20D & 580 ex suggestions...?

[matthewkane]

I just recently bought a 580ex. I am shooting a wedding with it for the first time on friday.

I really haven't mastered manual flash yet, so I'm supposing I'm going to go with the E-TTL

II settings and hope it does it's job while shooting manual. I'm just wanting to ask for any

pointers or tips with this combination. Suggestions? Anything you've noticed? Custom

function settings that seem to help out for these two?

[lovcom_photo]

This Friday? Wow...I would strongly recommend you not shoot that wedding, but of course this is the 11th hour and expecting the bride and groom to find an EOS master/professional is out of the question I suppose.

 

Please don't take this wrong...mastering flash for the most important day for most women, in such a short time is not realistic, to be sure.

 

Ok, so this doesn't help you now...so I'll go ahead and try to help you.

 

First, for indoor shots, use the fastest normal to wide angle lens you have...ideally it should be F2.8 or faster. Faster is better.

 

What will help you is that the 20D provides very good noise performance.

 

Ok, for indoor shots in the church, put the camera in MANUAL mode. Set the aperture to widest f-stop without making the depth-of-field too narrow for the given compositions. Then set the 580ex flash to E-TTL, making sure it is NOT in hy-sync. I would imagine you'll be using F5.6 lots. Do you understand what effects depth-of-field? Focal length, aperture F-stop, distance from the subject. It's too late if you don't but lets plow fowards regardless...Set your ISO to 800...1600 may be too noisy...keep it at 800. Back to the flash...do you have a flash diffuser? Do you have experience with bouncing? How high is the ceiling? is it white? Ok, so if you don't have a diffuser, and/or the ceiling is very high, then point the head of the flash up 90 degrees, then pull the white card all the way out. Use a tripod or at least a monopod.

 

Back to the camera, ok it is in manual, now make sure the shutter speed is at least the reciprical of the len's focal length....the shutter speed exposes the back ground...as for the foreground, E-TTL will take care of that.

 

Before the wedding use the settings above and take practice shots of the church...look at the histogram...make sure the exposure is ideal...have a friend/s stand where the B&G will stand....take test shots...look at the skin tones...the histogram....if the back ground is too dark, slow down the shutter speed...test for depth-of-field...can you get away with a wider aperture and get sufficient depth-of-field? Better if you can....how many bride's maids? will your focal lenght accomoodate the width of the wedding party? Need to switch lenses?

 

With E-TTL DO NOT lock-focus-recompose....compose the shot in the viewfinder, manually choose the best/appropriate focus point and place it on someone's face...E-TTL will automatically expose for the foreground/subject, your shutter speed will have to be set by you manually to expose for the back ground....no need to place the flash in manual...let E-TTL take care of that.

 

Write down the settings that work so when it is show time go with those settings. Shoot RAW...use automatic white-balance....dial it in later during post processing.

 

Outside change the camera to Av mode, keep the flash set to E-TTL, but change the mode to hy-sync...set your aperture to give you the appropriate depth-of-field...don't forget to change your ISO to 100 or 200 light depending.

 

Go with the factory default custom settings....at this late stage no time to get fancy...you need to practice TONS....get to the church several hours before the wedding, and take lots of shots, can you take Friday off early from work to take practice shots...the image in the LCD is helpful but pay attention much more to the histogram readings.

 

If there is any way to convince the B&G to find a pro or more experienced flash shooter, that would be the best for them and for you...I realize Friday is just one day away....oh man, do you realize how steep this up-hill is going to be for you?

 

I wish you all the best, I really do...it is very late to master flash...hope I've been some help. However my suggestions here are still not enough...so many things to understand, and consider.

 

Go to the wedding forum and do searches. Whatever you do, don't take any $$ from your friends.

 

In all sincerity, this wedding job is way too big for you...not your fault....it's just that it is much more complicated then it seems...the pressure to get the shots, dealing with lighting, the workings of the flash, etc, etc, etc. Do you realize this?

 

Wishing you all the luck.

[terry_mcconnell]

Took me about a month of regular flash shooting to get used to the combo. Setting in manual and using spot metering helps me when using autofocus ... however, you still have to think about shutter speed and what the background exposure's going to look like. Remember also that when you are shooting something, the first thing in the path from the lens to the subject (which may not BE the subject) will catch the most intensity from the flash. That is to say: Shoot with the top of a chair in the foreground bottom 1/16th of the frame, you can bet the chair will be nice & visible while the background is completely dark.

 

http://wut.live-wire.org/photos/2006/february03/pic/20060203-TM098-3732.jpg

 

Here's an example where background exposure is critical:

 

http://wut.live-wire.org/photos/2005/october28/pic/20051028-T061-0776.jpg

 

Careful balance between what's close and what's far away can really make or break flash shots.

 

If you get fancy: do it when everything is in patient mode (nothing spontaneous and fancy) ... and as others have said: check histograms. LCD is really not useful for contrast and brightness determinations. You cannot see blowouts and badly exposed backgrounds without the histogram.

 

HTH.

[yakim_peled1]

>> This Friday? Wow...I would strongly recommend you not shoot that wedding, but of course this is the 11th hour and expecting the bride and groom to find an EOS master/professional is out of the question I suppose.

