Which modes do you use for indoor flash?

[ilkka_nissila]

I have previously shot all my indoor flash events with an SB-22 on

various film cameras. I just use TTL mode and a home-made bounce

card and the results on color negative film have been very good.

 

In the spring I bought an SB-800 since I realized the SB-22 doesn't

do very well on the D70 (no TTL flash). I also got a Lumiquest Big

Bounce and a bracket which I can use to do vertical shots without

the shadows on one side.

 

First, I used the TTL BL mode which is balanced TTL flash. I got

grainy shadows using color negative film which I never had with my

SB-22. I understand that this would happen if the flash exposure is

more precise for the main subject, which is probably the case here.

So should I just dial in +1.5 exp compensation or something to get

good shadows on C-41? I also tried plain TTL mode which seemed to be

a bit better but not as good as regular TTL on my SB-22. After some

playing with my D70 and the SB-800 I realize that TTL BL only works

correctly if you give in an apprimately equal amount of ambient

light so that the flash exposure is balanced with the available

light. Ok, so I just use plain TTL flash when I don't have enough

available light for TTL BL.

 

However, my D70 flash contacts have been behaving erratically.

Sometimes the TTL symbol comes up without the flash symbols,

indicating that the flash doesn't recognize the camera as supporting

the preflashes. I realized that 1) it doesn't happen with my other

cameras, and 2) it can be solved at least temporarily by scratching

the surface of the contacts on the D70 flash shoe. I guess there is

some corrosion there. Now, the problem has repeated itself every

once in a while, so instead of scratching the contacts I should let

Nikon do it properly.

 

What is interesting is that the shots without the preflashes and

presumably "D" info are typically overexposed by about 1.5 stops (if

we look at the faces which are the highlights) on the D70. So for

digital shooting the regular TTL flash without preflashes is not

good enough, but for C-41 film it was perfect. It seems I can't

disable the preflashes / use of D info when the everything

communicates properly. What's more confusing is that the preflashes

are said not to be used with F5/F100 when the flash head is tilted

in certain ways.

 

Looking through the manual, all the different

camera/lens/flash/settings and what actually happen make me wonder

why people think the flash system is so great. It's overwhelming and

for me it's difficult to predict what will happen when I take the

shot.

 

So, my plan is as follows. Check every once in a while that the

preflash symbols are visible in TTL mode when using it with my D70.

This way I know it's working correctly. Hopefully this will give me

a consistent set of exposures on digital. On C-41 film, I need to

deliberately set the flash to overexpose by 1-2 stops so that I get

decent-looking shadows. In case the preflash symbols are not

visible, I know that the camera is in the "old-style TTL" mode,

where I don't want to be applying +1-2 stops for C-41 and I may need

to apply -1-2 compensation on a digital. Fussy, eh?

 

Also, I prefer my old bounce cards to the complex Lumiquest system,

it just doesn't stay still enough and I have to keep adjusting the

velcros.

 

Sometimes I wonder why I bothered to try digital with flash, and why

I paid so much for the new flash ... or maybe I'm just out of date.

 

Now, what if I just set up everything using manual flash and my

Minolta Autometer IV. At least that I know would always work. But my

subjects might not understand why the need to go about to take

readings etc....

 

In case you missed the question, I would like to hear how you

operate your fancy new flashes with D/super-TTL and different types

of media in situations where things are happening fast.

[charlie_johnson1]

I had an SB-22 I used on a Nikon N4004s and got great pictures using the TTL setting. When I got my D1, I tried using the SB-22 and it would only work using the Auto Aperture (AA) or Manual settings, no TTL. I sold my SB-22 and got a SB-80DX, which was supposed to have D-TTL that would work with my D1. My results have been lousy. Again, using the AA setting on the 80DX seemed to work best. I have the Lumiquest Pocket Bouncer, and I got great results with it on my SB-22, even with the Velcro being attached kind of funky. When I put it on my SB-80DX, again, crappy results. I have kicked myself for getting rid of my SB-22. I learned only recently that I needed to set more controls on my D1 and my SB-80DX to get good results. Also, you can't use the Nikon books alone to figure it out.

 

I learned that I had to turn on the Red Eye Reduction feature on the camera in order to use it in the SB-80DX. The Nikon book didn't tell me this; Thom Hogan's book on the D1 gave me that information. Also, setting the ISO and White Balance settings for the primary light source is important. I have read that information from both Thom Hogan and B. Moose Peterson. Don't use the Auto WB setting, it doesn?t work right, you have to set it for the appropriate lighting conditions and source. I tried this just the other night with my SB-80DX using the D-TTL, with and without the matrix focusing setting and it seemed to work. I haven't tried this yet with my Pocket Bouncer but I will be experimenting in time.

 

What I have done using the Pocket Bouncer, setting the flash to AA and adjusting the power output manually up or down has helped, especially being able to shoot more frames and pick and choose what I want to keep. Another thing you may also try, if the feature is available on your D70, is Exposure Bracketing. If you can turn it on and adjust your exposure values, let the camera do the work for you. I would also find additional books on your D70 and SB-800 namely from Nikon System Gurus like Thom Hogan and B. Moose Peterson. They tell you of their trials and errors that they have had with various Nikon bodies and accessories. I hope this helps and good luck. Also, I just got myself another SB-22 from Ebay. I still have my 4004s, I need a flash that I know works with it.

