considdering buying a mediumformat

[claudio farkasch]

hi there

 

I'm in a bit of questioning my self wether to buy a mediumformat or

not and then of course which one.

At the time im shooting on 35mm Nikons but as mediumformat gives me

more clearity and of course the format is diffrent.

 

MAybe some of you has a good idea which type of body,lens equipment to

buy. It should be affordable a good price/value

 

thanks

 

Claudio

[john_banister1]

KEH.com has a lot of used Medium Format outfits that have a good price/value ratio. The larger groupings of the most affordable are in the "BRONICA SQ/SQA/SQAM," "MAMIYA TWIN LENS REFLEX," "MISC MED FORMAT" (Yashica TLR) categories. Of course, I am biased in favor of square. One of these cameras would let you make some rollfilm images and once you've made them, you might have a better feeling about what you're looking for. Also, as they're used and have that good price/value ratio, you could likely get a fair amount of your money back

out of one if you decide you like something else better.

[michael_bach2]

The Rolliflex (TLR familiy) is in my mind a wery good start if you want to go in

to MF.

 

It is not only the camera but the hold workflow that is diferent in MF, like

buying, developing, and printing the 120/220 film. But when you have the

workflow in order, it is a nice medium to play with.

 

www.micbach.dk............"Photography workshops in Spain"

[bueh]

My advise for medium format starters is always the very reliable and very easy to handle Mamiya M645 series. Get one of the old bodies (M645, 1000s, M645J). You have an excellent range of lenses at your disposal, which are inexpensive and widely available on the used market -- and this is quite important, too. You will have a great system camera with fantastic optics and great potential not only for MF beginners. The 645 format is big enough to have all the nice tonal range and rendering of out-of-focus areas you should expect when shooting medium format. The lenses are very reasonably priced (e.g. when compared to manual focus Nikon gear).<br>

And do yourself a favor and buy a hand-held incident light meter and learn how to use it.<p>

[michael_dimarzio]

I am on board with Bueh on the M645. But would recommend the M645 Pro. You get interchangeable backs, can add a motor winder and a meter prism as cash/interest arises. The advise on the meter is spot on, you'll learn more about exposure then a 2AM trip on a NYC subway :)

 

You can get pretty fast with a meter, just to see, once I timed myself on a photo with a M645 Pro. From the time it took me to set up the tripod, compose, measure light, focus and take the picture was 40 seconds. Shot on chrome, exposure was perfect, the photo was ok, some ruined Roman columns in Israel. Mamiya glass is nice, I use a C645 now, and looking at my old chromes from the M645, I remain impressed. Also, the 50mm PC lens is very desireable, though rarely seen on the used market. I'll eventually get it with an adapter for the Conatx.

 

So, you are going to get 2 kinds of answers to your question.

 

1. This has been discussed a thousand time, do a search.

2. And you'll get rec's for every MF camera ever made, and each rec will have very valid points.

 

Also, I really really want a Rollei TLR. But the Mamiya really is a great place to start. Oh, a mamiya repair expierence...I was in Israel, I fell done wet stone stairs at some ruins and just about busted my back, but the fall was cushioned by landing on the M645 Pro with the 50mm PC lens mounted, and tripod. The Manfrotto was bent, the camera/lens covered in mud. I spent teh rest of the day taking photos with a sore back. A few days later, the shutter speed dial went boing, probably was loosened by the impact. I found the tiny spings in a the camera bag, and the camera was repaired in 15 minutes for 10 bucks in Tel Aviv.

 

So, I can attest to that it is a sturdy machine that is easily repairable. An all metal camera would have been very dented. Happy hunting and good luck~md

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

The Mamiya 645 is an excellent choice - I picked up a Pro TL body from KEH in excellent + condition for $225 (not including back, prism, and lens). So, even the current body is affordable. And the lenses are superb.

 

Robert

[aslan_ivo]

The best & easiest way to get into medium format is with a twin-lens camera, starting with the Yashica Mat 124. They cost about $150-$175 on Ebay, and have a very sharp lens which proves that this is NOT a toy camera or junk -- it is an excellent camera easily comparable to the much more expensive models. Subscribe to the Yahoo! YashicaMat users group for more info and deals.

 

The next level up would be the Mamiya C330, which has replacable lens (60mm, 80mm etc) and paralax correction. A solid, professional camera, goes for about $200 or more with the lens. Mamiya will still fix these for you too.

