good 6x7 neg scanner for up to 24"

[shawngibson]

This might end up purely for information depending on the price, but

what is a good scanner for personal/artistic (i.e., slow, low

volume, high quality output) 6x7 black and white scanning, to be

output at home into either an Epson 7800 or HPDJ130 (not decided

yet)? I miss shooting film and I'm working towards being able to

shoot big, print big, for framing my work, so I'm very intrigued by

the idea of getting a Mamiya 7 and a good scanner. But regarding the

scanner, I'm completely out of the loop...never owned anything but

the most basic flatbed for document and occasional 'for web'

photographic use.

 

Anything out there that is affordable, and maybe slow/inconvenient

but capable of producing really good 2 foot prints?

 

I've no interest in farming the work out, to be honest I don't like

dealing with others for my artistic pursuits, even when it costs me

a bundle to do it all myself...the question here, I guess, is how

big is the bundle:)

 

Thanks:)

Shawn

 

Shawn

[paul_sokal___dallas__tx]

Shawn,

 

I'm a dedicated Nikon digital shooter, but I just obtained a Mamiya 645 AF on auction, and I have the same question about scanning MF negatives. I'll be curious to see the responses because I'm totally ignorant. BTW, can I come over to your house to use your 7800?

 

 

Paul

[shawngibson]

Sure I'll let you know when I get it - just bring your own ink:)

 

Have a lot of purchases in the next probably 12 months: 5D, finish my workstation and server, and the 7800/DJ130...part of this question will answer: should I get the Mamiya & scanner and something like a D200, or just a 5D, or both...i.e., it's a matter of costs involved...

 

I miss smelling like stop bath and Pyro...

 

Shawn

[custom film holders for fl]

If you have the money, look at a Nikon 9000 or Minolta equivalent (Multi Pro? - I can't keep their naming straight). You will probably want to factor in the cost of a Nikon glass holder if you go with the 9000. Next down the budget chain is to find one of these dedicated film scanners or their prior versions in the used market and hope you get one in good shape (repairs are expensive). Next in the chain would be one of the better flatbeds from Microtek, Epson or Canon. It all depends on how much you are willing to spend :)

<p> Doug<p>

<a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~dougfisher/holder/mainintro.html">Dougs

MF Film Holder for batch scanning of 120/220 medium format film with flatbeds</a>

[shawngibson]

OK, thanks Doug - that's what I was looking at, actually.

 

Nikon 9000 - http://www.vistek.ca/details/details.aspx?WebCode=214846&CategoryID=Scanners

 

I have no idea why I said Mamiya 7. Lovely camera, but I completely forgot owning 2 Pentax 67s in the past, and they would be more than adequate. Or I'm sure a 67II and 165mm lens and scanner would be less than $5,000 Cdn if I look hard. That's definitely better than a 5D if I am correct in assuming the Nikon 9000 is up to it for large prints.

 

I apologize, I'm really just thinking out loud. At least I know the Nikon 9000 is what I should be considering, and the price therefore.

 

Thanks for your help.

[clay_prescott]

Since you mention wanting to buy the 5D, wouldn't it be cheaper to just

buy that, and forget the scanner and medium format film route ?

Isn't the 5D body at Vistek under $4,000.00 CDN ?

If you were unhappy with "big" prints from the 5D then you could always

go to the scanner and film later on.

[shawngibson]

I'm sure I'd be quite happy with 5D prints. I think the bottom line here is, I'm trying to convince myself I can find a cheaper way. Just haven't got that far into poking myself in the ribs yet.

 

I have dedicated the next year-plus to camera/printer/computer...so one fell swoop with $4500 (tax) and a couple of lenses on top...that's a big chunk of cash. I've spend almost $5,000 so far and have 2 cases for the computers, Opterons for one, and some Raptors...barely scratched the surface...

 

If a 8-10Mp 1.5/1.6 crop and a medium format/scanner equals the same approx., over the 5D, maybe I am trying to convince myself to go that way so that it's not such a painful one-lump-sum on a camera that I know will be considered 'so yesterday' in 3 years...

 

Sorry for involving you (yet again) in my ridiculous thoughts...

 

Shawn

[eric friedemann]

I shoot Mamiya 7IIs, have an LS 8000 and, since you are looking for a "good," reasonably-priced scanner, I'd give a qualified "yes" for the LS 9000. I get really good scans out of the LS 8000, having learned to use it by trial and error (Nikon does not publish what anyone would reasonably think of as an instruction manual for the 8000 or 9000). And you could certainly make 24 inch prints from a 4000 d.p.i. scan from a 6x7 film. As was mentioned, though, you will probably find that you will need a glass flim holder for MF scanning:

 

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=218837&is=REG&addedTroughType=search<div></div>

[eric friedemann]

Shawn, I don't want to get into a 5D v. 6x7 argument, but if I were making 24" prints, I would choose to work with scanned 6x7 film over images from a 5D. I've seen a considerable amount of work from 5Ds come through my store and its an impressive camera, but I'd still have to go with a 4000 d.p.i MF scan for prints that large.

