Beginner needs advise on his first lighting kit

[nels]

My brother shoots with 20D, and I am planning on buying for him his

first portable home-studio lighting kit as his Christmas present. He

owns Canon 580EX flash, but the results are lacking in punch and

don't have that "studio look" to them. Neither of us know anything

about studio lighting, and hence the question.

 

I understand that not having any previous lighting equipment, I need

to buy a complete "monolight kit". I did some research online and

see quite a lot of variety at all sorts of prices.

 

Not having a clue as to what these things mean, if I were to buy

something right now, it would be something like an Elinchrom or

Bowen or Hensel kit that includes two mono-lights with unbrellas,

stands, and stuff. These range in price from $1000 and up.

 

My budget is around $1200-$1500. The question is, I don't know what

the various specs for these kits mean, and what are the top criteria

I should look out for and get them right the first time as opposed

to realizing after the fact that I made a stupid mistake to save a

few bucks.

 

I know these are some very broad questions, but if someone can point

me in a direction where I can do some further research, I am willing

to spend the necessary time before making an informed decision. Many

of you must have been through this agony at some stage, and I am

hoping that those of you who were in my shoes not too long ago would

have some specific recommendations.

 

The "kit" would be used primarily at home, but it still needs to be

portable and lightweight enough to carry elsewhere.

 

Appreciate your input in advance.

[elaine marie]

Check out Alienbees.com .They sell great beginner packages. This is what I shoot in my studio and they are very portable.

[garry edwards]

Please take a look at this - it's a list of Lighting Themes which may provide useful info. If you click on the last one, an intro to studio lighting, it will hopefully answer at least some of your questions

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00BjHh

[jonathan_brewer1]

KEEP your money in your pocket until the 'fog clears', take your time, listen to everything, question what you've heard, and research this to 'death' and 'bit' by 'bit' this'll start becoming clear to you.

 

You've got a budget that will get you a decent 'base' for lighting, basically there are the considerations of how well made this gear is, it won't do you any good to buy something cheap(in a bad sense, this gear costs very little, and doesn't last, or the manufacturer won't honor their warranty),.................................. a units Power(and how you raise or lower that power to the needs of a shot), to where the unit is flexible to be used on a close-up portrait and then dialed up to effect a group shot,............................and the light modifiers that fit your unit, light modifiers are where you really need to get something decent, since photography is light(or the absence of it), many of these lights have adaptor so that you can use the midpriced softboxes of manufacturers like Chimera,...............and lastly the price of many of these units is a trade off, between price, and convenience, and features that make things like keeping your light ratios/keeping individual lights in the same power relationship to each other as your power up or down.

 

I suggest for a quick 'primer' to dial up the www.bhphotovideo.com site and dial up lighting, and check out the specs of these light units, and their cost, also the light modifiers, adaptors and so forth, you'll get a sense of brands that are 'dirt cheap', gear that's priced in the middle, and top of the line gear in terms of performance AND price,...................your budget will get you some decent gear, but I suggest you research as had been suggested above, all the threads on here about lighting gear, check out the differing opinions, some people offering opinions here are knowledgable about studio gear, some aren't, when in doubt, ask to see an example shot of how they used the gear they're talking about, but at all costs WAIT, that way you don't buy that seems great for a few less dollars, but makes you work yourself to death, buy something that will last, will make taking a shot easy in terms of metering, effecting light ratios/balancing your lights, get decent light stands, lights that are 'arc'-protected.

 

Rather than go into all these terms, I'll let other jump in here, but all of this is gone into in the greatest detail in prior threads, if you decide to research them.

 

Good luck and Happy Holidays.

 

www.imageandartifact.bz

[nels]

Garry,

 

Thanks for the fantastic write-ups and links. I read through the Intro and a couple other links so far, and learned a lot.

 

At first glance, the Alien Bees beginner package with two B400 lights (rated at 160 w/s each) with one see-through umbrella and one reflector umbrella seems to make sense. For a small home studio with not a lot of room to maneuver equipment, this may be the best choice.

 

Regarding tripping the flash with wire vs. wireless, what's the consensus? Also, regarding modifiers, is there anything else that I can consider besides what's available in this beginner's package?

 

I intend on taking my time to research more before making a decision, so if anyone has more specific input, please feel free to share. Thanks everyone.

[nels]

Another beginner's question:

 

Since my bro has Canon 580EX, can it be used in conjunction with these Alien Bees or similar type mono-lights? Any advantages or disadvantages to doing so?

