Starting from scratch choosing a brand new kit...

[antoniocuoco]

Hello all,

after thinking and thinking again about how to step in MF, I got the

conclusion that the decision worth a brand new system to carry with me

for the years to come.

1. I'm sure about this

2. I'm sure about the fact I want to shoot 6X6 BW handheld (most of

the times)

3. I'm shure about my budget BUT NOT about my new system.

4. my budget is 3000$...

 

I'm speaking about the Hasselblad 501CM kit with 80mm or Rollei 6001

Pro.

Starting from scratch I got the "white paper fear".

I'd like to know your thoughts since I have not particular needs, only

shoot good photos in BW handeld (portraits and street photography). I

don't care either about reliability @ extreme temperatures or

automatisms....

It's a difficult answer I know, but I have not the possibitity to rent

or try each of the two systems: I think only that a step in a serious

way to express oneself is worth a new camera...

[bob_the_builder1]

Hi, nice dilemma to face. If you do not need to change lenses and will be happy with a fixed

80mm lens I would suggest a Rollei TLR would be best for your intended usage. However, if

you are going to be adding lenses to your kit then it will be down to the two models you

have highlighted. The Rollei has a motorized film winder built in whereas the Hasselblad it is

extra. They are both fine cameras and weigh about the same for hand holding, with winders,

and neither is ideal as a hand held camera because of weight..... I would get a new TLR

myself.

[stevoi]

I use a Rolleiflex TLR for my street photography. I think it is the best MF camera for handheld street and portrait. The Rolleiflex is relative small, lightweight, quiet and well build.

 

Stefan

[paul_neuthaler]

My vote for a late model, 2.8F Rollei. You'll be very happy.

[Ed_Ingold]

Using a medium format camera hand-held will not produce any sharper results than a 35mm camera, just less grain. You also lose the speed and sublety you have with 35mm. You could do as well with a DSLR with regard to grain and sharpness. Why do you want to go medium-format? It sounds like an "acquisition syndrome" thing. If you use a tripod, fine-grained film and good technique, medium format really stands out. Otherwise, you are wasting your time and money.

[antoniocuoco]

Hi Edward, I use a Olympus C8080WZ 8MP most of times @ 50/70 ISO (noisless) setting. It's a really great camera but I'm not very satisfied with the digital results in terms of rendition of the greyscale and in terms of an excessive depth of field. I think to have a good technique, but If it's a matter of tripod I'll use one: it's a matter of results, not of acquisitions syndrome...

[stevoi]

Edward,

 

the quality relation between handheld 35mm to MF is the same like tripod 35mm to tripod MF. But there are more good reasons for a Rolleiflex for street. I like to look through the waistlevel finder, it is more secret. When people detect me they are more friendly too me and often they are talk with me about my old camera. I do not use a tripod and can handhold a 1/15 sec. without problems. But you are right that MF is slower and it is not easy to start with it on the street. I also use a little SLR and the "ideal camera" doesn't exist.

[chan yw]

Edward,

 

I agree with your point on sharpness. But one of the main draws of MF for me is not sharpness but the superb tonality the larger negative offers. That would be reason enough to get an MF kit, imho.

[bob_the_builder1]

Edward, I have been using a Rollei 2.8f handheld for some time now, results are much

sharper than anything I obtained from 35mm.... But resolution isn't the only reason to favor

MF over 35mm or digital, there are the issues of maximum enlargement size and dynamic

range to consider too. What is more, the Rollei TLRs had no mirror slap so there is less

vibration impairing image quality.

[dermot_conlan4]

No one here can tell you what will work for you but waht works for them hence

my mantra, RENT. You can rent the 501cm for a weekend and go and shoot

in the street. This will cost you around $50 and give you some idea in real

terms. It takes several years working with a body for it to become second

nature and remember that Oly does have AF and built in metering going to an

all manual system will take some getting used to.

[jim_mcbride]

The biggest "knock" on the Rollei SLR is the battery: unreliable, expensive, hard to find.

The modern Rolleiflex TLR is almost bulletproof and seems ideal for your stated needs.

The latest manual model Hasselblad also sounds good for your needs if interchangeable

lenses are a must. Used carefully, all three of these cameras will furnish images better

than the best 35mm film cameras. Digital is another question entirely.

[peter_evans4]

<p>$3000 is a load of money, and these ritzy Rolleiflexes don't come cheap. If you're interested in an expensive Rolleiflex, why not get a <a href="http://www.dantestella.com/technical/autocord.html" title="'Virtually unknown 6x6 twin lens reflex', sez Dante. Oh really?">Minolta Autocord</a> that's in good condition? It may be no match for a Rolleiflex -- I don't know; I've only shot a single roll with an Autocord and I've never used a Rolleiflex -- but it is very good and several important ways very similar. After you've used it for some time, you'll know if (a) it's just right for you (no further purchase necessary), (b) it's rightish for you but not quite good enough (cue for a Rolleiflex), or © it doesn't suit you at all (cue for a complete rethink).</p>

[bob_the_builder1]

Jim, have you actually used a Rolleiflex 6001? I have had several and never had a problem

with their rechargeable batteries, shooting in all conditions. I think you are simply

misinformed.

[Ed_Ingold]

I agree with comments about the extended tonality of medium-format B&W. 35mm doesn't even come close. This worked to my advantage for news work in the 60's.

 

I remain skeptical about hand-held sharpness over 35mm - I do both. The issue is not mirror-slap but camera shake. Any one who claims to get "sharp" pictures at 1/15 second should be saying "sharp enough", which may be true in some circumstances. In practice, 1/250 with an 80mm lens is closer to being sharp.

