Canon 5D vs Used 1Ds for the price

[luis alvarez torres]

Hi, I've been searching to buy a full frame camera and I have two

candidates for almost the same price: 1. New canon 5D or: 2. An used

Canon 1Ds (not the Mark-II). Will the 5D give me better image

quality and less noise than the 1Ds? I know the benefits of a 1Ds

over the 5D but my concern is about image quality.

[denisgermain]

The "mileage" on the 1Ds might be an issue....

[terence_mahoney1]

5D=less noise. Above ISO 400, much less.

[kelvinphoto - arlington, t]

I was under some shoes as you are. I was looking for a backup camera and decide on a 1ds or 5d. I had a 1Ds and play with a 5D at store. here are my summaries

 

1ds PROs: is a 1d body and 1d sensor. AWB is accurate for outdoor.

1ds Cons: slow on start up and write speed and old technology, noise at 800iso and beyond but can be fix by neatimage to look like it was done at 400iso. AWB have green cast under indoor.

 

5d pros: fast and newer technology. good high iso performance

5d cons: AWB have orange cast under indoor. feel like 20D.

 

I would recommend 1d Mark II/N because of better AWB. If you need FF, I would recommend to wait for 1ds mark II price to fall or get it now if you have $$$ because of it AWB.

 

Since the AWB of both camera, 5d and 1ds, are bad, I am looking for another used 1d markII for my back up. I just don't want to waste time doing color correction.

 

I do shoot raw and use c1 pro to do raw conversion to resize the file in batch mode to jpeg, but not for color correcting. Whenever I try to do AWB on c1 pro on 1d mark II file, there is no change in WB.

[lovcom_photo]

Why is AWB issues such a deciding factor?!?

 

A pro should never rely so heavily on AWB...and if one shoots RAW, then you're going to have to do Post-Processing anyways, so why not deal with color correction at that time? I guess you don't want to "waste" 5 secods?

 

The 5D provides image quality that matches the 1DSM2 9 out of 10 shots. The 5D provides much better images then the old 1DSM1, and the 5D provides much less noise too, so forget about the 1DSM1...it's a non-starter.

 

For the $$, the 5D is awesome....with any camera NEVER take AWB seriously...it is almost always in need of tweeking and I found this to be true with ALL Canon bodies, and I've owned most of them, and used heavily the one's I didn't own.

 

And as for noise with the 1DS1M...if you think that using a 3rd party plug-in to eliminate the noise is always the answer, thing again....when the noise goes, often so does precious image detail, so it is always better to use the lowest noise camera you can get, and to only use the noise cleaning plug-ins as a last resort....expose to the right without clipping the highlights, and you'll always be able to recover the mid tones and most shadows too.

[luis alvarez torres]

So despite that it is a 1D series body, it still doesn't match with the newer 5d sensor. I tought that 1D's were a step ahead of the prosumer bodies.

[rdkirk]

So despite that it is a 1D series body, it still doesn't match with the newer 5d sensor. I tought that 1D's were a step ahead of the prosumer bodies.<<

 

Newer tech, newer tech, newer tech.

 

You can't expect even a 1D that's three generations old to still be superior to the latest camera only one step down. The 5D represents the lastest anti-noise algorithms. If you want better, expect it on the next 1D this Photokina.

[John Crowe]

Don't dismiss the IDs yet. I don't think the difference is as bad as painted here. I shoot my 10D at ISO 100 98% of the time and only go to higher ISO in an emergency. I suspect at ISO 100 or 200 the cameras would be very similar. You will have to do more research and see if you can get your hands on them to see how they handle and shoot. The 1Ds has professional build quality while the 5D does not. Many used 1Ds's are still in excellent condition since in many cases they were probably assigned back-up duty to the 1DsII. Good luck.

[ky2]

The 1Ds would run rings around the 5D in AF territory.

[andrew robertson]

I don't know if it would 'run rings' around the 5D. It might focus a bit faster or a bit more

accurately under just the right conditions, but my lowly 10D has AF that is fast and accurate

enough to shoot race cars, fighter jets, birds on the wing, you name it.

 

I was not floored at all by the AF on the 1D - it seemed to be negligibly better than the 10D.

[les]

"I shoot my 10D at ISO 100 98% of the time and only go to higher ISO in an emergency."

 

I am not trying to criticize - just a comment: to me, the advantage of a DSLR is the ability to use higher ISO. Most of digicams with a tiny sensor are not too bad at ISO 100. So, I am lugging around a big and heavy DSLR precisely because of that (and fast AF, and high frame rate etc., but that's beyond the scope here). I do not think that anyone should stick to ISO 100 after paying for a tool which can be used at higher settings.

 

Just my opinion and preference, YMMV.

[kelvinphoto - arlington, t]

Dan, I shoot RAW just to be extra careful for over and under expose, not for WB.

 

If you want to fix 600+ pictures after every wedding, then don't depend on AWB of the camera to do the work for you. For me I do depend on AWB of the camera and don't want to waste week or month to do post processing just to fix WB.

 

And FYI, do you do custom WB all the time when a lighting change? For me I can't because the videographer keep on switch on/off his video light in every few second. try to custom balance in that situation and you lost the memory shot. By the way, I have try to custom WB couple of time just to test my camerea AWB and guess what WB is better. The 1DmarkII AWB is better than it custom WB, so I stick to it all the time. Look at the AWB of 1dmarkII on my website, http://www.kelvinphoto.com. All pictures are taking by 1dmarkII on AWB mode.

 

If you never use a 1Ds or 5D in real life situation, then don't make your conclusion so soon. I always recommend my fellows to try it before by it. Why don't drop by a local camera and test it out.

