Totally off prints

[agaimages]

Ok, so I've posted this question elsewhere but did not receive the

help I hoped for. Mainly maybe becasue I myself wasn't clear as to

what I wanted to know.

 

Here's the scenario. I have been printing through a lab and was

pretty happy with the results. I started off with color corrected

prints, and was happy, then I went through new monitor, calibration

and getting prints without lab manipulation and was also happy.

Now, last batch of prints are terrible... Dark, flat, muddy and washed

out...

I attached original files - which I did not tamper much with in PS

besides raw conversion, and those exact ones were sent to the lab - in

my other post which can be seen here:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Ga8g&tag=

 

People suggested that my monitor is to bright, hence dark files BUT

would a little darker files yield results that are muddy, washed out

and flat? Would the problem lay somewhere? If so, where? Have I done

something wrong this time (which I cannot pin point) or is it

something that might have gone wrong on the printer's part?

 

Any advice on this subject? Please bare in mind that I'm not the most

technical person and go "easy" on me...

[beauh44]

Most labs like for your files to be in the sRGB color space. If you send them the files in Adobe RGB and they don't convert them (and most don't) they'll come back as you describe - muddy and washed out. It could be lots of things but this is one place to start checking. Good luck!

[scott_eaton]

Most of the retail labs, Walmart, Walgreens, etc., are using an sRGB color space and tend to keep their machines within tolerable calibration. Regardless of operator skills, I know for a fact if I were to send a digital file to any of these labs using Fuji paper in a Frontier my results would be far more similiar than handing them the same frame of film, that much is for sure.

 

The problem with sRGB it tends to have a narrow sweet spot for retail printing, and you have to be more carefull in terms of color saturation because it's real easy to go too far or be too muddy.

 

Easiest way to keep control of this along with your sanity is to keep a couple reference prints and the files used to make them you consider perfect. Periodically have your favorite lab remake those same files, and compare them to the originals for any drift. If the exact same file delivers a significantly different print from the same lab, then you know the lab is doing something wrong, or not following instructions. If the lab delivers a print from that file pretty close to original they made, but it doesn't match your screen, then the problem is with you. Also be sure to request the lab not make any corrections, etc.

 

From a subjective standpoint, the images you've posted seem dark and murky to begin with. I also prefer 'deep and rich' portraiture, but those look dark to me.

[agaimages]

Reek

Thanks!

I appreciate your thoughts and help. I will work on getting better results or rather consistent good results. The problem is that nothing has changes on my part (that I'm aware of, of course, human error is always possible) and this is by far the worse example of printing I ever seen done and I never printed in Wal-Mart or the likes.

[craig_g]

I recently had a problem very similar to that which you are describing. After a few months of sending out smaple shots to various labs, I carefully selected a professional lab to print my work. This lab reproduced my images flawlessly for nearly a year. During this time, I improved my monitor calibration equipment, perforemd countless alterations to my photos, and my prints still came back with vivid colors and detail.

 

However, the good life could not continue forever. My prints began coming back washed out/undersaturated/too bright. After 2 months of working with the lab, their calibration profiles and numerous prints, I still could not obtain a satisfactory print.

 

So, I wised up and eliminated the lab from my processing. I bought an EPSON R1800 after a great deal of research and can now print up to an 13x19 in house. (Several other printers exist to do the same)No more waiting, no more shipping and best of all, if the prints are not exactly how I like, there is only me to blame and I can fix it immediately.

 

I have since been using this printer to prints from several Olympus DSLR cameras and the color reproduction anf sharpness of the images are flawless. You should seriously consider doing the same - it has eliminated the headache from my digital darkroom.

[Tim_Lookingbill]

The image linked below will show you why you need to on

occasion run an uncorrected sRGB test file as suggested. It

shows the print results I get sending sRGB and AdobeRGB files

to my local Noritsu minilab.

 

I used to use Walgreen's and Walmart's Frontiers but their

regional manager kept upgrading their software where this test

file would go from perfectly neutral, evenly distributed density in

sRGB to purplish/maroon with high contrast and blown highlites

and plugged shadow detail.

 

There was no profile that made the image look like that so I

switched to the Noritsu minilab. It had a lighter red orangish

midtone cast as seen in the linked image. I found and

downloaded a profile that closely emulated this look when

temporarily assigning it to the file downloaded off of

DryCreekPhoto.com. I now convert all my files to that profile

before sending it to print and get very decent results.

 

It's not spot on perfect, but close enough for a free profile. If this

Noritsu drifts to a different density characteristic or color cast like

the Frontiers did, I'll have to have a custom profile made for

around $50 or more. Fortunately this Noritsu has kept this lighter

red/orange look for several years now and the free profile still

reasonably works.

 

There are labs that keep their printers perfectly neutral producing

a very evenly distributed tonal grayramp where you can just send

sRGB without having to convert to a custom profile and get

decent screen to print matches. The only way to find them is to

do a test print preferably containing fleshtones which is the

"canary in the coal mine" of test colors.