 

The Hasselblad 501cm is an outstanding camera - simple, compact and completely mechanical. There is an abundance of used equipment on the market, at very reasonable prices. For $3K, you could get an used body with a WLF, back, and two or three lenses - the 80, 50 and 150 make a powerful combination. I have a couple of Hasselblad bodies and several lenses, and use them extensively for landscapes and portraits.

 

The Rollei 6000 series cameras are bigger, more automated but battery-dependent. Used equipment is sparse. Rollei uses both Zeiss and Schneider lenses, which are comparable and have outstanding quality.

 

A Rollei TLR is compact, quiet, relatively inexpensive and capable of exquisitely sharp images. I have an E2 which I used extensively for newspaper work in the old days. The WLF is hard to use to follow action, and often too low to have a flattering point of view. The eye-level sports finder is much more useful, but composition is difficult. Having a fixed lens is a serious limitation - too short for portraits and too long for landscapes. I don't recall ever using a tripod, but then the largest picture was 3 columns wide.

 

I think using a medium-format camera for street photography borders on affectation. The last thing you want is to draw attention to yourself - as much for security as for capturing sponteneity. I think a Leica is ideal for this purpose. Even though I can use a DSLR much more effectively than m-f, the camera is large and often intrusive.

[kaiblanke]

Edward,

 

I do not agree with you concerning the Rolleiflexes: Both the 600X and the TLR's are very fine machines and I prefer to use them quite a bit over a Hasselblad, but I guess this is personal preference. Rollei had battery problems, but that was with the SLX series; any (new or used) 600X is way better in this point. Rollei equipment and support is at least here in Europe only a touch below the Hasselblad support, but more than enough for thousands of professional users.

 

But you were right with your Leica suggestion: A Leica M (or a cheaper Konica Hexar RF or Voigtlaender Bessa or maybe a MF rangefinder) would be a good alternative for street shooting and portraiture - in my eyes about the same as a Rolleiflex TLR. If you want street shooting, bear in mind that a Hassy (and to a lesser extent the Rollei SLR) have quite a bit of mirror slap, which makes the camera quite loud - something I do not like esp. for street shooting. Also a MF SLR is better put on a tripod than to use handheld.

 

I would take a small amount of your budget and get two things: A cheaper TLR like a Rolleicord, Autocord or Rolleiflex Automat or similar (about USD 150) and a 70's fixed lens rangefinder like a Canonet 17 QL III (about USD 50). If you do not like both, get a Hassy if you want a manual camera or the Rollei if you prefer an automated one, otherwise upgrade to a new Rollei TLR, a MF or Leica (or similar) rangefinder.

[pavelp]

Both of the systems you mention are SLRs with all the SLR advantages and disadvantages. If the handholdability is your major concern, you should think about whether you really need an SLR or not. If you cannot rent, buy a basic kit and if does not work for you, sell it (with MF prices being at the rock bottom, you can even get a small profit if you get lucky when buying and lucky again when selling).

 

Generally, rangefinder and TLRs allow for better handholdability (is that even a word?) because there's no moving mirror and cameras not as bulky. You do not say what you shoot, so it's difficult to provide more advice.

[bob_the_builder1]

Here are a couple of sites that host images taken with Rollies and Hassels:

 

http://cc3.ckitc.edu.tw/~photo/photoalbums.html

 

http://forum.xitek.com/showthread.php?threadid=216921

[todd_k.]

You should consider a used Mamiya 6.

[donald_brewster]

Handheld 6x6 B&W with one lens for portraits and street photos? Late model Rolleiflex all the way. Do you really need a "system"? Medium Format system SLRs like Hassy 501 and Rollei 6001 are certainly great, but are too heavy to effectively handhold IMHO (though many do so capably). But if you must have a large range of lens focal lengths then SLRs are the way to go. If you can live with the rangefinder's limitations, and want some ability for interchangeable lenses, the Mamiya 6 is a fine choice (the 50mm lens is wonderful). My two cents -- and you certainly don't need to spend the whole $3K whatever you choose.

[bob_the_builder1]

Rolleinar close up lenses are also excellent tools for portraint photograpy with a TLR.

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

I picked up a new Bronica RF645 and three lenses for very little money (1/2 of your budget). It's a very nice 645 camera. Not great for tight head shots, though.

 

Robert

[greg_jones1]

I own Hasselblad 503CW and later style lenses. I used to own Rolleiflex 6006. While both are superb instruments, if I was into street photography I would get auto exposure. That rules out the mechanical Hasselblad 500 series, you would have to go to the 200 series focal plane cameras (203FE is a Rolls Royce). Go with the Rollei 6008. It is a fast camera, to be sure. If you really have no qualms about budget, go with the AF version. That way you can get "in and out" with your street photography instead of taking meter readings and fiddling with focus.

[jim_mcbride]

To: Bob the Builder

 

I own/use the Rollei 6001 because I love the Zeiss lenses. I am willing to endure the

battery issues because I love the system so much. IMHO Rollei is superior to

Hassy, for me. I know others prefer Hassy because it works better for them. Horses for

courses. Maybe it is just me, but I find dealing with the rechargeable Rollei batteries to be

a colossal pain in the a$$. I don't consider myself a Rollei expert, but I am not

misinformed, either.

[gaius1]

Unless I am missing something, Rollei and Hasselblad both use Zeiss lenses (as does Contax in 645) - in fact it wouldn't surprise me if they were identical with just the mount changing. So lenses isn't really a reason to favour one over the other.

[vapparn]

As far as I know, Rollei belongs now to the same group of companies than Schneider. If you look at the latest Rollei lenses they are all Scheider-Kreuznach, like SuperAngulon 50mm AF and soon to be released Tele-Xenar 150mm AF. Rollei/Schneider experts can tell more details.