Eeek-irrate- almost client ...

[mikep]

or

 

 

Call the bride and tell her that the date is about to go to another bride, why shouldn't she think this a high pressure tactic on your part to try and fill a date?

 

Different perspective. Same answer. Forget it and move on.

[stacy]

I guess I should make it clear... I never told this girl that the date was being held for her- only that it was available when she called to set up the meeting. And I talked to Mary today and she said she spoke to the girl a few days ago to confirm the meeting and told her we had received other inquires for that date. So now I don't feel so bad- she knew other people were looking at this date. Also- I didn't go with one person over the other due to venues or anything besides the fact that this girl was ready to pay today...$4300. That is a lot of money to turn away just because someone else set up a meeting for the same date.

 

From now on though I will be sure to be more specific when people set up a meeting and tell them that from time to time couples will call and book over the phone and their date is not being held until a deposit is paid.

 

Thanks everyone for your input...a little lesson on ethics vs. business. I have learned a lot today.

[jaimie blue]

"From now on though I will be sure to be more specific when people set up a meeting and tell them that from time to time couples will call and book over the phone and their date is not being held until a deposit is paid."

 

This is a good lesson and reminder for me too. Thanks.

[larry schaefer - chicago,]

Stacy-

 

What did the dialogue with your "gut" say the first few times you spoke to client A ? Did she seem like a good possibility that you were looking forward to seeing?

 

Sell and deal with people the way YOU like being sold to and dealt with.

[kevin teachey]

I agree with Larry. A gut instinct is often your best advisor. A rider in your literature about first come first serve with the deposit can help. Who is more likely to book? The bride on the fence or the bride with a credit card?

[mike dixon]

<I>So all of you who would book the sure thing every time--what if the first bride countered with a bigger package offer--would you drop the second bride and go back to the first (one has to eat, that's business and all)?</i><P>

Of course not--I'd have already entered into a contract with the first person who paid the deposit. I wouldn't break that contract simply because a better offer came along.<P>

I don't think that setting up an appointment to talk about possibly booking a certain date confers, or even implies, that the person with the appointment has the right to first refusal for that date. There was nothing unethical or even particularly rude about Stacy's decision.

[hugh_jaramillo]

Stacy,

 

This is a business, as such the client who forks the money first gets the services, there is nothing more to it than that. You don't have an obligation to anybody but yourself in your business.

 

A few years back I had a situation where a bride and groom had an appointment and another bride contact me to let me know that "she had to had me for her wedding" I told her that I needed to talk to the other couple first, they show up and explain to them that another person was also interested on the date and that they needed to give me an anwser ASAP, to make a long story short the first couple thought that I trying to get them to sign on the spot and the second lady never show up.

 

Never again, money talks and that is the end of it, you did the right thing.

 

Hugh

[will_perlis]

"...their date is not being held until a deposit is paid."

 

Yeah. Some other business dealings have "rights of first refusal" or its equivalent and those are spelled out because they're worth something. If someone wants notification when a "must commit $" decision point is reached they should pay something for that.

[Dave Gardner]

Stacy...if you didn't feel like you did something wrong...we wouldn't be having this discussion

 

You should have given the first bride a chance. You told her the date was opened...then you made an appointment to meet her. how would you like it....if when you went to meet her...she didn't show....and when you called her...she said she found someone else.

 

IMHO that was bad!!!!

 

Dave

[huey_stevens]

Stacy

 

Run into this problem all the time. 1. You need to earn a living, and from what I read Bride A knew that someone else was looking at that date. 2. From now on indicate to prospectful clients your policy on equivalent dates. You need to come up with a policy and explain that to each person who says they want to come in and peruse the goods.

 

If Bride A was so hot to get your services, she would have gotten in earlier, or booked you. Refer her to someone you trust to do her wedding. Bride B is booked, move on to other business. From experience you will not satisfy all the people all the time.

 

Hope this helps - Hugh

[mgvaughan.com]

Money talks- By sending the chocolates and a list of referrals you risk the bad mouthing of your business on a wider scale. Your apology is fine by itself.

