steakandale Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Last night I shot the semi-posed formals for a Bar-Mitzvah I'm doing this weekend. The mom has the most sensitive eyes I've have ever encountered. I tried all my tricks; Slam your eyes shut real tight, Open! Ok, on the count of three. One...FLASH a little public humiliation (close family friend) nothing worked. It was amazing. I have I think one shot with eyes open and at a distance. Many are just slits. Most are totally shut. Can people with sensitive eyes detect the Nikon ittl preflashes or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcsaint Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 I had a bride whom, I was told by friends and relatives, ALWAYS blinked in pictures and I would NEVER get a picture of her without her blinking. I used bounceflash for nearly every picture with her in it and got only 1 or 2 (out of hundreds) with a blink. I can't say I knew this would work -- I just started taking pictures to see if she would blink and ended up having no problem. Marc St.Onge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steakandale Posted January 20, 2006 Author Share Posted January 20, 2006 I just advised someone earlier to use the SEARCH feature... and I didn't this time. Duh. Lots of good threads there. I really think this is a case of Photoshop=required. I also need a better way to cope than cute tricks though. If this were a paid wedding I would be really sweating bullets right now. I'm hitting the manual to see about turning off pre-flashes. I noticed her mom did it too, runs in the family I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_gifford Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 <<I'm hitting the manual to see about turning off pre-flashes.>> To make preflash go away: Disable TTL flash. Use full manual flash settings, or Auto (sensor on the flash itself) settings. Be well, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_cochran Posted January 20, 2006 Share Posted January 20, 2006 Yep, I never have the problem, but I never use preflash. Even the most accomplished blinkers can't manage to blink faster than a single X-sync flash. Sure, occasionally I'll catch a random blink, but it's such a rare thing that I know the blink wasn't in response to the flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 I also use the fake count to minimize problems with blinkies and goofy faces but it doesn't always work. I've heard some folks report that preflash with the D70/D70s and SB-800 or SB-600 causes blinkies. I don't see that problem with my D2H and SB-800 - the preflash is virtually imperceptible. Even my mom's blue-eyed Siamese cat doesn't get the blinkies when I use TTL flash. A fellow Nikonista who switched from the D70 to the D2H reports his problem with blinkies disappeared. Also, be sure you're not using redeye reduction. This is a sure way to cause blinkies. It's better to elevate the flash and/or use a diffuser to minimize redeye problems. You can eliminate the preflash by using the flash in auto thyrister or manual mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john schroeder Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 I have found that super-glue works well for keeping eyes open. I know some blinkers also. The best solution I have found is doing two exposures in rapid succession with the camera. Lukily I have a Quantam battery pack for my flash so recycle time isn't an issue. If they don't like the idea of super-glue you could also use staples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nstock Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Roofing tar works best... In all seriousness, I never use the preflash thing. I always considered this a "gimmick" to reduce red eye which the flash bracket eliminates anyway. For bad blinkers you have to sneak up on 'em. Got two in my family!!! Then there is the "squinter." They know they will blink and they know the flash will hurt their eyes, so they SQUINT. Oh then they don't blink but man is their face contorted by the squint. Good candidates for hot lights or the new "cold" hot lights or ambient and a reflector, not that this is always convenient for wedding work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyMason1 Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Dale try catching the person relaxed and unaware that they are being photographed...granted it may take awhile and you may have to follow them around a bit or use a bit of trickery (pretend your focusing on someone else) but occasionly I have to employ this tactic with an un- cooperating individual...some people subconsciously hate being photographed but there are ways around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_gifford Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 <<I never use the preflash thing. I always considered this a "gimmick" to reduce red eye which the flash bracket eliminates anyway.