[j_autey]

Since I only occasionally use studio lights I went with Alien Bees. My budget was about what yours is and I had used Normans, Lumedyne and Broncolor as well as Alien Bees before choosing Bees. If my budget was double what it was I would have probably gone with a different system. There not the best on the market, but for my needs they work great. After a couple of sessions with them noticed their slaves are not all that great, so I ordered the wired remote. No slave problems anymore. I'll be happy to answer any questions you have about the lights. Some people have remarked how the Bees light color isn't perfect, All I can say as that by my eyes they're as good as comperable normans, if not as powerfull.

[nels]

Thanks J Autey. Could you please elaborate on the following:

 

"After a couple of sessions with them noticed their slaves are not all that great, so I ordered the wired remote. No slave problems anymore."

 

Is this in reference to using 580EX as a master or something completely different?

[medina photography cherry]

Nels,

 

I use a 20D. I have one Alien Bee B800 and a cheap SP 920 as a slave. I will add more Alien bees as I can afford to do so. The Alien Bees (as most lights) have a photo sensor that will trigger when they see a flash( as long as the pc cord is not pluged in) The problem with using a 550/580 ex as a master is they have a pre-flash, which will set off the other lights before you expose he image. Now I am not sure, but I guess if you put the 550.580 on manual you could trip the other lights, but I find using that scenario to be useless since you really (I don't) want straight on flash anyway. As far as wireless or not, I just purchased pocket wizards to fire my Bee because the stupid pc cord keeps falling out of my camera..very annoying. It did not bother me as much before, but lately I have been more "studio" type lighting and I guess it is about that time.

I think for the money the Bee's are a good deal because they have a 5 stop range, their air cooled and their reasonable. I prefer softboxes to umbrellas.

If I had the money I would get a 3-4 light set up. 3 light- ALL B800, 2 heavy duty stands with the booms, 2 large, 2 small softboxs, 1 stand/ light with a set of grids.

4 lights same as above with the last light having a snoot. A perfect set up would have all lights on booms.

 

Good luck, hope your brother appreciates the gift. If not take it away and send to me:)

[steen holst]

Robert (or anyone else who has experience),

 

I noticed you said you'd get all AB800's. I'm about to order my first Alien Bee's, and I was going to pick up at least one AB1600 to make sure I had at least one really big light in case I have to do a large group. I'm just wondering if my mindset of "you can always turn down a big light" makes sense. Currently I have a simple JTL 160 which dials down to 1/8 (which is 20 W-S). If my math is correct, an AB1600 at 1/32 (which is 20 W-S) should the same at the low end, but give me another 2 stops at the high end. For any monolight, you can always add a sheet of cheap ND filter to reduce it even more if you need to.

 

So, does it make sense to have at least one light that's as big as you can get?

 

Thanks.

[garry edwards]

*So, does it make sense to have at least one light that's as big as you can get?*

 

Probably, but only if you need the power. Bear in mind that really powerful flashes (OK, the AB1600 doesn't really fall into that category) can't be dialled down to really low settings. I have an Elinchrom 6,000J light that only gets used very occasionally - sometimes I find it essential for my type of work but it could never be a first choice for even large portrait groups.

 

And remember too that simply moving the ISO setting off of the 100 mark will, in effect, produce more lighting power if needed - OK, there is obviously a quality tradeoff with higher ISO settings but the slight quality loss may be acceptable.

 

Nels - I would go for a radio trigger. Hard-wire synch is old technology now, it's inconvienient and unreliable. Perfectly adequate radio triggers are now available at very low cost.

[J.W. Wall]

Why not give him a gift certificate and let him choose?

[nels]

Garry,

 

What types of radio transmitter/receiver sets would you recommend that are reliable? Or should I go with the wireless stuff offered by the same vendor?

 

I suppose one needs a transmitter for the camera, and a receiver for each of the lights.

 

Also, is a hand-held meter recommended or does the 20D, when using RAW and built-in meter, work well enough to provide enough latitude for White Balance, perhaps using a grey card?

 

Thanks again for excellent tips so far. I find myself leaning toward the "DigiBee" package:

 

http://www.alienbees.com/packages.html

 

Any reservations?

[jonathan_brewer1]

'I noticed you said you'd get all AB800's. I'm about to order my first Alien Bee's, and I was going to pick up at least one AB1600 to make sure I had at least one really big light in case I have to do a large group. I'm just wondering if my mindset of "you can always turn down a big light" makes sense.'..........................When you're shooting a portrait and your light is 5 or 6 feet from the sitter, a light w/1600ws may seem like too much light, in fact shooting a close-up portrait in the above scenario may seem like overkill with a head putting out 800ws, but suppose the situation arises where you need to do a group shot, and you need from the foreground to the background in sharp focus, and you need F16, F22, and so forth.