[jaimie blue]

"Money talks"

 

but it does not listen and listening in the deeper sense is the key for successful relationships with people, not talking.

[richard_hoover]

"Money talks."

 

Bingo. Customer is not being fair and frankly pretty hypocritical. Imagine this Stacy . . . that prospect had something for sell . . . anything . . . a car, a fridge, a laptop, a painting she made and someone came up and offerred to pay on the spot her asking price . . . let alone, even above her asking price.

 

Does anyone really think the prospect would say . . . oh, I can't sell it to you now cause someone called up and made an appointment to come look at it next week and decide whether they wanted to buy it or not or pay less. Could you wait a week.

 

Who on earth would do this? The prospect is being unfair and frankly, you should not have sent her a box of chocolates as that could fire by signaling to your angry prospect that indeed she is right to be angry.

 

In the future, do make it explicit that it is first come [actually, first pay], first served for booking dates. But frankly, people should already know this. IS there really any other industry, especially service industry, where a date for service gets reserved with no down payment . . . even getting reserved when the person actually has not made a decision but wants to meet to talk about making a commitment.

[mike dixon]

I agree completely with Richard Hoover.<P>

 

<i>You told her the date was opened...then you made an appointment to meet her. how would you like it....if when you went to meet her...she didn't show....and when you called her...she said she found someone else.</i><P>

 

A much more accurate analogy would be arranging an appointment with someone, then having them call you about a week before to let you know that they had hired someone else to shoot their wedding. Personally, I would be disappointed I didn't get the chance to sell my services, but I'd thank the person for letting me know promptly and wish them the best for their wedding. Would the appropriate response be to give her a serious verbal thrashing for daring to hire someone else before meeting with me?

[picturesque]

No, because you're not the one paying her upwards of $2000 to shoot her wedding--she's paying (or would have been paying) you. In my opinion, it makes a difference who produces the wallet. Again, I point out this is not a right or wrong situation, so analogies and speculation on what someone would or wouldn't do or should or shouldn't do or what is fair and unfair are pointless. Stacy did what she did, the client reacted, Stacy learned how not to get into the same situation again.

[mike dixon]

I'll grant that, as far as pragmatic steps to take, the issue is resolved.<P>

<i>No, because you're not the one paying her upwards of $2000 to shoot her wedding--she's paying (or <b>would have been paying</b>) you. In my opinion, it makes a difference who produces the wallet.</i><P>

No, that should be "<b>might</b>" have been paying you." The girl with the appointment had not produced the wallet--she had done nothing more than talk on the phone to set up an appointment. As it turned out, the girl who <b>is</b> paying and who actually produced the wallet (well, the credit card) is the one who booked the date.

[picturesque]

Knew you would use that statement to further your point...I meant that in a theoretical way (buyer/seller relationship), not specific to the case, but no matter...

[mike dixon]

; )

 

Fair enough. I posted my analogy above in response to how several people in this thread have argued that Stacy should put the shoe on the other foot. It's a reasonable suggestion, except that most of the ways they outlined the converse of the situation have been heavily skewed in order to lay more blame on Stacy. By reversing the roles accurately and showing the business owner giving the irate response, I hoped to get people thinking about just what is ethical, courteous, and reasonable. While there are certainly differences between the roles of the client and service provider, I don't think those differences entitle the client to behave in a completely selfish and abusive manner (though it certainly does happen)--they certainly don't entitle a potential client whom you haven't even met to behave that way. Is losing one possible choice of photographers to shoot your wedding any more damaging or upsetting than losing a chance to earn thousands of dollars?

[medina photography cherry]

Yes- the first bride has every right to be upset. Just put your self in her shoes.I know this point has been established, just wanted to throw my 2 cents in to make it an even dollar.

[Dave Gardner]

Mike....all analogy aside. I simply pointed out the 'fact that bride 1 was lead to believe that the date was opened (fact)...bride 1 called first (fact)...at least have the decency to call bride 1 and let her know that there was another ready to book. This would...since she called first...give her the chance to say yes or no.

 

That's all there is to it...it's not about 'might'...it's not about business...its not about money...it's about courtesy, about giving your 'word' in a sense.