[shawngibson]

My whole goal is life-sized (approx.) 1/2 length portraits as a guide for my purchases. We're talking huge files, and you don't have to convince me that in the realm of the very-large, a 6x7 will be preferable to a 5D. That is certainly my position, justified or not. I'm certain a 5D is a great camera, but I know what to expect with a 6x7 neg from experience, and I don't with a 5D.

 

This is getting tricky. I'll certainly have to keep a digital, I'm spoiled, but it would end up being a small portion of my work, and largely it would be for dialing-in composition and exposure, and grabbing the 67 from there. I don't care about spending all day Saturday developing. To be honest, I miss that. There's nothing as beautiful as a black and white negative developed in Pyro...just too bad I can't buy Tech Pan anymore:(

 

This is turning into something I really have to consider. I have played with digital for several years now. I still don't feel like it's 'home'. And since I am trying to buy equipment I plan on KEEPING, really is there any such thing yet as a 'keepable' digital? No. Not in my eyes. "Good and does the job", sure, but everytime they bring out a new one, that $5,000-10,000 will suddenly feel like a big hole.

 

A Rebel/20D is one thing, 1/3 the price of a new car is another...

 

Well at least the scanner part is solved LOL:) Thanks guys.

 

Shawn

[elliot_n]

If you're in a big city, consider renting time on an Imacon 949 rather than buying your own

scanner. It's a pleasure to use and you can knock out about ten 350Mb 6x7 scans an hour.

[byronlawrence]

Mamiya is awesome!

 

I use a flatbed film scanner right now. and it does ok... but i would go for the nikon 9000 if I could with the glass holders

and next up from that if i coudl afford it i would go with an imacon flextight scanner.

[seandepuydt]

Shawn, right now, I'm looking at the 9000. I've heard only good things about it. There are a few services that provide 9000 scans for around 12.00 each, which may not be a bad way to find out they actually are. I just had a slide drum scanned to find out how it would look. - Sean

[cjogo]

Minolta Multi Scan Pro --has the glass holder ! --4800 dpi

 

I scan almost daily for the past 5 years--120 film 95%

 

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=288976<div></div>

[dylan_pappas]

I shoot everything with a Mamiya 6MF and was having the same scanning questions as you. I did a bunch of research and price comparisons. I ended up getting a used Nikon 8000ed from Craigslist.org for only $800. It turned out to need to be realined by Nikon ($200). Since then I couldn't be happier. Blown away by it every time I use it. And at half the price of the Nikon 9000, you can't go wrong. As other people said, I would highly recomend getting the glass film holder, as the stock plastic one just dosn't hold the film flat.

[shawngibson]

Thanks for the last 2 responses. The scanner is I suppose settled, 8000-9000 seems will be great, I can do more research. Well I know I am going on a tangent now, but...

 

As a speculative question, I've always used and loved Zeiss and Contax...How about a a Contax 645...does that sound like a feasible alternative? For example, buy a good used 645 outfit, and the scanner for now, and when the sting of the purchase is over, in a year or so, buy a decent digital back for it? Does that approach seem at all viable?

 

I would really like to get gear I don't have to replace for some years, and I'd like to be able to feel like 24" is within my reach, but I need to do so with the caveat that I have not only the camera or camera/scanner I'm purchasing, but the computer system (which alone will be approx. $12,000+ and has already cost almost $5000 with barely scratching into it) and the printer (which will be whatever the DJ130 or Epson 7800 is at the time)...

 

I realize I am a guy talking about spending a lot of money and complaining, but I am at a point in my life where I really know what I want to make me happy, and this - being fully equipped to finally do the photography I enjoy and output it the way I have always wanted to) has been many years in the coming. Albeit with a shoestring budget and a full willingness to have it take me a year or more to do...I started this in November, so I am in no hurry, I just want to make the right choices...

 

Any comments on a Contax 645+scanner now, and digital back later, over the other suggetions?

[elliot_n]

For ultimate print quality, the Mamiya 7 would make the most sense.

 

But then there are other factors, like your shooting style. For example, if you like to shoot

Polaroids, you would have to buy two Mamiya 7s (and an NPC back), whereas with the

Contax you could just buy a cheap pola back.

 

I shoot Mamiya 645 (and scan on an Imacon). I also shoot Fuji GSW69. For big prints I'd

love a Mamiya 7. It has the best lenses.

