D2x "Special Site" wFlash approach worthless to me

[richard_lewis3]

Why doesn't Nikon get it??? While it's core base of Pro Photographers

are crying out for R&D to bring worthwhile features and upgrades to

it's Dxxx product line, the marketing department is spending much

needed resources on worthless features we, or at least I, don't want

or need!

 

First, is this D2x site really needed by those looking to purchase

the camera? Most prospective customers in this price range are savvy

enough to search through the variety of forums and equipment sales

sites for the broad range of information needed. Second, the

dedication of this site to the D2x, and the associated "hyped"

approach, conveys the impression this camera is in serious need of

special marketing attention, and isn't doing well on it's own merits.

Third, even if there is some need, even in the normal course of

marketing, to dedicate a site to this camera, the "Flash heavy"

approach, and the additional time is takes to utilize it, not only

defeats the viewing options and flexibility, but also runs counter to

the reason many will want this camera: FOR SPEED! [i do realize the

desire for resolution, of course.]

 

I'm sure there are many other arguements against this site, but I

can't think of many positive ones for it. Maybe you can. In any

event, you get the idea. If enough of Nikon's installed base of high

end camera users, Pro and others alike, gave out a concerted "hue and

cry" for more resources to be spent to develop the features we want

and need, at a quicker pace, we might actually have some effect for a

change.

OldPhotos

[frank uhlig]

Is the URL of this "annoying-you" site a secret? Why?

[ilkka_nissila]

Few marketing people are good camera designers, so no real resources are wasted. Canon built a hype site about their FF technology, so Nikon built one about theirs. The function of this site is mainly to give the impression that Nikon is at the forefront of digital SLR technology. It's not really meant to advertise the D2X to potential buyers but to build an image of Nikon and their products.

[lee hamiel]

I'm guessing that most pros have/use "flash" - not my favorite cup of tea but part of the real world.

 

I have no issues with speed as broadband is the only way to go if possible - I recently relocated & one condition with the locale was that broadband was available.

 

From a corporate perspective - they have consigned a project to an outside source (I'm guessing) & asking them to do the latest cutting edge technology for their site. I do not blame them for this at all.

 

Either enjoy the show/ignore it/go to Canon

 

If you own this camera you are one of the lucky few photographers that own it - enjoy your camera & let it be.

 

I can't stand whining like this - are you for real?

 

Post some profound images so I can understand your profound dislike for Nikon's take on flash based sites. Please do so.

[richard_lewis3]

Ilkka

You're on the money with your comments! My bone of contention is that it's a waste of resources, marketing or otherwise, since it doesn't really reach the general public and is worthless to the Pro photographer. Whether it's internally generated or externally sourced, it either cost time better spent on other initiatives, or cost $$ better spent on R&D, IMHO. Do you find it helpful? Particularly with the "flash" intensive approach?? I'll be surprised if you do.

 

What it boils down to is a play for "cachet", in the DSLR marketplace. Some have mentioned they think it's a "Thank You" from Nikon. That's a very expensive "thanks", although I don't really think Nikon has any history of this "altruistic" behavior. The vast majority of corporations, Nikon particularly, behave in a self serving manner. Their survival is the focus, not the Pro photographer, as their primary development is really in the general consumer arena. If they were concerned with the Pro photographer, they would behave more proactively to counter Canon's dominance in this area.

 

Frankly, let's face it, as many say, cameras are only tools, not cuddly creatures who can return our love and affection, although some may want them to. My primary investment in digital equipment is Nikon, and it's this impetus that drives me to focus on these issues. Coming from an extensive financial and business background, with intimate knowledge of the ruthlessness of the corporate world, I'm not tied to any one technology or equipment choice other than financially. I chose Nikon because their equipment met my needs at the time. I'm hopeful they will become more agressive in their R&D so they will continue to do so in the future.

[ilkka_nissila]

No, I don't like flash sites either. I'm so used to being able to control my pace of viewing.