 

If you want single lens reflex, I'd start with an RB67 (pro-SD for mechanical reliability, nothing electronic) or Bronica. I prefer the 6x7 format to the 6x4.5 format.

[paul_sauer]

A used Pentax 645 and a set of used manual focus lenses (I recommend buying from KEH)

is an outstanding value with outstanding quality.

 

I wouldn't recommend a TLR as a first medium format camera -- many of the used

cameras are in poor condition, focusing screens are dim, and few have conveniences like

meters or motors to advance the film.

 

But that said, shooting with a TLR is a lot of fun and the cameras are lightweight. I love

my 1956 Minolta Autocord.

 

As a first step from a Nikon system, I'd go Pentax 645. Just my opinion.

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

TLR's are a lot different than SLR's. You need to adapt to using a waist-level finder where the image is reversed. So, you may want to try a Medium Format SLR first.

 

If, on the other hand, you normally shoot from a tripod and like a slower, methodical approach, the TLR differences won't matter much. And you will eventually adjust to the WL finder and be able to use it easily hand held.

 

Robert

 

Robert

[PatrickMP]

<p>I started shooting with a Mamiya C220 TLR. I <em>loved</em> that camera, and

only sold it (for parts) because it started to malfunction (too many rough nights in the

studio I'm afraid).

<p>Keep in mind that for MF there are three "major" formats: 6x4.5, 6x6 and 6x7 (all

centimeters). I would strongly recommend not going 6x4.5, because based on what else

is out there, you are really cutting yourself short (6x4.5 is the smallest MF negative on 120

film out there that I know of, so you aren't taking full advantage of the MF format). Some

people like the 6x6, some hate it, but you'd have to shoot with it to be sure. I moved on

to a Mamiya RB, but after shooting with it for a while realized I love the square more than

the rectangle.

<p>Someone mentioned that TLR's don't have motor winders, non-metering prisms, etc.,

but MF

shooters tend do more stuff "by hand". If you need fast metering prisms, motor drives,

etc., 35mm is still the way to go. That said, the TLR is a great way to start, and dirt cheap.

Mamiya C220/C330 TLR's (base model C220/C330, and I think there are also S and F

bodies) offer great performance, and importantly, interchangeable lenses. The C330 can

also change backs. If you want to go the SLR route (many people don't like the TLR), I

would recommend an RB over the 6x4.5 brethren (Mamiya 1000S, Pentax 645, Bronica

ETR, etc.). Dirt cheap, great system, great glass, and very expandible. There is also the

Bronica SQ (SQ-Ai, SQ-B?) which is 6x6, also a worthwhile camera, but I haven't had much

experience with them.

<p>And for the ultimate SLR, there is the Pentax 6x7. While I haven't used one, my entire

35mm system is Pentax and their glass is <em>excellent</em>. People swear by the

6x7. No interchangable backs, but from what I've heard, for the price of a Hasselblad back

you can buy a second Pentax 6x7 body. If you do a lot of slow work, be on the lookout for

models that have MLU (mirror lockup), as they have bad mirror slap (again, this is heresay

as I've never used one).

<p>If you do your own darkroom work, and your enlarger can't handle MF, get one that

goes to at least 6x7; this will allow you to print all the major MF formats without issue.

<p>Good luck!<br>Patrick

[pavelp]

I guess there basically two ways to enter the MF.

 

1) Figure out what exactly you plan to do and why you want to shoot MF and then buy a camera that will fit your needs and budget. There's much more variety in MF camera design than is in 35mm format and most likely you will end up with two or more very different cameras after a relatively short time. This forum is relatively good in answering question of the "I want to shoot closeups of my favorite cactus flower and print 11x14, what camera would be best?" type. Your question, on the other hand is much more generic so the answers may not converge easily to a easy to follow recommendation.

 

2) Or you may be just curious about MF (or want to break out from 35mm style of shooting (at least for a while)) and in that case you can hardly go wrong with a good TLR (stands for twin-lens-reflex) (Rollei, Minolta, Mamiya, Ricoh and possibly others). Many people come through this door and some will keep their first TLR forever (or even keep buying more and more until their spouse draws a YOU_SHALL_NOT_PASS line).

 

No matter what you do, make sure you will get a camera that is reliable and also budget some money for CLA (clean-lube-adjust). Nothing is worse than a tool that is out of whack and many used MF cameras did not see a good service for decades.

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

Sell yourself short with 645? I don't think so - the negative has 2.7X the area of a 35mm neg. And I easily print 16x20 (Haven't tried larger).

