50mm Dual Range/Rigid - The Ultimate 50mm?

[john_ramos]

I posted this question at the Leica site and didn't quite get full info on this lense. I just bought an M7 with a 35mm f2. I love it and I want to expand to a 50mm. I bumped into an article by Seth Rosner where he claims the 50mm DR 11318/11118 - was the best ever. He quotes E. Puts "the 11819 50mm does't match the resolution of the DR". Rosner goes on to say that "the DR's advantage on the field over the 11817 and 11819 may be attributed to better correction of field curvature when stopped down, in addition being able to focussed to "19. This was a "7-glass" lense compare to the "6-glass" we now have. Do any of you have any hands-on experience with both of these lenses that you coul share with me. It will really help me - your imput will really be appreciated. Thank you.

 

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John Ramos

[gl5]

I don't think this lens works with the M7 or M6TTL.

[andrew n.bra hrefhttp]

See Stepehn Gandy's detailed write up on the 50 DR at:<P>

<A

HREF="http://www.cameraquest.com/m50dr.htm">cameraquest.

com/m50dr.htm</A>

[chris_chen4]

Of course the DR works on the M7, just like it does on the

M6--you just may not be able to mount the close-focus "goggles"

on account of the TTL & M7's extra height.

[john_ramos]

I was told by someone at a Leica shop that it is possible to use it

without the (close-focus attachment). I don't know if you have

notice this or not - and this is just an opinion. But in looking at

the work of HCB the resolution of his images from the 40's to the

60's changed, I'm sure this had something to do with a variety of

things, camera, film lense. I've read he preffered the 50mm, and the

only reason why I mentioned this is in exploring my question, was

that 50 really the one or are we better off with what we have?

John Ramos

[zoeica images]

The DR 50 Summicron is one of the best, if not the best 50mm

Summicron. I normally use the 11817 on my M6TTL, but on my M3 I use

the DR. I prefer sharpness over contrast and the old Leitz lenses

were lower contrast with excellent sharpness. 16x20's look amazing.

[feli]

I use a DR with my M2 and M6TTL. Make sure the lens is set

to infinity or you will have problems mounting it. You can use the

eyes on the TTL, if you remove the little pin from the back of

them. As far as image quality goes, I am constantly impressed

by this lens. It is tac sharp, blow ups to 16x20 show amazing

detail. Although it is very sharp, it does not have the hardness to

it that the newest Summicron has., which is too "harsh" for my

taste. Bokeh is gorgeous, not just a perfect smear. The transition

from sharp to out of focus is smooth as silk. The DR has a touch

less contrast than the new Summicron, but I prefer that. Maybe it

could be called that Leica glow. Flare suppresion is excellent.

Lightsources aren't clinically clean and have character. Either

way a DR and a roll of Plus-X is a combination that is hard to

beat. This lens has a great fingerprint. The fit and finish of the

DR is simply amazing. The first time you pick one up, you will

know what I mean. I read somewhere that if Leica had to make

this lens today it would cost a bloody forture. The close-up

mechanisim alone is a brilliant piece of engineering. Overall this

is my favorite 50. I also use a Elmar 50/3.5, Summar and

Summitar. If I had to pick one, it would be the DR.

 

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Cheers,

 

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feli

[andrew1]

My DR is really just the best lens I've ever owned for 35mm

format. I think all Leica users should find one and give it a ride.

And mine DOES work with my new M6, even goggled for the

close-up range.

[emile_de_leon9]

If you like pics with amazing resolution and character in color or

B+W, this lens (DR) is it. Wonderful!!!

[budc]

For many years I used Nikon F's with a variety of AI-S lenses.

During that same period my wife used my M3 with a Rigid Summicron.

Both of us used Kodachrome and the results were always projected

rather than made into prints. Invariably, the results from the

Summicron were preferred by anyone who viewed the results from the

two camera systems. I still have the M3/Rigid and the Nikon gear has

long since been replaced by Leicaflexes.

 

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My most used combo now is the SL/2 with 60 Macro Elmarit but the last

things I'd ever sell are the M3/Rigid Summicron.

[jerry_pfile1]

John,

 

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Forty-two years ago the 50 DR was the first Leitz lens I ever

purchased.

 

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It is the last lens I would ever sell. Handle and shoot with one and

you will understand what I and the previous posters mean. Especially

with transparency film.

 

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Best,

 

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Jerry

[mikep]

if your gonna do b&w, get the dr, if color get a later summicron.

much has been written about these lenses, look at the lhsa site for

about 5-6 articles from erwin puts and keith posner (?) you wont

regret it. i love my dr and wouldnt trade it for anything.

sample of dual range on my m2, tri-x rated 100, medium yellow filter.

