If you were on the design team for the M, what would you change or fix?

[rayn]

I am not asking this question to start a flame war. I'm asking because I will be buying my first Leica M soon, and want to get an idea of the things that might bug me after I get it (things like viewfinder flare, etc). I've read through this website, examined photos and specs, and played with an M6 in a store. But it seems like the little things you don't like about a camera don't become apparent until it is used in the field.

 

<p>

 

So please tell me, do you have any pet-peeves about your Leica M system? What would you change or fix if you could? I'll be getting a black Leica M7 0.72 with a 35/2 Aspheric Lens. My intention is to use it for unobtrusive hand held low light stuff, without flash. I use larger formats for landscapes and the like (tripod work).

 

<p>

 

Any other advice for a newbie Leica user is welcome!

[richardvanle]

You already know what you're going to buy. Buy it and ignore all

the griping and belly-aching on this site. It will corrupt you and

pollute your mind. Take your camera and use it and then you'll be

able to answer this question yourself.

[leonid]

Wouldn't it make sense to simply rent the camera first , that way you

will know first hand . If anything , getting used to film loading or

framing should be your major problem ( at first ). Some people adapt

quickly , while others are never able to . It all depends on you

really .

[sl]

Ray. Please consider that this list, just like most lists, are

dominated by a vocal minority and sometimes they give good advice. I

have six Leica Ms and have none of the complaints that you here about

here. Remember that there is NO nirvana with ANY camera including the

M6. Learn to use it for its strengths and its weaknesses will seem to

be very minor. Just enjoy the wonderful pictures it takes.

[giles_poilu]

Ray, have you looked in the archives - there was a similar thread to

this quite some time ago that had a lot of interesting info. but I

can't find it!

 

<p>

 

Along with the "which 35mm lens is the best" this is in the top five

FAQ's - if you are coming from a typical SLR background the M is a

real different kettle of fish and as said above rather than jumping

in at the deep end it may be a good idea to trial before you buy.

 

<p>

 

Personally speaking the M7 is not for me but I do believe it is a

fantastic camera that manages to blend just enough modern (sort of)

features in the traditional M body without comprimising it's near

perfect handling, construction and feel.

 

<p>

 

But to return to your original question - simply remaking the M4

would create a 99.99% perfect Leica for me (However, this would not

make financial sense and I'm in the minority here).

 

<p>

 

We all want to see Leica survive and I believe the M7 will strengthen

their position.

[james_.1]

Hrmn, maybe faster and slower shutter speeds, that's it. Maybe 4

sec. and up to 1/2000?

[roger_michel]

ideal m -- that's easy!! same dimensions and specs as the CLE (ok,

throw in AE lock while were dreamin'). same build quality as the

m7. higher mag viewfinder. oh -- and stick a 35mm asph 'cron on

front -- but with a COLLASPIBLE shade for further compactness. then

you'd have a world beater.

[dzeanah]

Leica people are weird.

 

<p>

 

Check out the LUG and you'lll see all kinds of complaints about the smallest things -- I remember a thread a couple of years back

by a guy who was so obsessed with the distracting nature of the "red dot" that he went to the effort to fill it in with black paint, while

still leaving the logo part visible in silver. Weird.

 

<p>

 

Everyone has a few things they'd like to see work a little differently. I'd like to have a case for the camera that wouldn't slow down

film reloads. I'd like a tripod screw that wasn't so far off to the side. I wish they weren't so damn expensive. I wish there weren't so

many options for lenses so I'd know what to buy in each focal length (go to Stephen Gandy's web site and read up on all the

different versions of the 50 Summicron that have been produced). I wish I didn't feel compelled to apply electrical tape to a nearly

new camera in order to protect some of its value should I decide to sell it. (see? Weird). I wish there was a perfect camera bag.

 

<p>

 

Overall, in my opinion, there's no better 35mm camera if you're the kind of guy who shoots like me. I don't do macro, I don't do

wildlife, I'm not big into polarizers and other filters, I like to exercise my mind while I exercise my shutter, I like to travel with portable

equipment, I occasionally beat the hell out of my gear when I'm in a hurry and want a camera that can take the punishment. If I'm

going to go to the effort to carry and set up a tripod then I'm going to expose a larger piece of film than 35mm.

 

<p>

 

Shoot with it and enjoy it. Nothing's perfect. But the M-series is as close as we're likely to see in 35mm cameras. ;)

[vic_.]

