's wonderful shooting full frame again. Actually, my favorite lens these days is my least expensive, the 50 mm 1.4. Also own 17-40L, 85, 70-200L. Get the 5D and don't look back.

[albert3]

You may consider upgrading a little of both. I don't have experience with the 5D, but I do have both the 20D and 400D. Both of these cameras are excellent. If using for hiking the 400D or 350D would be nice choices due to the size and weight. The 20D has very nice noise performance with the 400D being only sligtly behind. I suspect that the 350D and 30D are very similar to the 20D. So for the money you would spend on a 5D you could probably sell the one or two of the lenses you have and update thoses lenses and get a new body. Any of the bodies listed above would give you much noticed improvement over the 10D, and give you more than satisfactory performance at 13x19 and beyond. I think you said it in your post. Dumping some of those lenses and getting some L glass would be my vote and to help save the money I would go with one of the 1.6 crop factor bodies and spend the money on the lenses. As for easier wide angle. I hear the 10-22 ef-s lens is great. I just purchased it but have not got it yet. I do plan on eventually getting a full frame body and may eventually have to sell it, but this to me is the best solution for now. Anyway it probably will be good to keep a 1.6 body in the future just for the help on the tele end.

 

Good Luck

[ronaldo_r]

have you considered a 20d or 30d WITH better lenses? Its ISO 1600 is totally usable; should be way better than your current 10d.

[Landrum Kelly]

Get the 5D and one good IS lens for now. You can add to the collection as time and money permit. You won't regret the 5D, that's for sure, unless you shoot a lot of telephoto for birds, etc., where the other EOS DSLRs might be more to your liking.

 

You won't miss the built-in flash--just get used to carrying the 580 with you in your bag, along with some fresh batteries. It's worth the trouble.

 

The Canon 5D with a couple of good lenses (including the 70-200 2.8 L IS) and a good flash have changed the way that I look at photography. Photography is really fun again.

 

Just my opinion, of course. . . .

 

--Lannie

[m_barbu1]

I've read a number of reviews that indicated that because the 5D is a full frame camera, it will illuminate any inadequacies of a lens. I would suggest not getting the 5D, unless you will also be using the highest quality lenses with it.

[wolver]

I have a 10D, 20D and 5D and the 5D blows the other two out of the water as far as a reduction in noise. Stick a 17-40 on a 5D and you have wide angle to die for. <br><br>

 

I would say go for the 5D seeing as you get $600 USD ($700 CND) rebate when purchased with an eligible lens, plus the lens rebate.

[neelesh_jethwa]

Peter, I agree with David, Kelly and Don. 5D is the way to go. After I got my 5D earlier this

year I have never looked back, its a great camera and once you use it you will realise what

you have been missing. 2006 Rebate should be another reason for me to buy 2nd 5D with

50mm 1.4 :) Good luck

 

Neelesh Jethwa, Hackensack, New Jesery

[jim_doty]

Peter,

 

FYI: I have the 10D/20D/5D and I have or used to have all of the lenses you listed except the Sigma macro.

 

The 20D is a big improvement over the 10D in terms of noise, the reason I upgraded. In my experience, the 5D and 20D are so close in terms of noise as to be equal. (Check the noise comparison for the 20D and 5D at DP Review.com) A 20D/30D will improve your noise situation a lot without needing to pay for a 5D.

 

From DP Review: "The overall noise performance from the EOS 5D is very good and by our measurements almost identical to the EOS 20D." Source page:

 

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos5d/page21.asp

 

The 5D does have the advantage of a bigger, full frame sensor. More here:

 

http://jimdoty.com/Digital/20d_5d/20d_5d.html

 

I've used the 75-300mm IS lens and find it disappointing at the long end. It is worth spending the money to get a better telephoto zoom lens. The newer 70-300 IS lens is reported to be better and I know the 70-300 DO IS lens is better from my own experience. Another great option is the soon to be available Canon EF 70-200 f/4L lens. For a chunk of money you can get the Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS lens.

 

The 28-135mm IS lens is a very good lens. I see no need for you to replace it.

 

The 20-35mm lens is a fine lens but not very wide on the 10D/20D/30D. If you get a 20D/30D, a wider lens would be in order, probably the EF 17-40mm f/4L lens or the EF-S 10-22mm lens.

 

If you get a 5D, then you will probably be happy with the 20-35mm lens (until the siren call of the 17-40mm lens gets to you).

 

The frugal option is to get a 20D or 30D, a better telephoto lens, and a wider angle lens than the 20-35. The 20D/30D will give you great 13x19 inch prints.

 

The more expensive option is to get the 5D and a better telephoto lens (and maybe a better wide angle lens).

 

I hope this helps.

 

Jim

[chrisjb]

Hi. I believe with really long exposures the sensor can get rather warm creating hot pixels and noise, not knowing how long your exp`s are. Astro foruns may help with more info.The faster the lens possibly give shorter exp, reducing some problems.

 

If you are carrying gear for long periods the lighter the better, L lenses are heavy but you maybe a strong person, If you can afford it my 02 cents would be 5D + fast 24mm lens, and 70 300mmDO.

 

good luck

[chrisjb]

BTW the 220ex would be a good alternative for the on board flash.

[mark u]

Regardless of your camera and lens choices, it's worth taking a look at the advice at this site for your night photos:

 

http://www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/astro/index-e.html

 

This software provides a relatively easy way to handle dark frame subtraction and image stacking:

 

http://www.tawbaware.com/imgstack.htm

[x]

Having used both cameras I'd recommend going for the 5D. The inherent lower noise plus larger sensor area (meaning smaller enlargement and therefore proportionally less impact from the noise) will both improve your pictures. While L glass gives fantastic results all of them are bulky and heavy. I'd recommend one of the cheaper primes 50/1.4, 85/1.8, 135/2.8 for showing how good the 5D can be while still being relatively light weight to carry.

