Which 67 camera to go with?

[sm]

After testing my frieds Bronica RTSi 645 camera I liked the quality

and size of the MF camera. The film size advantage was clear. I want

to go for a 67 MF camera for the larger film area (I will buy used).

The Mamiya RB67 seem to get good reviews, but I dont know anyone

with hands on experiance with it. How is the hadling, vibration,

lens options?

 

I like to shoot handheld most of the time and wieght is not a big

issue. I mostly shoot portrates and use flash but will do general

photography with it. Price range is max 400 $.

 

cheers,

[fernando_mcsoto]

The RB67 is far heavier and bigger than the RTSi 645. Are you sure you want to go the 6x7 way? I shoot 6x7 with a Pentax 67, but I accept the compromise that I must carry a big load in exchange for the advantages of a bigger format. Money issues put aside, for an amateur who does not shoot in studio Mamiya 7II is best compromise size/quality. Pentax 67 is probably has probably the best value for money relation at this moment. Mamiya RB67 is fine too but much more on the heavy side than Pentax 67.

[troyammons]

Handling is fine, it just weighs 6# with a lens and back. Dual action. MLU is a little funky.

 

Not much vibration. I have used an RZ at 1/30 and 1/60 handheld with good results.

 

Plenty of lens options. Reasonable too.

 

I saw a nice RB pro complete with one lens and a back go for $230 the other day on fleabay.

[websterforrest]

Hi,

I used an RB67 for a few years. I had the Pro-SD version with K/L lenses - i.e. the latest versions of the body and lenses. I found the camera to be fantastically reliable, and to have wonderful optics. The 127mm lens is probably the best all-rounder, and never disappointed me in any context, whether portraiture, landscape, macro etc.

 

One thing to remember is that there is a very big difference between 35mm (or even 645) and 6x7 when using available light at moderate to low levels. One side of this is the speed of the lenses (f/3.5 is fast for 6x7, whereas with 35mm you can usually count on f/1.8 being your standard lens), and the other is the fact that the camera more or less has to live on a tripod unless you're shooting at quite high shutter speeds (with a 35mm camera and 50mm lens you're safe with anything above 1/60, but with an RB67 and the equivalent 90 or 127mm lens, it's more like 1/250 if youre using it hand-held). One thing to remember is that the RB67 is really huge - about the size of a shoebox. I have done my fair share of hand-held shooting with the RB67, but even with the rare but wonderful Multi-Angle Grip it is inconvenient to say the least. It's a bit like trying to hold a garbage bag open while you're filling it with hedge trimmings: it can be done, but it's a heck of a lot easier if you have something holding it up! If as you say you intend to use flash, the fact that the camera is fairly wobbly when used hand-held would probably be less important, both because of the higher shutter speeds you can use with all the extra light, and of course because of the effect the flash will have in freezing movement.

 

If you want to shoot medium format hand-held, I'd recommend either a twin lens reflex, or a Hasselblad. I have found the difference between a 6x6 negative and a 6x7 negative to be minor, but it can depend on what shape print you want - as a 6x6 negative cut to a rectangle is a bit like shooting 645: a fair bit smaller than the already rectangular 6x7. Personally I like square pictures. If you are fixed on 6x7 and hand-held, ask for feedback on the Pentax 67. I've never used it, but I've seen and held them, and they are much more 'handy' than the RB67, and the lenses should be of equivalent optical quality - but then again, if you use flash a lot, I think the RB might be better as, as far as I'm aware, the Pentax has a focal plane shutter - and probably has a very limiting maximum shutter speed for use with flash. As I say, I haven't used it, so I may be wrong.

 

The RB67 is reliable, but I have had mechanical problems with this as well as all other MF cameras; the optics are superb, but so are all the professional optics from the major manufacturers. My point is that the pictures will not be better because it's an RB67 as opposed to a Bronica or Hasselblad or Pentax, but the type of shooting the camera is best suited for is different between the brands. I'd say if you want to shoot hand-held in medium format, that either a Hasselblad or a Rolleiflex TLR would be a better choice.

 

As far as mirror vibration goes, every medium format SLR I've used gives a little jump when you release the trigger. The only way to avoid problems caused by this at slowish shutter speeds, other than pre-releasing, is to use a TLR or put your SLR on a tripod; so I'd say if you're set on an SLR, the mirror slap is equivalent to other makes.

