Giving customers pictures on CD

[neil l]

I am interested as we get further and further into the digital age as

to how many people now give a CD containing all the images to the

customer?<p>

 

I know that historically this was unheard of, a taboo subject even,

but times they are a changing and the public are more aware and

demand more. I now get a lot of enquiries for this but am yet to

agree. <p>

 

I am currently pondering changing album supplier so may take the

opportunity to revamp my packages and am wondering if now is the time

to inlcude a cd of jpegs and charge accordingly. For me anyway

reprint income is minimal and I believe a customer would still come

to me anyway if they wanted a larger print especially if I limited

the res on the cd images. <p>

 

Interested in your thoughts

[james_osborne]

I have struggled with this one, and have finally come up with a solution that works (for my portrait business).

 

I take photographs that become images, some have virtually no post processsing, others become 'digital art', for me the client is buying the image not the paper print.

 

My pricing has now moved away from 'nickel and diming' clients for printing the same image at different sizes. Why should an 8x10 be $30 and a 10x12 be $40? Are we in the business of selling square inches of paper? I also don't work on any reprint business. My experience in portraits (as opposed to Weddings) is that reprints are uncommon, and that the majority of sales are immediate.

 

My price list works like this (am in the UK so am using example $dollar prices for convenience):

 

I charge a resonable sitting fee (say $150), which covers my upfront costs. I then price my images (not the RAW files, but the final images) at a set price, eg $50 per image. For this the client gets the full-res, print ready .tif file on CD, along with a full non-commercial license to use and print the image in perpetuity (but without alteration). I usually sell 15 to 20 images per session.

 

I then offer, virtually at cost, pro-lab printing and framing. I explain why this is the best route (quality etc) and why it is more expensive than using a Kodak Kiosk in a supermarket. I usually sell at least half the images sold printed and framed. The client then can use the images as they wish, without being 'held hostage' to me for every additonal 4x6 or wallet photo. They can also (and do) come back and ask me to pro print/frame any image that they own the rights to at a very reasonable price.

 

If I am asked how much I charge for an 8x10 is I tell them "about $3, however my image printed on 8x10 will cost you $53".

 

Jim

[flirtynfun]

I personally do NOT give the customer a CD with anything except for contact sheets to view their images. This allows me to control the output of the final printed images.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

This question comes up pretty frequently and I'm sure if you do a search that you'll find several threads. Personally I offer the negatives & hi-res files as an ale carte option and include them in my top of the line package. If you want to try to maximize reprints, you can give the B/G the files one year after the wedding. Comparing portrait sessions to weddings is an apple/oranges discussion.

[rdkirk]

NL, I believe any photographer who gives or promises to give ALL exposures taken at a wedding or for a portrait is [something the photonet editor won't let me express].

 

OTOH, as a portrait photographer, I do sell a JPEG of the FINISHED image as part of a package that includes the "full monty" of prints. In other words, the client gets the digital image only in a package with as many prints as I could have expected him to purchase otherwise, and he gets only the finished image, certainly not every exposure I took. What could possibly be the gain of giving them a shot of Aunt Mame with her eyes half closed, looking like a sot?

 

A fundamental purpose here is "what are you selling?" and then "what does the client think she's getting?" My experience and the anecdotal reports I get from past brides and other photographers suggests that even though brides think they want the full coverage, they usually end up not doing much with it...they wind up NOT having the nice album or slideshow or enlargements on the wall. It's like someone buying a room full of auto parts when they really wanted a car to drive, but thought that buying the parts and assembling it themselves would be cheaper. They wind up having spent the money and still don't have a car, because assembling a car isn't simple.

 

There is certainly today a demand and a market for digital image products because more and more people are living in a world of images that exist only digitally. We have to recognize that as a fact. But speaking as a photographer, we should be selling them finished products, not raw materials.

 

I can easily see selling finished slide shows on CD, but providing the entire take? No way.