[frank_roman]

I have the combo Contax with Nikon 9000. The Contax has super sharp lenses and Nikon 9000 scans are very close in quality to Imacon 949. Nikon is a lot slower, but is also costs only 10% of Imacon. I upgraded to Imacon since the largest negative Nikon 9000 will scan is 6x9. I shoot 6x17 and it was a lengthy process for me to scan the negative half�s and than stitch it. What took 20 minutes each half now takes 5 minutes for the whole size at 3200 dpi. As Elliot suggested, renting time on Imacon is another option, which is how I decided to purchase it. However the time is not cheap and it will take a while to find out how to run it with best results. I do not use Nikon scanner anymore and if you are interested I will let it go including the glass holder. romanfl@hotmail.com

[elliot_n]

'However the time is not cheap and it will take a while to find out how to run it with best

results'

 

Very true. One option is to scan 3F files (a type of raw scan, with no user intervention) on

the rental scanner, and then process at home with a version of Flexcolor installed on your

own computer. That's what I do.

 

Imacon scanners come up on the used market. A friend of mine is about to sell his for less

than the price of a new Nikon 9000. (But wrong side of the pond for you.)

 

I considered buying it, but I have enough clutter here as it is. Renting by the hour really

suits me.

[van_camper]

I don't understand why you need to spend $12000 for a computer system,unless those figures are in non US/CDN dollars. I paid $3460 for my computer system (monitor seperate....and mine is not high end). Save some money here, because it will go old on you fast, while traditional camera equipment will last the longest (digital cameras have short lives also). The other benefit of film is that it is presently the most archival, and you don't have to worry about your precious images needing to be transferred over to new and storage media.

 

I would stick with cameras that are the most popular...eg ; Hassy or Mamiya RZ/etc. Every rental store can supply you with any lens you need or accessory, but more importantly as digital backs come down in price you may want one for your camera (in this respect your camera investment doesn't go obsolete). There will be far more available for the common brands most used by pros. In the US and Canada, Hassy/RB/Pentax67 can be had anywhere, but not so with Rollei (far more common in Europe).

 

The Nikon 9000 and Imacon are very very close in performance. If you want convenience by doing it at home, the 9000 will do the job easily, and is used all the time by pros selling their work. Doing a 24x30 print is no problem. With the great exchange rate between US and Canada, it can be had for $1800 US (plus exchange). A lot less then Vistek, Toronto. Frankly these guys need to wake up.

[carter_hopkins]

I am having great look with a Nikon 9000, be sure to get the glass carrier. I am shooting with a Mamiya 645AFD for MF and Nikon F5/F100 & D100/D200, mainly outdoor family portrait. Approximately 80% of our work is B&W film. We are printing with an Epson 4000 and 7800, using ImagePrint with both, actually the Phatte Black system on the 7800. Our results from initial scan on the 9000 to output on the Epsons the quality is very good, pleased with all.

 

Regarding the scanner I have made comparisons between the 9000 and my 3 year old Nikon Super Coolscan 4000ED and the 9000 results are better, and they are pretty damn good on the 4000.

 

For problem B&W negatives with the 9000, I am scanning the film as a positive in RGB mode. This results in a much larger file but the additional information picked up in the scan, especially the shadow areas is worth the increased time and size of the scan.

 

Carter

[carter_hopkins]

I am having great luck with a Nikon 9000, be sure to get the glass carrier. I am shooting with a Mamiya 645AFD for MF and Nikon F5/F100 & D100/D200, mainly outdoor family portraits. Approximately 80% of our work is B&W film. We are printing with an Epson 4000 and 7800, using ImagePrint with both, actually the Phatte Black system on the 7800. Our results from initial scan on the 9000 to output on the Epsons the quality is very good, pleased with all. BTW, alot of our client's are requesting Espon Water Resistant Canvas, which we spray with Premier Art Print Shield, and we are getting great prints. As much as we love B&W, the results from the D200 are exceptional and no problem with 24" prints on the 7800.

 

Regarding the scanner I have made comparisons between the 9000 and my 3 year old Nikon Super Coolscan 4000ED and the 9000 results are better, and they are pretty damn good on the 4000.

 

For problem B&W negatives with the 9000, I am scanning the film as a positive in RGB mode. This results in a much larger file but the additional information picked up in the scan, especially the shadow areas is worth the increased time and size of the scan.

 

Carter

[shawngibson]

Hi thanks everyone. I think it's pretty much going to be a 9000, purchased in the US end of March I think.

 

Regarding the crazy price of the computer, yeah, that's Cdn, and it's 2 server-class dual Opteron systems; hence the crazy cost.

 

Shawn

[rconey]

KEH or other reliable used camera dealer is absolutely the way to go. You can get medium format equipment in flawless condition for half price or better. The "only excellent" condition stuff is an even better bargain.

[Uhooru]

Shawn, I just read somewhere that Pentax is or will be making a digital 645 MF. Wonder how much that costs?? I don't think they were talking about a back either, I think it was built in. Check <a href="http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/news/articles/story_2830.html">this</a>. Thought it might be of interest.