[ben_rubinstein___mancheste]

Yaron, I've owned both and that just isn't true. As you haven't I wonder why you made that comment? In low light, and as confirmed by Chuck Westfall, the 5D will have slightly faster AF than the 1 series. I've noticed no difference at all in low light conditions EV6 and lower, especially when using the flash IR assist, and to be honest little difference from the 10D due to the 10D's larger sensor giving it an edge for locking on, i.e it doesn't have to be as accurate/precise. My comparison is using the same 24-70L lens.

 

No one has brought up the weather proofing yet though it won't be long! ;-) I've recently used my 5D (& grip/580ex/CP-E3) outdoors in driving rain at 2 weddings for over 20 minutes at a time and there wasn't a problem at all, wiped it off when I got back in (with a towel it was so wet!) and carried on shooting for 4-5 hours. I did a landscape shoot in January when I was shooting in light rain for 2 hours, also no problem. The camera has been banged around enough and still doesn't have a scratch. I find the comments about this camera and dust to be amusing in the extreme, it is far cleaner in both the viewfinder, mirror box and sensor than the 1Ds ever was. It's possible that I have an exemplary copy but even so...

 

Image quality wise, the 1Ds is noisier at iso 100 than even my 10D, iso 1600 on the 5D is comparible to iso 500 on the 1Ds and I'm not exaggarating. The 1Ds is extremely intolerant of underexposure at any iso, underexposure of even one stop will show banding in the blacks. The maximum useable iso on the 1Ds IMO was iso 640 though many say that 400 is pushing it. I am regularly shooting with the 5D at iso 800/1600 and the results are incredible. At a wedding a month ago my 580ex died, (canon replaced it), in the middle of an important part of the cermony. First time I've ever wished for an on board flash. I didn't have time to reach for my backup metz, or even to change iso. I wound down the lens to f2.8 and shot. The photo still needed a plus 4 stop hike in ACR and was shot at iso 400. It wasn't great but useable, just. A 1Ds image would have been unusable from 2 stops underexposed due to the banding. That camera really taught me to expose properly first time every time!

 

As far as resolution goes I can't say I've seen a noticeable difference other than that shown by the far cleaner files. The 5D probably has a slight edge but only very slightly and you need to really know how to sharpen to see it in print.

 

Other than that, the screen is light years ahead, the 1Ds screen was a disgrace on such an expensive camera, the time it takes for the image to pop up on screen, for RAW files, is 1 second not 3-4 seconds (I could do with faster but so could we all) after you've taken the photo and instantanous from the card and the large RAW buffer is a pleasure. I hated having to wait mid sequence for the 1Ds's buffer to clear. The RGB histogram is very useful, especially if like me you shoot people, facial tones are almost completely the red channel and you can get a more accurate picture of your exposure. The zooming feature is also far superior.

 

ETTL II flash is very useable once you learn how it thinks, I hated ETTL and had reverted to auto flash with a metz but, and I never though I'd ever say this, I now prefer the ETTL II to auto flash.

[ben_rubinstein___mancheste]

I knew I forgot something!

 

The AWB on the 1Ds is worse than awful from the moment you use flash. On the 5D, when getting assist from the 580/430ex (didn't realise what difference it made until I shot a wedding with the metz!) the white balance is scarily close to the readings I get when using my Whibal to the extent that I've gotten lazy in using the Whibal, especially when the light is changing fast.

 

Oh and the picture taken during driving rain at the 3rd to last wedding. The groom had proposed at this brige at night and was determined to have photos there, again at night. They got absolutely soacked but didn't care as all the formals and portraits were already done. I cared as I had to squelch around for 4 more hours through the wedding dinner and my coat hadn't covered my legs, but hey we don't get paid to complain!<div></div>

[photographicsafaris]

I thought it through thoroughly, then came to the conclusion that The 5d offers better

image quality. Thats what it is all about at the end of the day.

 

I swapped the 10D for the 5D and still use slide and B&W film.

I comprehensively disagree with anyone claiming that smaller sensors are better for

wildlife. The extra percieved reach, is an illusion, and tells in depth of field. I shot Birds,

Silhouettes and Surfers at sunrise and the dynamic range is simply incredible.

 

The 3 bugbears of the 5D are:

1: The drive rate,

2: Not having an option of flash exposure lock once you have set the AE lock button to AF

3: Those damn 6 extra autofocus points lock onto the foreground. I have found them to be

a thorough pain in the rear and disabled them.

 

The 5D is the best travel camera Canon has ever made. the 1ds is a better build, and

handling camera. the Autofocus system is more complete

 

The 5D's vignetting is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. no more so than

using a film camera.

 

Shooting my first wedding I was in awe at how versatile it is an just how much information

and detail it retains. I am not going to go into the whole High ISo performance benefits,

anyone who has pushed slide films to 1600 and developed them understands where

quality loss occurs, funilly no one on Photo.net goes into it! Needless to say that This

camera breaks many traditional rules in this arena

 

The file sizes are huge, I thoroughly recomend this camera for anyone seriously looking at

a film conversion or an upgrade from the 10D. Personally I still use film, but brought this

in order to get the advantages of a system whose quality will last a few years.

 

The Battery grip is a necessity though, Oh and you still need to buy high quality lenses,

more so than anything else.

[kenghor]

Currently I own a 1Ds.

What I really hate is the bulky size and weight.

 

What I really like the 1Ds over the 5D is the 45 auto focus point (for precise focusing with

large aperture without having to focus and recompose), use of split focus screen for

manual focus.

 

Do u think it is worth selling my 1Ds and get a new 5D? I'll have to top up about US$1400.

[andrew robertson]

I wouldn't sell it.