[csuzor]

A couple of comments.

 

The preflash is very visible on the d70 in ittl mode (but not to the photographer, because the mirror is flipped up) (not in rear-sync mode). If you dont see it there is a problem. This preflash is used to determine flash power output, and only works in the central part of the photo (not quite center spot metering, but more than center weight). If the subject is off-center, use Flash Value lock with subject on center, then recompose.

 

I typically set flash exposure on sb-800 to -1/3eV, leave full auto on flash and limit camera exposure to 1/60 or faster (to avoid blur, and I accept that distant backgrounds can be dark with this limitation).

 

Finally, the flash exposure sensor on d70 has its limits, and can miss blown highlights... if the subject is a little reflective, yes, you do need to compensate exposure by 0.5 or 1 stop, but the d70 has low noise, so you can always recover under-exposed areas during raw conversion (you are shooting raw NEF, right?). With d2h, no need, flash exposure is better.

[scott_linstead]

I don't do a whole lot of indoor people stuff, but when I do with the sb-800, I set it on regular TTL, with -1 to -1 1/3 compensation on the flash. Otherwise, I find the flash is just too bright, resulting in point-and-shoot style white faces. I also put the diffuser on. 1/60th in these situations is the shutter speed I tend to use, sometimes lower to pull in some ambient light. I realise this is not a sophisticated answer, but this seems to give consistant results.

[Rich B NYC]

Illka,

 

I doubt that you're out of date. It's just that today's photo equipment is so needlessly complex that learning all the settings and variables has become a full-time job.

 

My SB22 works just fine on my nice simple FE2...even using the Auto flash modes. :-) Compensation only involves opening up a stop or so.

 

I realize that this doesn't solve your problem but sometimes simple is better.

 

Rich

[ky2]

For east snapshots, shutter priority, fill flash bounced off ceiling.

[david_h._hartman]

<em>I doubt that you're out of date. It's just that

today's photo equipment is so needlessly complex that learning

all the settings and variables has become a full-time job.

--Richard Borovoy<br>

</em><br>

I often use the least amount of automation necessary or maybe I

should say desirable. I like all the options but dont care

to use all of them as the complexity mounts, I pick and chosse. I

found the FE2 with SB-24 and SB-15 easy and reliable with TTL.<br>

<br>

Indoors I commonly shoot in manual exposure mode using a shutter

speed from 1/250th down to 1/30th depending on the lens, ambient

light and such. I use i-TTL, FP with the SB-800 indoors or at

night as i-TTL, BL, FP tends to under expose for me when the

ambient light level is low. This is manual exposure for the

ambient light exposure and aperture preferred exposure if you

will for the flash exposure. There are so many variables and Im

still learning the SB-800.<br>

<br>

With my F5 I used the SB-24 in TTL, non-balanced with slide films

and found it as easy as with the FE2 and even easier with

negative films where I rate the film at 0.5x ISO with no fear of

blowing out highlights.<br>

<br>

Getting back to Richards statement I think it best to

simplify things especially when learning and Im still

learning the SB-800. The SB-800 has a GN or Distance

Priority mode. Its not an automated mode as such but

the flash collects information from the camera. If the flash is

calibrated it might work out as accurate as using a flash meter.<br>

<br>

These techniques arent with an SB-800 but they might give

some ideas. I used to use a Vivitar 285 with my F2As for macro. I

know macro is different but it adds only one step. Id focus

on the receptor of my Minolta Flash Meter III and pop an open

flash. Id open up from the reading according to the

standard exposure compensation for the effective aperture at

scale and then fire at will. This is deadly accurate.<br>

<br>

When I bought my first Hasselblad I guess I sold my Vivitar 283

to raise cash. The only flash I owned was a manual Vivitar 102.

It used (4) four AA cells and recycled very fast. I order to

speed up my end of the process I placed labels on the quick focus

handles on my lenses. Id focus, note the aperture closest

to the top, consider transparence v. negative and set the

aperture by half stops as required by the compur lens mounts.

This is pretty much the same idea as GN or Distance Priority mode.

It looked kind of stupid having the tiny and inexpensive Vivitar

102 on a $78.00 Hasselblad angled bracket over a 500CM with NC-2

but exposure was totally accurate.<br>

<br>

Ilkka, Im not sure how much help this is as Im still

learning to use the SB-800 with my D2H. I hope someone has a

silver bullet for this ;) There are some guides online for this

and I need to do some serious reading.<br>

<br>

Regards,<br>

<br>

Dave Hartman.<br>

<br>

Ive found in smallish rooms that the doomed diffuser that

came with the SB-800 gives beautiful light. Also I still use the

3x5 index card trick for greater distance if Ive got

an average white ceiling.<br>

<br>

---<br>

<br>

<em>For east snapshots, shutter priority, fill flash

bounced off ceiling. --Yaron Kidron<br>

</em><br>

Thank You Yaron! Now can you tell us your technique for west

snapshots?? I live in California.<br>

<br>

<em>That was stupid! I post so many typos Ill never hear

the end of this.</em>

[ky2]

Of course David. Snapshots to the east are much easier during sunset :)

 

East=Easy :) too much turkey :(

[frank uhlig]

Simple: set to Manual exposure and 1/80 to 1/200 of a sec, set aperture as you like f/5.6 to f/11 and shoot away. Works perfectly.