>> Preflash is not the same thing as redeye reduction flashes. Redeye reduction flashes are fired rather significantly before the main flash, because they are supposed to get the subject's pupil to contract (a process that takes a wee bit of time). You and I agree that such technology does not work particularly well, and we also agree that a flash bracket makes the redeye reduction flash unnecessary anyway. Preflash happens within a small fraction of a second before the main flash. It is not even visible as a separate flash for most folks. The CAMERA can see it separately, though. The camera detects the effect of the preflash and instantly calculates the proper setting for the main flash...which then fires immediately. The whole sequence takes maybe a tenth of a second. The problem with preflash is this: the blink reflex in some people works at just the "wrong" speed. The preflash gets them to blink. The subsequent main flash captures their eyes closing or closed. For such people, turning off the preflash can help, because when only the main flash fires, the exposure is complete before the subjects' blink reflex can do its thing. Turning off preflash often means doing without TTL flash... because the preflash is part of the TTL flash exposure calculation series. Be well, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steakandale Posted January 21, 2006 Author Share Posted January 21, 2006 Thanks everyone. Many more good tips here. After a little RTFB (read the book), the SB-800 manual on page 36 says Monitor Preflashes are not fired when the SB-800's flash head is adjusted to other than the horizontal/front or down to -7 degrees, or in the camera's rear curtain sync mode, even when the double lightning bolt appears in the viewfinder... Mine was straight up with an LSPJII and some taken at 45* so I wasn't firing preflashes. interesting, and good to know. I wonder if the LSPJ diffuser causes more blinking because its so much bigger like a table lamp going off. I'm going to try just the pull-out diffuser card or the box-diffuser that came with the flash without the Lightsphere on her tonight and test that, and sneak around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce_rubenstein___nyc Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Pre-flash is different on different Nikon cameras. With my D200 I can see the preflash through the viewfinder regardless of the position of the head in TTL mode. When it comes back from Nikon I'll check it with rear curtain sync. I haven't had a problem with blinking with TTL. I do have a blinking problem if I use the camera in Commander mode with a remote SB600, because there is a lot of prfalsh activity associated with controlling the remote flash. I've been told that using a SB800 as the commander alleviates the problem. The D2 series cameras have a less noticable pre-flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twmeyer Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 also consider a faster sync speed. I see this problem alot more often with even slightly slower shutter speeds. <p>A remedy, if you must use a slower shutter, is to switch to rear curtain sync, so most of the actual exposure is pre-flash and the subject's blink response to the flash is a fraction of a second behind the actual light burst. With first curtain sync, the flash pops at the beginning of the exposure and the shutter remains open to catch the blinking response... t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd peach seattle, washi Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 The difference in this pre-flash behavior between a D70 and a D2H is like night and day. On the D70, I clearly see the pre-flash via the viewfinder, and I would suspect that this could lead to lots of 'blinkies' (though I have not been plagued with them). The D2H pre-flash is so close to the exposure itself (in time) that it is imperceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank_skomial Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 For completeness of discussion... some people can hear the SLR camera mirror slap noise and close eyes regardless of any pre-flashes. This was notorious problem with Pentax 6X7 camera, where advice was to play loud music. Range finder, point and shoot, or Twin Lens Reflex camera is the untimate solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anne_morgan Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 I can say that, for ME, the pre-flash on the Nikons drives me crazy! I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who's noticed it. I have two friends who use the D70 and that extra flash is very irritating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimberly_smith___anchorage Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Dale,<BR> I'm an aweful blinker myself. Believe it or not, it has nothing to do with the flash...it's the shutter! Whenever I hear the shutter, my eyes will close. The only way I can get over it, is to focus on relaxing and KEEPING MY EYES OPEN. It took my husband about 6 rolls of film, and all evening to get me to understand that the camera is not going to hurt me...especially with the results. :-)<BR> Maybe try a huge telephoto lens, and a remote shutter. Then sneak the shots in. But, for all I know you could already be doing this.<BR> Good luck!<BR> Kimberly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steakandale Posted January 22, 2006 Author Share Posted January 22, 2006 Well I finished going over the reception shots from last night and they turned out much better. When groups included my "blinker", I did not use the lightsphere, pre-flashes were off, and I made a conscious effert to stay "longer" in focal length more into short-tele range. Not 100% but enough to save the day... A good learning experience for me. I was mainly interested in building upon my problem solving under fire and I was able to get some good shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masque Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 My answer to this problem has been to bounce when possible, and to use FV lock. I tell the subjects that the first flash doesn't count, and I've even had some subjects comment to others in the frame that they thought it was for redeye - I usually happily just explain that it's a metering thing, and it means they'll not be blinking in the exposure. I tried other explanations - all true, of course - but this one tends to get the point across with a smile on both ends. Anyway, point is: FV Lock. It's your new best friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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