 

Suppose you decide to do a shot in black & white, with a 25 red fiter, the filter factor for this red filter is 8, that's three stops, use this filter over your lens and it makes your 1600ws strobe a 200ws strobe,..................slap on a softbox or various other light mods on your head and you probably knocked down your your light a stop, again knocking down your 1600ws to 800ws.

 

There are going to be any number of considerations and situations, involving filtration, light mods, using a certain technique to get the shot, that use up power, it's not the idea of getting the powerful light you can get out of some arbitrary notion that bigger is better, the more power you have the more flexibility you have regarding any situation that comes up with depth of field, aperture/shutter manipulation as EV numbers, filtration, light mods, balancing daylight-flash fill.

 

If you are always going shoot the same thing, the same way, for the rest of your life, then ignore what I've said,...............a more realistic approach TO ME is considering that your photography is a growth process, a dynamic process, with each shoot presenting different problems, and a consideration that strobe gear that may seem to be too powerful for a head shot/close-up, may be pitifully underpowered when trying to keep folks in sharp focus regardless of whether they're 10 ft from the camera or 20 ft away, any number of things can cut down on the effective power of your strobes, when a particular shot comes up where you need a certain amount of power, and YOU DON'T HAVE IT,.........................what are you going to do? Rent? By the time you get through renting a more powerful light to do a shoot the lights your have can't handle, it would've been cheaper to get the more powerful light in the first place.

 

Sometimes spending more money at the beginning SAVES YOU MONEY later, and conversely trying to save money at the beginning can cost you at the back end, I'm a portrait photographer, that means primarily portraits, which I could do a number of w/my Vivitar 285 or my Armato portable strobes, but when I do a black $ white portrait, and I use a 25 red on the shot to accentuate a 'high key' effect, these lights are now inadequate, if instead shooting one sitter, I'm doing the same shot trying to keep a group in focus, I can ending up using/needing close max power on my WL unit or my profoto 1200ws pack.

 

Get the most power you can afford not just to have more power, but to afford you flexibility in any situation that WILL come up where you'll need that power. Steve I hopes this helps.

 

Good luck, and Happy Holidays

 

www.imageandartifact.bz

[garry edwards]

Nels,

 

Alien Bees don't have distributors in my country and very few people here seem to have bought them - I have no experience. They do seem to be popular in The States and to have a good reputation. I think it's probably fair to say that more experienced photographers probably care less about specific makes than newcomers and it's probably also fair to say that as this particular make is especially attractive to newcomers to studio lighting, not all of the people who recommend it so wholeheartedly may have experience of other makes - this does NOT constitute a warning against it, I'm simply pointing out that you'll have to make up your own mind.

 

Now to the points that I can help you with...

 

You need a transmitter and a receiver. The receiver fits to one light and when the light fires the slaves on any other lights respond and flash, so you only need one receiver. There are benefits to having one receiver for each light but you really don't need to do so. The 'top' Brand is probably Pocket Wizard but these are sophisticated and expensive and if all you want to do is fire your strobes in a small space then any other make should be fine.

 

As for metering, your camera meter works with ambient light only, not for flash. The standard answer is that you need a hand-held flash meter, but most experienced studio photographers have their digital cameras tethered to a laptop where they can view a large image on screen and get help from the histogram, and so are able to manage without a meter.

[nels]

Thanks, Garry.

 

I just checked out a Hensel Integra Pro Plus 1000 W/s kit at B&H that includes umbrellas, softbox, and all in one nice package. Plus, this kit includes built in wireless transmitter/receivers. I am very very tempted to go for it, though it makes me stretch my original budget by a few hundred bucks with shipping and all.

 

The light stands included with the kit are only 7.5 feet tall, but B&H said that they were designed to keep the kit portable. The stands should still be sturdy enough to hold the included softbox and other accessories.

 

I understand that Hensel is a reputable German brand and one can't go wrong with them. I like this package.

[j_autey]

Nels,

I'm refering to the LG4X, I should have included that in my orignal response. I would like to have the wireless remotes or a pocket wizard, but the LG4X served my needs just fine, and was with-in my budget.

[nels]

Being an impatient person with these things, I hate deliberating more than what's necessary.

 

I just went ahead and ordered the Hensel Integra Pro Plus kit from B&H that includes two 500 w/s lights and a bunch of accessories. I liked the brand reputation, the integrated wireless stuff, the softbox, umbrellas, stands, the whole thing. I am sure my bro would love it.

 

Thanks for all the assistance.