 

What in particular do you need which Nikon doesn't offer? I think they've been really successful in some of their recent digital cameras.

[ilkka_nissila]

Personally I don't understand why Nikon hasn't put AF-S in all of their lenses (particularly prime lenses) and what puzzles me immensely are the incredibly bad viewfinders of their consumer DSLRs. But I don't really see much wrong with the D2X (though I'm not a user so maybe I just don't know :-).

[richard_lewis3]

Lee

 

You must be one of those with "warm and fuzzy" feelings toward Nikon. Is that why you can't stand any criticism of them? Remember, they are simply a cold hearted corporation, with the profit motive as their only soul. I'm a pragmetist, and don't get emotional about product brands or equipment. I "can" become focused on problems that impact my equipment choices when it starts to impact my finances. And Nikon has started to do this by their change in focus from the Pro photographer and their equipment to the general consumer, with a much greater purchasing base. How this will evolve, we all will have to wait and see.

 

Also, I was under the impression this site encouraged discussions of this kind, without the emotional responses such as yours when you wrote: "I can't stand whining like this - are you for real?" Criticizing a corporation like Nikon for what I perceive as a waste of corporate resources is substantially different than attacking fellow posters with childish comments.

[rhaytana__tim_adams_]

I share your dislike for web sites requiring flash. I had to close out my browser and load a net surfing set-up I rarely use to view the D2X site, which was more trouble than the information was worth.

[richard_lewis3]

Illka

 

Thom Hogan speaks to this more specifically and eloquently than I:

 

Quote from Thom Hogan review of D2x:

 

"Drawbacks

 

Potentially long reach for small hands. This is a big camera, and shooters with small hands won't find all the controls quite where they want them.

Buffer could be bigger. Yes, you heard me right. Because some will be tempted to use the D2x instead of the D2h for sports and action, the 16 to 22 frame buffer starts to sneak into play. Yes, you can switch to High-speed crop and get a bigger effective buffer, but once you've shot action at 12mp and seen the stunning amount of detail that can be captured, you won't want to switch to 6.9mp.

Requires SB-800 for best flash. If you're going to get a D2x, be prepared to get at least one (and probably three or four) SB-800 Speedlights, as well. Flash is much better with i-TTL than it was with D-TTL, and you have more control and multiple flash TTL with the new system. But you need an SB-800 to get TTL above 1/250 and to control wireless, multiple flash TTL.

Wide isn't wide. If you do scenic work, as I do, you need DX lenses to restore your wide angle due to the 1.5x angle of view change. We've now got enough pixels that the flaws of wide angle lenses, particularly chromatic aberration, are more apparent. The 12-24mm is a nice mate with the D2x, but you'll see that it has a bit of CA you weren't seeing with a D1x.

Noise at higher ISO values. While I'm perfectly happy with the ISO 100 to ISO 400 performance, some will want even better results. High ISO noise is definitely visible, though JPEGs are free from chroma noise, and edge detail is hard to retain if you turn up the noise reduction or use post processing noise reduction.

White balance encryption. Despite being dealt with by the mini-SDK, it still is a lurking thorn.

Diffraction. Being diffraction limited at f/11 is a bit limiting. "

 

My primary concern is high ISO performance, since I shoot some indoor sports without flash and need the speed and high ISO and am spoiled with the larger files sizes than the D2H(s).

[ilkka_nissila]

Well, if you need low high iso noise and high res then the 1D Mk II would probably be your camera. As I see it, Nikon hasn't really tried very hard to get high iso noise down. They must have assumed that people find film-like performance good enough in this respect, and focused on other areas such as color accuracy and detail reproduction.

[alfarabi]

In the first place I don't think money spent on the website is going to make a dint on R&D spending. It is peanuts in comparison to what is needed on R&D. So I really don't think it is a drain on Nikon's resources.

[david_h._hartman]

I find Flash websites boring. The transitions and special effects are the worst part. I'm sure Nikon has spent hundreds of thousands on it. I hope it impresses someone.