 

James, it doesn't appear that you're charging nearly enough. How can you offer framing with little or no addition in cost? Quality framing in my area costs more than the printing. Even if I were to do the framing myself, once I count the cost of my time, it's still more than the print itself.

[olaf_siebert___zagreb__cro]

From this year on I started to sell cd-rom's which contains the images in the size as they are in the book. This means that the client can print small print where ever they want, but for bigger prints they still need me.

 

Price of cd-rom is somewhere at 10% of total weddingfee. Keep in mind that overhere (Croatia) it is quite common to give neg's / hi-res files for free.

[fotografz]

All our clients get the corrected hi-res tiff images on a set of Gold, archival DVDs, and we

downsize a full set to more manageable, smaller jpgs and burn them to a Gold CD-ROM.

 

If you correct the files as s-RGB color space and have a calibrated monitor, all the images

can be printed by most any decent lab on automated machines with no loss of quality. In

fact, my local lab has made a profile for our images and most of my clients go to them for

re-prints. It's a good partnership IMO. I shoot and edit. They print. I have more time to

shoot and edit, and they take good care of my clients by fussing over the quality.

 

Files on a DVD or CD-ROM are locked. People can screw around with them on their

computer, but they can't save them back to the master DVD or CD-ROMs.

 

The package price takes into account that they may get re-prints elsewhere. Most clients

come back to get their album from us, even if they only bought the basic "Images Only"

package.

[rich_taylor____mequon__wi]

I'm currently in the process of making decisions about how I want to handle this very issue, so this is a timely thread. I've been researching many of the plans and packages that are out there and I'm leaning toward a pretty simple approach. My personal preference is to keep things uncomplicated and, moreover, I believe that clients (especially brides) want things to be uncomplicated, as well.

 

I'm considering providing the client with a low-res CD, as part of the deal, that will allow them to print images up to 4x6. I will, of course, edit those images and remove the obvious clunkers (blinks, half-closed eyes, etc.). I won't correct in any other way. I don't want to compete for the 4x6 business with the corner store's 29-cent machine print operation. Let them make all the 4x6's they want. I'm not going to make any significant money with 4x6 orders, and providing the CD for no cost is a goodwill gesture that can only serve me in a positive way. I'll make a better profit from the larger size reprints, and/or the album(s).

 

I haven't made a final decision yet, but this is the direction I'm headed. Any comments on this approach? I'm open.

[marv_stasak___southfield__]

Marc,

 

How are you locking the CD/DVD to prevent copying or transfer?

[mike_hodson]

One thing I wonder about is this....when you give a client a CD of low rez images, what's to stop them from trying to get/make bigger prints?

 

An 1800 x 1200 (4x6 @ 300 PPI) image can easily be interpolated to print at 8x10...alghough not at the same quality. Or is "low Rez" something much smaller, 432 x 238 (4x6 @ 72 PPI) for example?

 

Maybe, the don't mind (or notice) the quality difference and are happy...getting enlargements for cheaper without the photographer.

 

Or Maybe they make big prints on their own...and are unhappy with the shots and think that your images are crap...which would be a false assumption because you only gave them low rez files.

 

So what qualifies as a "Low Rez" file?

[james_osborne]

Kirk,

 

Sorry if my post wan't clear. When I offer print and framing 'at cost' I don't mean 'at no additional cost'. The framing will often cost me around ﾣ60 or $120 per print, however I do not see the value in substantially marking this up to the customer.

 

Jim

[nicola inglis]

The thing that has stopped me going the 'low res CD' route is the time it takes to convert them from big to little or does everyone else know of a really quick, easy way?

[lb-]

"I believe any photographer who gives or promises to give ALL exposures taken at a wedding or for a portrait is [something the photonet editor won't let me express]. "

 

well I'm curious what that explitive is as it applies to me!

 

very often we just hand the couple a plastic bag with 10-15 rolls of undeveloped film at the end of the night and wish them a happy life. I do suggest they go to a good lab and not walmart.