 

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http://members.aol.com/thearea19/liberty.jpg

 

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mike

[richie chishty]

The current 50 Summicron is also an outstanding lens!

:-)............................

[andrew_schank]

I had the 50DR, and it is an excellent lens for sure, but I didn't

find it to be as good as the current 50, especially wide open. It

flares easier as well, not having the benefits of multicaoating.

 

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I find it interesting that certain lenses attain such cult status

basically based on something written somewhere by someone I never

heard of. The DR 50 is also very heavy, and prone to fogging like all

of the older chrome lenses. Mine actually eventually had the

internal coatings fail and was basically beyond economical repair.

 

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So in answer to your question, I shot with both extensively and

prefer the current 50 based on my results. If I had to chose between

the two, I'd pick the current 50. By the way, the DR feature was

more of an issue back then when the regular 50 only focuses to about

40 inches. The current 50 focuses to .7 meters, about 24 inches,

without fooling with goggles and stage two focusing cams, etc.

[david_kelly1]

The 7-element rigid and the DR are the same formula, so the heavier DR

has no advantage other than close-focus. HCB used neither.

Evidentally he made the switch from a Zeiss Sonnar to the collapsible

Summicron in 1953 and used it on a succession of bodies, including the

M6, for the rest of his career.......................

[roberto_watson_garc_a]

<img src="http://www.photo.net/photodb/image-display?

photo_id=374730&size=md">

 

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This was taken at 5.6 or 4, or in betwen; this is my first summcron

and love it, now I don´t use it so much because of crispier image

wide open of newer one, this is also very heavy, this is a favorite

picture made with this lense.

[travis2]

<IMG SRC="http://www.photo.net/photodb/image-display?

photo_id=750764&size=md"></a>

 

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DR 50. FUji Color 400. Good lens, but its heavy. The later 50 crons

are nicer to handle, abeilt harsh in contrast.

[andrew_schank]

I found the DR to be a "contrasty" lens similar to the current

formula, especially from f4.0 on. The old collapsing Summicron lens

was noticeably lower in contrast at all F stops.

[jay_.]

The real issue today is finding a DR or chrome rigid without coating

damage to the front element or internal fog which further reduce the

already lower contrast compared to the later versions.

[david_kelly1]

Andrew's post explains why HCB stayed with the flare-prone old

collapsible, even though Leitz probably sent him each new version to

try out. He was constantly exhorting Picto to print his stuff with

LESS contrast. He wanted subtle gradation above all. As for Jay's

post, which seems to appear whenever these lenses are mentioned:

Yes, undoubtedly, and so what? Cleaning and recoating do not cost the

moon. There is the risk that a particular example of any of the the

seven-element lenses might turn out to be beyond repair but most can

be fixed up nicely and then you've really got something speci

[greg choong]

Hi John, I love the DR lens. I bought it in Ebay and it's in Mint -

condition. Something difficult to find for a lens which is approx 40

years old. The result is stunning. I took this shot without the shade.

 

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<A

HREF="http://www.leica-gallery.net/photo-lib/image/large/anthony-and-j

asmine-in-marine-sourth-27387.jpg"> 50mm DR Shot 1</A>

 

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Greg

[al_kaplan2]

I used to own a D.R.Summicron that came on an M2-R body back

about 1972. I still have the body but long ago swapped the D.R. for

the much lighter 6 element Summicron. The 50mm Summicron was actually

supposed to be 51.9 mm focal length. Since most weren't quite exactly

the right focal length, Leitz would machine the rangefinder cam to

work accurately with the lens. The Dual Range lenses were, I was

told, EXACTLY 51.9mm focal length. It would be too hard to compensate

if they were off. It's easier to use a 90mm at 3 1/2 feet than to

carry around a HEAVY D.R. Summicron for the occasional "close-up".

Coverage area is about the same.

[russell_brooks]

The haze can be a problem. I have a very nice looking Rigid that I

had professionally cleaned. But the haze that gets between the

element cement is still there -- and it flares strongly at the right

angle... I have not given up yet though and will look for a lens that

doesnt have any haze.

[mark_sampson]

At this point, physical condition is the most important thing with a

DR Summicron. The closeup finder isn't much use, to be honest. It's

still a beautiful lens. Haven't used a newer one, but based on my 20+

years using the DR, you should be happy with it. BTW, the

instructions for the M6TTL state that the DR lens must be focused at

infinity to be attached or removed. And the close-up finder will not

fit without modification, as reported above.

[john_ramos]

I cannot thank you enough. I had heard about this site, how it was

the best on Leica questions, I must agree with other people and say

yes it is a fantastic place to learn and get information. Thank you

for your patience, thank you, thank you.

 

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John Ramos