If you look at other major camera brands (Nikon being my refernce

point), they have segmented their target customers (they can afford

to sinec they have a huge volume), and consequently offer: fully

manual cameras through fully automatic, from cheap to high end

professional quality. Similarly with their lenses. Some of the

cheap stuff is pure crap, but there is a market for such stuff, and

the margins are probably higher on junky cameras (probably outsourced

to Malaysia).

 

<p>

 

With Leica the critics expect too much from ONE camera. One camera's

features cannot please everyone. In my view the M6 and the M7 are

completely different cameras and cater to users who have completely

diffrent philosophies. You can't fit everyone into a Size 4 Chanel

suit.

 

<p>

 

Personally, I would not buy the M7 because I like the fully manual

capability of the M6. The thing with the M7 is that my wife could

use the camera (which is why I bought a Nikon FE years ago, instead

of the FM). The M6 is solely my camera, a pity. My wife now uses a

Canon digital S110.

 

<p>

 

I think the M7 expands Leica's market reach, and is a breakthrough

development for the brand. However, diehard Leica luddites such as

myself would not go for it as a *primary* camera, unless they fall

for The Thoughts of Chairman Puts.

 

<p>

 

Why did you choose the M7? that is the question to ask yourself.

[john_collier5]

Simple! I would eliminate the consumer. Noisy, hard to keep

happy and always moaning about something. The darn critters

blame the camera every time the dim bulb behind viewfinder

cannot figure things out.

[leonid]

Oops , I thought you were talking about the m6 . By the way ,Vikram

brings up a good point , why do you want an m7 ( as opposed to an

m6 ,m4,m3,m2,m5 ) ?

[michael_kastner]

Hey Ray!

<p>Actually, I think this is a good question (many questions here have

been asked over and over again but somehow yours is somewhat original.

At least for an M  :)

<p>These are all questions I asked myself and answered myself 

(with the help of everybody here, and I being a perfectionist, now

wouldn't change any of my choices tomorrow. I thus have no peeves.

<p>To change or fix could be:

<p>(a)  M6 or M7: 0.72 or 0.85 or 0.58...

<br>(b)  ... (a) depending of course on the lens(es)

wanted/needed,

<br>©  depending of course on (a), a 1.25x mag

<br>(d)  M6 or M7 vs everything earlier (except likely M5)

<br>(e)  M6 classic vs M6TTL

<br>(f)  any M6 vs M7

<br>(g)  black or chrome

<p>That's all I can think of today. Tomorrow means more.

<p>Just do it!

[jay_.]

I agree with the idea of renting a Leica before you buy it. It will

likely be some time before you can rent an M7, though. But the M6TTL

is not that much different that you could extrapolate as to whether

the M7 is more or less suitable to you. You could always buy a used

M6, use it, then either sell it (for what you paid) or keep it as a

backup to the M7.

[michael_kastner]

<b>John!</b> I just don't understand anything you said above here

(although I have always understood everything (I think) and

appreciated everything you have ever written here and elsewhere)...

but me too being a northern Albertan, may I ask you -- please -- to

enlarge here???

[mikep1]

Well, of course there's that pesky loading method and the fact that

you have to focus ALL BY YOURSELF. That stupid off-center tripod

socket is pretty dumb and the archaic non-matrix metering is, well,

where's my buggy whip? You have to MANUALLY WIND the dang film and

the dinosaur-era cloth focal plane shutter only goes to 1000/sec.

 

<p>

 

Then there's the rangefinder that doesn't view through the lens and

the need for accessory finders for various wide-angles and the fact

that it's nearly useless for REAL telephoto.

 

<p>

 

Hopefully they'll correct all these shortcomings one of these days! ;)

[michael_darnton1]

I think the thing that might be the worst irritation could be that

you discover after you've spent all that money that you're an SLR

person, not an RF person. If that happens, then all the little gripes

won't matter, because you'll find yourself never using the camera at

all. Do you have enough RF experience to know what you're getting

into? Because it's not just a bigger P&S--the whole way you approach

seeing pictures is different.

[ralph_barker]

Welcome (soon) to the world of the M, Ray. I've only had my M6 TTL

(also a 0.72) for about a year, but I've been taking photographs for

about 40 years, and I'm very pleased with the M. It's a new way of

seeing compared to other formats. What I've found in using it couldn't

be called pet peeves, but rather learning or self-training

experiences. (I still use my Nikons, and medium- and large-format

cameras where their features are more appropriate to the task.)