 

for digital weddings it's all the finished images on CD.

 

Just added the option of online gallery with print ordering (digilabs) and my first test couple is ordering prints from the gallery despite the fact that they have all the full res images on disc. go figure.

 

Lots of different ways of doing business Kirk.

 

cheers

[fotografz]

Nothing can stop them Marv. They own the DVDs with the express intent of letting them

make prints at will. But why would they want to copy them except to give a set to their

parents or make a back-up copy? All DVDs are burned as "read only", so they can't alter

the original images and save them back to the DVD I gave them. They can save the shots

to a new file, and burn them to a new DVD.

 

I have one client that is altering the images I gave her, but she is one of the best

PhotoShop retouchers on the planet.

[cjogo]

Our "packages" are such that the client --receives uncorrected JPEGs---If they wish a quality PS corrected to my abilites...they must pay for each image. If they are happy with the prints , they may enlarge from our uncorrected files, (direct EOS jpegs) thats their choice. Most return for the RAW converted (manipulated) large jpeg....

[khaisy]

I Just Did my first Digital wedding but the reprints order has gone down in the past 4 years for me and it was not worth the hassle for me so i started including the negatives with the packages, I did as Marc did I explained about the printing problem and i had them do reprint at my lab.I will fix the photos and give them the CD i have no problem with that.

[rdkirk]

The expression was one that meant "hasn't fully calculated the potentially adverse long-term economic and legal effects of the practice upon himself and the profession." I'm not sure why the photo.net filters won't allow it.

[think27]

The filter doesn't allow words that can be used to hurl insults at others. If the word is there it is because it was being used to frequently to attack other members by one or more people.

[lb-]

"hasn't fully calculated the potentially adverse long-term economic and legal effects of the

practice upon himself and the profession.""

 

gosh, I hate the idea that it's me who's bringing economic and legal ruin down on the

whole entire global industry.

 

so kirk, what would you do in my situation?

[blueworldstudios]

What's the banned word for "stuck in the dark ages with no ability to adapt an arcane

business model to a digital word and move profit to a unique personal talent that can't be

easily reproduced as a commodity"?

[matthewkane]

Lucas when you hand over 10-15 rolls of undeveloped film they are getting the blinks, the

underexposures, the overexposures, etc. Some photographers want the creative control to

only release their BEST to clients. I would never let a cd of unprocessed digital files go out

my door, nor would I let 10 rolls of undeveloped film. To each his own though. Whatever

works for you may not work for others and vice versa.

[lb-]

"Whatever works for you may not work for others and vice versa."

 

good attitude!

 

And my market is not yours etc. There is a strong tendency on this

board to assume that one's experience in their own market somehow applies to everyone

elses. I would never presume to tell someone shooting suburban weddings in the

midwest in the US how to run their business and I find it arrogant that someone with no

understanding of the particular challenges in MY market think it appropriate to find fault.

 

I'm not worried about clients seeing every frame, I know what I'm doing

and take great care in my shooting. I'm not a "machine gun" shooter. I don't give out

unprocessed digital captures.

 

I also work in a place where film can't be developed, prints can't be made and I never get

to see the clients again after the wedding. they genreally leave the country a few days

after the wedding.

 

regardless, my clients are happy which means I'm happy.

[matthewkane]

Well that's all that matters.

[stephen_dowdy]

We make most of our reorder money on 4x6 prints. It seems if we gave away a low res file we would definitely loose money.

 

Before I would consider giving away files, I would look at ways to increase my reprint sales. It is true that until a few years ago our reprint sales went down...people were just scanning the images from the proofs. Now that we proof on line and/or via a proof magazine that doesn't seem to be an issue.

 

Our average reprint order is ~$70 and we get ~2,5 orders a day form our on line site.

 

It seems that lately all of our brides are asking if they can get a CD with their package.

 

So what are the reasons to give or not to give?