 

>> Please don't take this wrong...mastering flash for the most important day for most women, in such a short time is not realistic, to be sure.

 

I'd end the post here, unless of course, you are not getting paid for this

 

 

Happy shooting,

Yakim.

[jim_larson1]

Dan is correct in all his points.

 

Except one: ETTL is focus point biased, and focus recompose is dangerous. ETTL-II is NOT focus point biased. Focus recompose is ok.

 

BUT. . there are still several important points to remember. Rather than repeat 6 paragraphs worth of information on ETTL-II, read this thread: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00GQzL&tag=

[davebell]

I tested out focus lock / recompose on my 350D/580ex and its fine, since ETTL-II uses evaluative flash metering (or average using CF 8 I think)and doesn't have a focus point bias - to the best of my still limited knowledge! Bottom line, I dialled in approx +1 FEC and it was all good, regardless if I did the focus/recompose dance or not. Another point I discovered, as confirmed in the manual, is that one must use the centre focus point if you are doing a FEL. Good luck! I am shooting a civil wedding on Saturday and have convinced the bride to take whatever she gets, even if it is all a pile of rubbish - no promises on quality! If they don't want to pay for a pro, then they should be happy with whatever their kind and generous guests can offer.

 

Dave

[lovcom_photo]

Jim, about lock-focus-recompose and E-TTL2...point well taken, and I stand corrected....however, in a dark church with perhaps a narrow depth-of-field, I stand by what I wrote....don't lock-focus-recompose....bad form, bad habit unless you're working with a big fat DOF, doing a landscape at F11, etc. The 20D has multi-focus points for a reason ;-) Doing the recompose "arc movement" can introduce focusing errors...even as it may not interfere with E-TTL2 exposing.

 

I wonder if maybe I should've suggested to the original poster to just put the camera in P mode and fire away...can be any worse then doing otherwise I suppose.

[matthewkane]

Thanks for the advice Dan... but no need to get that worried. I am a wedding shooter. I

have done quite a few in the last few years actually. I'm not a novice. I just hadn't used the

580ex for a wedding with the 20D yet. I am new to the 580ex, not flash in general, lol.

Everyones information is appreciated. When should I set the metering to evaluative with

this flash? Averaging?

[jim_larson1]

Dan - I agree. :) Do not focus recompose if your DOF is only a few inches.

[adamlozo]

I find that my 20D/580ex combination underexposes more than it correctly exposes. I've been getting much more consistent results when I dial in exposure compensation. I've still got a long way to go as the camera metering still throws off the exposure. No one mentioned the obvious yet...shoot raw!

[lovcom_photo]

Adam, about RAW....see the first response in this thread ;-)

[picturesque]

Do a search. Lots has been written about this combo.

 

Here are my tips.

 

1. Most people find you need to introduce a permanent plus compensation to flash exposure. I use +2/3 as "home base" with this combo.

 

2. You have to ride the compensation dial a lot to compensate for subject lightness/darkness, backlighting and anything else the camera/flash reacts to. White shirts or any white (+1 1/3, or +1 2/3) will cause underexposure more than black will cause overexposure. Sometimes you stack the compensations up--backlighting plus white = +2 2/3 (this isn't meant to be specific--it will depend).

 

3. Flash back in mirrors and other specular highlights will cause the flash to almost shut down completely.

 

4. Set up your 580EX so that the dial controls compensation directly. Much faster.

 

5. I use evaluative flash mode outdoors for fill (custom function 14) and averaging for indoors where the flash is the main source of illumination. Read about auto fill flash reduction in the photonotes.org article. Which you use is up to you and how they work for you.

 

6. Objects at the edges of the frame affect flash exposure on the 20D. A white shirt on the edge of the frame will cause underexposure.

 

7. I diasgree about recommendations for specific camera modes or focusing modes. Use what you are used to. I don't believe flash exposure is so linked to focus point that it makes a big difference. If you use AV with flash, NEVAC enters the picture. Do a search on that.

 

8. Since ETTL is an automatic method, there will be times where it will do something completely whacky that you can't figure out. One just deals with it. Hopefully you can re-shoot the image.

 

9. If bouncing or using a power hunger modifier like the LS, you'd best get an external pack for fast recycling. Reception events can happen fast. Otherwise, high capcaity NiMH batteries are the ticket.

[lovcom_photo]

I think the spelling is NEVEC...I just found the artical Nadine...great info, thanks!

[doug_landrum]

Echo - shoot RAW, save a backup of the RAW before you manipulate. Use Canon's Digital Photo Professional or Adobe RAW converter in Photoshop CS2 / Bridge to convert to anything other than RAW. Learn how to adjust RAW images in the program that you use.

 

Breath deep and work slowly if you can. On the stock shots that a pro grabs, IF YOU CAN, pose the B&G for a shot before they go live - like the cake cutting, first dance, rings on the fingers, a "first" kiss - no tongue - sweet kiss.

 

Check the histogram on each lighting change. Good luck.

[conraderb]

Matthew - in teh future, remember to use new equipment first in the 'non-critical' situations!

 

After I got my new canon gear, I gave away a few quick portrait shoots for free and try it all out.

 

You look like a pro. Pros don't learn their gear at a wedding!