 

<p>

 

I'm occasionally bitten by rangefinder flair, but found raising my eye

position a touch usually solves most of that - enough, at least, to

focus on what I want. I also find that I'm constantly grabbing the

camera in such a was as to leave finger prints on the front viewfinder

window. Wearing a single white cotton glove might solve that, but I'm

too chubby and too old to do the Michael Jackson thing.

 

<p>

 

I also use the M in the studio on occasion, mixing it with other

cameras. Sometimes, the sync socket didn't work, and I thought it was

the connector being too sensitive to sizing of the connector on the

cord. Turns out, the M sync circuit is polarity sensitive, and

reversing the household-type connector in the other cord socket

instantly solved the problem.

 

<p>

 

Likely, your biggest decision will be picking a spot to stick the

baseplate when changing film in the field. Shirt pocket? Pants pocket?

Try to resist the temptation of holding it in your mouth, however.

Toothmarks on the baseplate will reduce the resale value. ;-)

 

<p>

 

As your target is low-light work, I assume you've made the 'Lux/'Cron

decision based on cost/benefit. The 0.72 choice is good for your first

M, I think, as it gives you flexibility. My second body will likely be

a 0.85, however, for greater convenience with the longer lenses. I

opted for the 24mm Elmarit, rather than one of the 28mm lenses, so the

28mm frame in the 0.72 is an unused feature for me, but that's OK.

Your choice of the M7 also makes sense, if you like the <i>option</i>

of using aperture-based AE. That's a personal style choice.

 

<p>

 

The only thing about the M that even approaches a pet peeve for me is

the flash sync speed. 1/50 is very limiting for fill flash, but can be

overcome to a degree with on-flash compensation controls.

[eliot]

I like the M and have no major complaints. If I had to choose one

thing it would be [as above] the slow sync speed that is non-

conducive to fill flash for backlit situations. This is the only

kind of flash I ever do, and usually requires a higher sync speed

than 1/50 sec to properly expose the background. The M7 partially

addresses this (after a fashion) by providing HSS (1/250-1/1000) with

a special Metz flash unit. But the basic sync speed otherwise

remains at 1/50 sec.

[steve_b.2]

My main pet peeve with the entire Leica system is the $40 plastic

lens cap, after you've lost one. I should have known!

[fred4]

I would get rid of the whiny customers.

[dennis_couvillion]

Built-in flash and automatic rewind.

[ray_moth]

I was tempted to suggest something dumb, like mirror and aperture pre-

fire lock-up and a stop-down lever for DoF preview but, on second

thoughts, I won't suggest anything so silly.

 

<p>

 

However, I would vote for the base-plate (or motor or RapidWinder) to

be held captive with the body while changing the film. That way,

you'd only need two hands. Another improvement could be built-in

switchable eyepieces (.58-.72-.85) so you wouldn't have to buy

multiple bodies just to get different viewfinder magnifications.

You'd still want multiple bodies, though!

[zoeica images]

Simple. Bring back the M3 or M2 as a lower priced Leica M. No meter,

3 frames only, and you get a self-timer! They could sell for $1000 or

less.

[david_killick]

I really think the built-in meter (M5,6,7,CL) does help when shooting

fast in varying light conditions. Otherwise I think the ergonomics,

focusing, and viewfinder on all Ms are excellent, and the optics -

even the old ones -- are superb.

[andy_piper2]

I don't know that I have many peeves - or I'd be using something else.

 

<p>

 

IMHO one of the BEST features of the M4x/5/6/7 is the loading, once you

get used to it (no joke!). It is now easier for me to load than any

other 35mm except those with motorized auto-loading. No futzing with a

pull-up rewind knob or little slots in the take-up spool, and the

finished cassette just drops out into your hand. But as a newbie you

will need to overcome the temptation to 'help' Leica's autoload system

by opening the back to align the film with the sprockets, or bend the

film tip, or other useless stuff. Check the http://nemeng.com/leica/

page for the same instructions that set me on the right path.

 

<p>

 

Features I'd like to see - 1.0x viewfinder to shoot with both eyes open

with the 50/75/90/135 lenses - faster sync speed (which the M7

delivers, sort of) - more reliable motor (not likely, given Leica

electronic aptitude and the basic mechnical design of the M) - that's

about it. I personally dislike the return of the M3-style guard ring

around the lens-release button - fortunately my M4-2/Ps don't have it,

and I've never accidently unmounted a lens.

 

<p>

 

It's not a perfect camera in some cosmic sense, but it's darn near

perfect for the things it does best - "unobtrusive handheld low [or

even bright] light stuff, without flash".