 

If your final decision comes down to money, get yourself an older RB67 body, back, and finder - but a new model lens (marked K/L), as the optics and mechanics are improved. In terms of value for money, you can't really beat an RB67 - the question is will it suit your shooting style?

 

The best way to find out is to get your hands on one and give it a try.

 

Best wishes,

 

Webster Forrest

[joename]

Unless you're married to the idea of 6x7, I would go with a 6x6 too.

I have a Mamiya TLR that is amazing to hand-hold. I had an RB67, and

loved it. Still have the popeye arms too. I didn't mind hand

holding it, but I don't miss that aspect of it too much. The price

on them now is pretty amazing, so it would be hard to pass that up. I

also have a Mamiya 6 that for me, is the dreamiest of handheld MF

beauty.

[bueh]

You could also get a newer, electronics-controlled RZ67 that can use the modern Sekor Z lenses. This model has a couple of advantages as fool-proof interlocks, better viewfinder and a faster standard lens (f/2.8). Of course it also works with all the older RB67 lenses.

 

I like the handling of the camera, but still some things bug me (on/off switch not visible from above). You need to check out this camera yourself to know if you are comfortable with it. Vibration (aka mirror slap) is an issue with all handheld picture when using long-ish/portrait lenses. Photos taken on a tripod and with MLU are often sharper than the ones that were shot handheld regardless of shutter speed. The short 150mm is the best tele lens to handhold, in my humble opinion.

[geoff_mcauliffe]

Get a Koni-Omega. It is a rangefinder camera with excellent lenses. However the lens choice is limited to 58 mm (sometimes listed as 60mm), normal is 90 mm, short tele 135 mm (expensive and harder to find) and a 180 tele. Interchangable backs, sometimes in mid-roll depending on the model.

[terry_stedman]

I've used a RB67 handheld without problems. If you have a strap, its really no problem, though your arms will get tired. With a waist level finder, its not hard hold and fire both the camera and flash. With a prism, the thing gets really heavy. Its a two handed job, then. So if you want to hand hold the flash, then you need to get a monopod and grip. With all that, its like moving around a cinderblock on a pole, but I've done it, and everything turned out fine.

 

As for vibration, the RB67 has awesome vibration dampening. The firing sound is really loud, but the camera doesn't shake much. I've done 1/60th handholding with a 90mm lens, and the images turned out fine.

 

Nevertheless, you ought to consider that the rb67 is designed for use on a tripod. If you want to primarily handhold, you should get a camera designed for that - like a rangefinder or TLR. All the name brand MF cameras have good optics; the only real difference is that modern rangefinders are sharper.

[bueh]

Terry, handholding a 90mm or 110mm lens isn't an issue, but holding the front-heavy 180mm or longer teles steady when that mirror fires is quite a challenge, especially when focused close. I got even one or two "useful" pics at 1/30, but I get more and better pictures with a tripod when I use a portrait lens.

 

Another issue I encountered is the infinitesimal time between the "slapping" of the mirror and the actual firing of the shutter. Some models notice this and involuntarily bat their eyes which looks pretty stupid on the resulting photo. MLU works wonders here but rules out handheld shooting.

[sm]

Thanks all your feedback. Now I get a feel of what I'm venturing to. I considered the 6x6 first, but desided to go for higher rosolution of 6x7 as no croping is needed in my style.

 

A Hassie, too expensive at this stage and I really need to get a better scanner to complement.

 

I'll do some research for a while before deciding. I have me frineds Braonica to play with for now.

 

Many thanks,

 

SM

[mag_miksch]

RB rules^^, but look for a proS or SD with proper backs to avoid double exposures or forgetting the dark slide

[wayne_crider4]

In your price range an RB with a lens and back would most likely fall if available. There was one last week or so for $300. Personally I like the camera but I find myself shooting more 6x6 instead. The major complaint I have about the camera is having to add exposure with bellows draw if you do not have a metering finder, another expense.

[danaher_m_dempsey_jr]

Looks to me if you want to hand-hold a 6x7 SLR, you should look at a Bronica GS-1, with SpeedGripG. Leaf Shutter instead of focal plane better choice than larger Pentax 67. No bellows to mess with better than RB and much lighter. I bought one with speedgripG, 100mm lens, AE-prism, 6x7back for the $400 limit you mention. It should be here in a week. Condition supposedly quite good.

 

The RB definitely has a lot more lenses out there available on the used market.

 

Let us know what you end up with.