 

Stacy should have called her and given her the chance....and i think she knows that. Hey...live and learn.

 

Dave

[stacy]

I did send her the chocolates- not because I was sorry that I booked the other person, but because I was sorry for the misunderstanding. I actually never anticipated the first girl going crazy when I called -that's why I was so taken back. In my mind the booking policy was clear, but apperently other photographers don't work that way so from now on I'll make it clear anytime someone calls to set up a meeting.

 

Calico- I must have missed your post last time- what a nice thing to say- thank you!

[35mmdelux]

"So all of you who would book the sure thing every time--what if the first bride countered with a bigger package offer--would you drop the second bride and go back to the first (one has to eat, that's business and all)?"

 

RESPONSE:

Absolutely I would have booked the first to show me the CC. Going back n' forth is extremely poor business and lacks integrity.

 

If one has a true problem with the size of the package, then I would suggest rethinking your pricing strategy. Businesses don't sit by the phone waiting for the biggest sale. They're much to smart for that. Businesses if they do anything at all focus on pricing strategies - that is the point of the spear - and they make money however the pendulum swings.

 

Sometimes you get big deals and sometimes you don't. But statistically speaking it evens out. I've taken on smaller deals for instance and afterwards the B&G came back for a ton of extras and turned what started out as a small deal into some of the biggest deals I'd made.

 

Regie Denis (or Denis Regie) takes them "first come first served."

 

PS: BTW don't expect a box of chocolates from Regie if you don't show him your CC and reserve the date.

[richard_hoover]

"So all of you who would book the sure thing every time--what if the first bride countered with a bigger package offer--would you drop the second bride and go back to the first (one has to eat, that's business and all)?"

 

You're comparing a situation where a legal liablity has been accepted by both parties [a prospect has become a client, making a firm legal committment that has been accepted] , to apparently make some sarcastic point about "it's all about money."

 

No . . . No . . . No. Regardless of any legality or illegality [civilly speaking] . . . morally it's all about mature, responsible adults having reasonable, consistent expectations and/or after-the-fact understanding.

 

Moral adults not FRUSTRATED, SELF_IMPORTANT, HYPOCRITICAL BABIES, going wha . . . wha . . . . how dare you not turn away/put on hold another to wait on me [and risk Mr./Ms. I'm Ready Now going away and Ms. Self-Important not working out anyways].

 

No one has refuted that in any other situation, Ms. "serious inquirer" quote unquote would take the money first. No one.

 

Nor has anyone pointed out any industry, let alone, an industry that really is comparable where the practice is otherwise. Where a prospect would feel "owed" not just that it might be nice or financially beneficial to hold off but where the ethic is that the prospect is actually "owed a right" to have service held for them without making any kind of real commitment/payment.

 

But the customer is always right? Exactomundo as Samuel L. Jackson would say.

 

The prospect that "put their money where their mouth is" by putting themselves out legally [making a firm legal committment] and financially [putting money out] is the CUSTOMER.

 

The "still considering" is not the customer.

[lb-]

"Photography would be great if I didn't have clients to deal with."

 

sorry to single out your quote rich ( and I realize you were likely in jest) but it does

illustrate what seems to be a downright animosity on the part of some here toward clients.

 

maybe some of you would be happier shooting something other than weddings. seriously.

 

Brides to be are a UNIQUE client base and are often very frazzled and a little compassion

doesn't seem so out of place to me. It is easy to understand bride #1's disappointment

and while I don't think it's right for her to have been mean to stacy, a grain of salt can be

taken.

 

I work with alot of art directors and marketing people ( non wedding work). They are also a

very stressed out demographic. when they yell at me I yell back. when they want to put a

hold on me I say I'll believe it when I see the check. if I'm booked on a commercial job

and a much better one comes along I try to work it out so I can take the better one. It's

just business and business is tough.

 

but the bride to be is not in business. She is not making money from my work. she is

planning what's supposed to be the happiest day of her life. I do not treat her like an art

director or commercial client.

[jaimie blue]

Right on Lucas!