Worth considering later if you can bear the weight is the 200/2.8L and the 1.4x extender.

[digitmstr]

Since you like wide angle and would like ONE lens to do it all (or most) an EOS 5D with the 24-79L is a great combo. I have it and rec'd it highly.

[saltcod]

It if were me and I had only enough money for a 5d I would buy a 30d and get nice lenses. without question. Alternately, if you've got just enough for a 5D now, I would buy it and use the money gained from selling some lenses and the 10d to buy a 24-70 or something like that. EIther way, I think the top priority would be to buy a good lens.

[jon_austin]

Unless you HAVE to have full-frame now, I'd recommend you get a 20D at its current blow-out price, and start upgrading your lens collection. If you get a 5D now and have no money for top-shelf lenses, you might agonize over not having them.

 

I upgraded from a 10D to the 20D for its better noise performance, instant on, faster frame rate and other minor tweaks. It's still going strong after nearly two years. In the meantime, I've built quite an arsenal of Canon primes and L zooms.

 

I've thought about buying a 5D, but I think I'll wait: its successor has the potential to include some or all of the following:

 

- DiGiC III (recently announced by Canon

 

- ultrasonice sensor cleaning (like 400D)

 

- faster frame rate (like 20D/30D)

 

- much brighter LCD (like 400D)

 

- built-in flash (like 20D/30D)

 

If so, it'll be well worth a few more month's wait; if not, the 5D should be available at least as cheap as with the current rebate.

 

Good luck with whatever you choose.

[h.l.]

If you don't like the picture quality of your lenses now, you won't like them with the new body. I'd go with getting some high quality lenses first.

[punzenberger]

As a owner of the 5D I can hihgly recommend this camera because of its brighter and larger viewfinder compared with the 10D. And with good telephoto lenses you get astonishing sharp pictures. But on the other hand I could not find actually a good wideangle, the all have problems with the full-frame sensor. So I kept my 20D with the Tokina ATX AF PRO 12-24mm 4.0 DX to get good quality wide angle shots.

[david_skirmont]

The image quality of the 5D will be limited by the lens.

I would spead the money on two or three L lenses.

17-40L, 24-105 IS L, 70-200L, 400 5.6L

 

My friend's D30 with an L lens is way better than another's

with a 20D and a non-L lens. It is the lens.

 

It is even more apparent on a FF camera. The 5D will only

show the issues with your set of lenses.

[david_jones16]

I have both a 10D and a 1Ds Mk II. I am not a pro, but at the time I wanted a FF camera

and the 5D was not available. (Think how I felt when it came out 6 months later :-)

 

With hindsight, after 3 years with a D10 and a years with the 1Ds2 (adding L glass along

the way) I would suggest that for most types of photography (landscapes might be an

exception here) you would probably take better pictures with the D10 and some top end

glass than you would with a FF/High MP camera with budget glass. Ultimately I think it is

what you want to do with the photos once you have taken them that matters most. I have

seen some 10D output on this site that I could only dream of taking regardless of what

camera I had, so that only makes me feel more like an upgrade junkie when I consider how

much my latest camera cost.

 

Chances are that within 2 years you'll be able to buy a FF 10MP+ EOS for about 50 to 60%

of what the 5D costs today. I don't think you'll get L glass for a similar saving in the same

timeframe. The 35mm (or similar FF) digital sensor is pretty much getting to the point

where 35mm glass is being pushed to the limit. I laugh when I see people asking when the

new 1Ds M 3 is coming out because the extra 4 or 5 MP they will pack into the body is

going to make zip difference to most people unless they are shooting for billboard ads.

 

But back to your actual question... The 5D looks like a great camera, but having upgraded

from 10D I question whether my photos have improved at the same rate as my

expenditure. And I'm positive that the primary reason that my photos have improved since

I upgraded the body is that I also upgraded the lenses at the same time. The only real

differences I get (given that I don't print beyond A3, is that I can drastically crop a photo

and still retain enough photo data to print a reasonable size, and that the noise issue

above 400 ISO is a lot less. Of course there is also the "joy of seeing things" FF when you

look through the larger viewfinder, which when you compare to the small scale finders on

the non FF camera relay is a world apart.

 

Whatever you do, remember to factor in the extra cost of getting a powerful PC or Mac,

since the files from a 5D will be a lot more demanding to process than those from a 10D.

 

Frankly, I've come to the conclusion that the best way to improve my photos is to "buy

time and experience" rather than equipment. So taking some time out to practice or go on

a course with a recognised pro is going to be my next investment over any equipment.

 

Just my 2c worth. Just make sure you keep the old camera, since my 10D is now my

backup I take it places and take far more risks with it than I did when it was my main body.

as a real I think I still take some of my best shots with it, over the newer camera. At the

end of the day it is all in the mind, the technology is merely a tool. :-)

 

Good luck with your decision.

[peter_gardner]

Thank you everyone for all the responses, it helps hearing from people that have been down this road. I will definitely be getting some new glass. And the timing may be pretty good for a new body. (Plus, my wife is looking forward to her "new" 10D if I upgrade.)

 

I like the range of the 24-105 f4 L IS and I'm totally sold on IS from my experience so far (though not thrilled over f4). I think I'll order this one and try it on my 10D before deciding on a body.

 

The 24-70 f2.8 L sounds great, but I'd like a little more tele for my everyday lens.

 

Down the road, I like the idea of the 70-200 f4 L IS... or maybe just a bigger prime... that's next year's problem.

 

Thanks again everyone,

Pete