[wen_lin]

Most people are easily impressed. Have enough ads and posters and people will think that you make the best products.

 

Besides. It's nikon's money. Let them spend it anyway they like. The amount of money spend on the site isn't gonna put a good viewfinder on the D70 or D50.

[tgersten]

My guess is too that the D2X was built not for actual D2X users but a) pros currently thinking of switching systems either way (low ISO noise and stabilized long lenses vs. the iTTL flash system) and b) for the average DSLR customer. In both cases the idea is to give you a "warm fuzzy feeling" about the brand: "if these pros use Nikon, it can't be that bad." Finally I don't think that at the end of the fiscal year, Nikon looks at their numbers and say "oh, Nikion USA didn't expend their budget, let's improve the viewfinders"...

 

And for the record: I hate flash sites as well.

[lee hamiel]

Richard:

 

A couple of things - I'm sorry I offended you in my earlier posting - it was a knee-jerk reaction after having read numerous postings by people complaining about this or that - and you are correct - this is a place should be able to openly discuss topics & not have others be making inappropriate comments as I did.

 

I sometimes forget that I can change the channel & don't have to tune in. My apologies.

 

With respect to having "warm & fuzzy" feelings towards Nikon - this is incorrect - I have used Nikon for over 30 years - I've seen them dominate the market, lose the market & make a lot of suspect moves over the years. They have had to cater to the general consumer in order to survive & compete. Nikon equipment comprises about 1/3 of my gear & I am not attached to brand names, etc. & simply choose the best tools for my specific needs.

 

I do feel that Nikon is trying to market the D2X to a broad audience & work the trickle down aspect of marketing whereby they will sell a lot of D50/D70's by virtue of exposure to their flagship model.

 

One thing Nikon could do with this new site would be to offer a choice of flash or html for those who wish not to view flash. Being an imaging company I guess they have to try to be cutting edge but they always seem to be late to the game.

[bernard_frank]

I can hardly believe that the original poster didn't paste the link to that famous "Nikon

Flash site", even after Frank remarked on it. What is this? Some kind of secret society?

 

Where is that site? What are we talking about here?

[lee hamiel]

www.nikond2xpro.com

[lee hamiel]

http://nikonimaging.com/global/products/d2x/

[ilkka_nissila]

The thing is that currently the D2X is their only really up-to-date digital body which is highly competitive. This is why they want to emphasize it. The D200 is not out yet but it probably shares much of the same technology so then the site will become more relevant to most users. The way the site is currently set up is "the D2X shows what we can do" and what the idea is that "if you can't afford it now, buy it in a D200 for less money a bit later ..."

[vivek iyer]

Richard, I agree and appreciate your post.

 

Hope, they will add info on the elusive DX wide primes and the DX PC lenses that Illka dreams about in that site as well.

[rick_beets]

I bought my D1X 2 years ago, found myself using it more often than my medium format

systems. Bought the D2X shortly after it became available, sold my medium format and most

large format equipment, (kept the D1X)I now use the D2X almost exclusively. If Nikon wants

to develop a site to better serve the professionals who use their equipment I say Go For It!

[lex_jenkins]

Buncha whiners.

 

Flash is for entertainment. From that perspective the site is pretty well done. Loads up quickly enough over our DSL (some flash sites bog down even DSL) that I didn't get impatient.

 

Sites like this are potentially effective marketing tools. Effective marketing translates to more money for R&D to produce gizmos that maybe will meet with your approval.

[ilkka_nissila]

Lex, Flash might not work well on all browsers while standard HTML works fine. This is my problem - I couldn't get much anywhere on the site when I tried it on my laptop. Maybe it's to do with an erratic wireless connection or something. But I'd be able to access the information much more quickly without the stupid flash stuff. I don't watch TV either, partly for the same reason (it is too slow), but also for lack of reasonable content.

[vivek iyer]

What? MTV, Comedy Central and ESPN do not provide reasonable contents for you?! Shocked, Ilkka!