 

Besides, if you crop a 6x6 you get a 645!

 

Robert

[jon_martin2]

I'm with Pavel. You have to make some decisions about where you want to go with medium format before you can make decisions about equipment.

 

I shoot a Nikon SLR almost exclusively, but I have used Hasselblads and Rolleiflex TLRs. For me, personally, square negatives are awesome. I really enjoy 6x6. KEH is a source you should consider. If you are ready to commit some money, KEH is selling complete Hasselblad 500CMs (w/ back, waistlevel finder, and an 80mm f2.8 CF lens) for just over a grand (in excellent condition). If you have friends that use medium format cameras, use a favor and ask to borrow them. You'll get an idea of what you like and don't like. You'll get an idea of how you can use the advantages of the format.

 

Have a good one,

 

 

 

Jon

[catherineadams]

All the answers here are very helpful, especially the TLRs and a hand held

meter (for an affordable method). Yet, one of the most valuable things about

medium format is the opportunity to have multiple backs. These outfits are

probably more expensive at first, but I have loved the freedom this offers. I

moved to MF from a Nikon system as well. I thought the Nikon pictures were

wonderful until MF--my black and white has improved tremendously, so much

that I barely work in color anymore.

[pavelp]

<i>Besides, if you crop a 6x6 you get a 645!</i><br><br>

 

Not necessarily true. The great advantage of 6x6 format is that you can crop to any W:H ratio not just 60:45. Square format has some advantages that are worth exploring (I'm not going to go into this now because week does not pass on this forums without somebody rehashing this old argument, so there's a lot in the archives already).

[pavelp]

<i>Yet, one of the most valuable things about medium format is the opportunity to have multiple backs. </i><br><br>

 

Very true. However it can wait until later. I think the first things to discover in MF are the benefits of larger negatvie and different work pace/approach. <br><br>

 

But again, the ability to change the film magazines is fantastic.

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

Pavel - If you crop 6x6 to fit 8x10, you are really, really close to 6x4.5 (actually 6x4.8). Yo can, of course, crop differently.

 

I'm not that fond of square, particularly for landscapes or street scenes. So I ended up cropping anyway (that's why I sold my Autocord). And now I get a few extra shots per roll, and don't need to continually factor the crop into my compositions.

 

Other people love square and don't like to rotate the camera. It comes down to your personal preferences.

 

Robert

[J.W. Wall]

If you're just testing the waters and want a 6x6 SLR, the Bronica SQAi line is much less expensive than Hassy...of course, the Brons were discontinued a couple of years ago. Lots of inexpensive equipment on eBay and I've had good luck with keh.com. Jump in, the water's fine! Good luck to you.

[todd_k.]

Dont forget the Bronica GS-1. Lenses, prisms, speed grips and 645, 6x6, and 6x7 backs are all readily available on the second hand market.

[35mmdelux]

What is affordable for one is not affordable for another. You need to work out a budget. At one end you can pick up a Mamiya C33 w/ multiple lenses for dime on the dollar (camera plus 3 lenses $400 US). While at the other end how about a mint 503CX and a sweet 60mm Zeiss $1,000+.

 

Once your budget is worked out then you can hone in on a good deal.

[claudio farkasch]

thanks for all the answeres you gave me.

 

the buget is quite clear to me for a startinggear I'm able more willing to spend about 400U$

 

Advanteges and disadvantages are for every camera but what I need is a start

I didn't start with my nikon f4s I started with a fullyautomatic Minolta Dynax 300si.

 

I'm also considering to buy me a PentaconsixTL because of the price. Yesterday a pentacon was sold for 80U$ with lens ready to start.

 

 

 

so what do you think

[enigmaphotography]

I just bought my first MF, a Bronica ETRS 645. I'm enamored, completely. The only thing that I would have done differently is gone with a 6x6 instead of a 6x4.5.

[35mmdelux]

I'm not familiar w/ the PentaconsixTL so I can't comment on that particular camera. I can only say that you've been provided some really good info above. I wouldn't buy a camera simply on a "cheap" basis. Consider if the picture is worth taking and you invest your time & energy, then its worth taking right and at the best of your ability. Some of the cameras mentioned above, although on the lower expense level, rival even the most expensive depending on your shooting knowledge. Mamiya c22 c33, Yashicamat, Rollieflex 3.5 all great cameras.

 

Of course some would say to go for the $20 Diana or Holga. But again if its worth taking, why not do it to the best of your ability?