[Ed_Ingold]

Ilkka, I guess everyone thinks you should get an FE and an SB-22. I think you're ok with the D70 and an SB-800. I have a D2h, not a D70, but there may be enough similarities to overcome the differences in details.

 

C-41 film is pretty forgiving, whereas the D70 is closer to slide film. If you print your own (non-scanned) C-41 stuff, your judgement is pretty reliable. Otherwise, some photo-tech is saving your reputation. Shooting RAW gives you up to 4 more stops overexposure than you might think just looking at the histogram.

 

The control contacts only operate at about 5 VDC, so it doesn't take much grunge to intefere. I use a microfiber cloth, sometimes dampened with a little lens cleaner, on the contacts. The dry cloth is very effective at removing grease.

 

The automatic balanced-fill option appears when the camera is compatible with i-TTL. (p38). If it doesn't appear, there may be a problem with the camera setting, or an electrical problem.

 

(My normal flash work is in Aperture Priority, at ISO 400 and f/5.6 to f/8).

 

Pre-flash occurs only when the flash head is level or depressed (a 7 degree stop). It does not occur if the head is in any other position, or the rear flash mode is selected. According to the SB-800 manual, this is nearly instantaneous. There's no special mention of the D70 operation - I don't know if there is a difference.

 

TTL exposure is not automatic enough to cover all situations, or even most flash situations, without a little help. A strong light in the background (a bulb or window) can fool the system into an underexposure. Inside, against a distant or dark background usually leads to overexposure - I set the flash comp to -2/3 stop, which works out pretty well for events (fund-raisers, dances, receptions,...).

 

The diffusion dome that comes with the SB-800 is pretty effective, IMO. In a room with a reasonably low, light ceiling, enough light bounces around to open up the shadows and background. Closer than 8 feet, I often turn the head straight up. This increases the ratio of room to subject lighting, and seems to eliminate overexposures as close as 3 feet or so (why would I get closer?). Without the dome, the SB-800 has too much falloff at the edges for my taste - I take it off only for fill flash in bright sun. Play with the dome! You can "work it" in a lot of different ways.

 

I seldom use a bracket. The diffusion dome works well enough for informal shots. If I need good, off-camera lighting, I use a Q-flash or monolight on a stand, and a flash meter. I find brackets, cords, Lumiquest heads and all the dead weight just too much to deal with for the limited benefits obtained.

[ilkka_nissila]

</i>According to the SB-800 manual, the preflashes are not fired if the camera is of group I (which consists of the film cameras compatible with lens distance info prior to the F6) and either 1) the flash head is not in either straight forward or -7 degrees down position, or 2) rear curtain sync is active. If the camera is CLS-compatible or D-TTL compatible the preflashes are fired even if the flash head points somewhere else. That's what the manual seems to say anyway.

<p>

Talk about simple ... sometimes I think it would have been good if Nikon had implemented the digital system from scratch.

<p>

As for the forgiveness of C-41 film, well, when you use flash as the main light, you really have to give the film a lot of light if you don't want the shadows to look ugly. On slide film or digital, the optimal flash exposure is many stops different than that for C-41, at least in this case. If you have a balanced situation then it's different, but it's a good idea to give the C-41 stuff still some bonus exposure. -- Much of my confusion results from the fact that I assumed that I could just plug the new flash in place and assume that things would go at least as well as before. Not so. This thing has to be <i>learned</i>.

[Ed_Ingold]

I "grew up" using a flash table taped to the head of my Stroboflash IV. There are so many options on an SB-800, even that would be difficult.

 

I get consistently BAD results using the flash without the diffuser - generally overexposed. The SB800 seems to have a hot spot - probably to hype-up the guide number for what is probably a 50 joule flash - that TTL can't manage. With a little diffusion and bounce, the SB-800 becomes a sweet puppy.

[Rich B NYC]

" Ilkka, I guess everyone thinks you should get an FE and an SB-22."--Edward Ingold

 

Edward,

 

I know that you're kidding and my earlier comment was also tongue in cheek.

 

Obviously, there's no one camera/flash that's right for everyone in every situation.

 

One of the reasons that I'm still shooting film with old Nikon MF and Leica RF cameras is their simplicity. I've found that by limiting the "features" on my equipment to what I need (as opposed to what some manufacturer wants me to think that I need) my results are far more consistent.

 

I went the "auto everything" route with an N80 a few years ago. Nice enough camera but needlessly complex for my style of photography. There are probably plenty of people who need (or think that they need) all those options to make a decent picture but I'm just not one of them.

 

Whatever works.

 

Rich