david_senesac Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Was wondering how in the field, others on our forum mechanically adjust their field camera rear standards so frames are horizontally level? I for one am very careful to expend effort on each shot to keep my rear standard horizontal. I expend much less effort on keeping the back to front perpendicular to vertical, so this question is about the former. Every view camera model and its groundglass is a bit different so I would expect answers to vary considerably. Many camera bodies have various bubble levels right in the structure and mine has three. However I've learned not to trust the levels and likewise never had much confidence years before when using 35mm cameras with spirit levels placed atop the pentaprisms. After figuring out where to set up my tripod, I usually begin by pointing the camera in the subject direction, leveling the bed, then adjusting the front standard shift to get the lens in the ballpark of where it ought to be. Then usual considerable focus work to have the front standard tilt or swing adjusted. At that point I am nearing the final stages of adjustment so this is where I tweak the horizontal leveling. Of course any such adjustment at this point may throw off things like where the frame was positioned, so tweaking is likely to be slight in order to not waste effort. To do so, I will remove my head from underneath the dark cloth and regain a sense of normality by looking out while standing in a comfortable stance at the scene. Moving my head and neck up and down a bit to get a feel for gravity vertical. Then I simply open up the dark cloth so I can see the groundglass vertical graticule lines, and tweak the bed level a bit from side to side as necessary for those lines to be perpendicular. Although I might readjust the ballhead slightly, such is problematic as more movement than intended can easily occur. Thus I tend to instead adjust one of my tripod legs slightly. I use a Gitzo G1325 so just loosen one of the side leg locks and by subtle feel alone allow it to move a fraction of a millimeter up or down. Then repeat the evaluation of the graticule lines until it looks good. Upon looking at my spirit levels, such adjustment is almost always consistent and I feel considerably more accurate. However a friend of mine, I often shoot with, is hopeless using his eyesight on the groundglass so just uses the spirit levels. I seem to have a keen sense of frame vertical and readily immediately notice such being off when looking into other's groundglasses. ...David www.davidsenesac.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noah Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Since many of my photographs contain buildings or other vertical things that I wish to keep vertical, getting the camera level is important. I start by setting up the tripod, I use a gitzo which has a spirit level on it. I get that as close to level as possible (according to the spirit level) before attaching the camera. After the camera is mounted to the head (I use a majestic geared head for my 10x8 camera), I check the spirit level on the base of my camera (a canham metal JMC). I then set up a preliminary composition using the groundglass. Once that is worked out, I use the spirit levels on th camera's back to get it level in both directions. I tend to trust the levels to some extent, but if the photograph has any verticals at all, I then compare them to the grid on my groundglass. Usually, that's the extent of it, and I fine tune the composition and focus and then shoot. If something doesn't seem right, I will come out from under the cloth and visually check out the camera to see if it looks level. I, too, have a good sense of vertical most of the time. If there are no real verticals in the frame, I generally just use the spirit levels. The key for me is using the geared head, which allows me to control one axis at a time and with great precision. I tried a ballhead when I first started shooting 10x8, and it just didn't work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Ingold Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 I use a Gitzo G-1345 with a G-1321 leveling head. After rough leveling using the legs, the G-1321 can be adjusted +/- 8 degrees and locked down. Once the base is level, you can pan the camera for composition without affecting its level. The camera itself is on a ball head (Arca B1), so the camera must be leveled. I use a bubble level resting on the top of the frame for my Speed Graphic. My Sinar monorail has crossed-levels in the rear standard. I use a level in the field too. It's hard to eyeball the level when there is no clear horizon. There's a lot of variation between trees too, but if the horizon is tilted, the effect is pretty obvious in printing when the aggregate orientation of trees is off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_whitehead1 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Wow! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 David, since you are writing about it in such detail, it would appear that you are not happy about the way in which you accomplish your leveling. Frankly, your technique sounds quite reasonable to me, considering that you don't trust your bubble levels. I would guess that most shooters (including me) just use the levels and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian_ellis16 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 If you're trying to keep parallel horizontal and vertical lines in the subject parallel in the photograph then levels alone won't work. Levels only tell you that the camera is level from front to back and side to side. They don't tell you that the camera is properly posititioned with respect to the subject. If you're photographing something like a window, door, building, etc. it isn't enough to have the camera level, it also has to be parallel to the subject. To determine that you have to align the subject lines with the grid lines in the ground glass. I don't think you can do critical architectural work with a ball head (or if you can it's going to take a whole lot of time and effort). For that type work a three-way pan tilt head is much better than a ball head and a geared head is best IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvp Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 I keep a 6 inch long level in my bag. It has dual bubbles so it works both for levelling the camera base and ensuring that the back is vertical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlfly1 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 I agree with Brian that a 3 way head with levels is easier. Having said that, I still use a B1. I've lost so many double bubble levels I could afford a digital auto-leveler, if one existed. Home Depot has a triangular 2 axis level that simply sits atop the standard you are leveling. It's close enough. At $3 or $4 vs $35 for the Hama, it's a steal. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn_kielty1 Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 I am not going to put a six inch level in my bag -- sorry. I have an uncorrected astigmatism -- I use a level -- or ask someone else. If you think it's level -- and the spirit level says it's not -- maybe you should consider the possibility that you are wrong -- especially if you look at a lot of other people photos and they are not level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidv1 Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 You could purchase a short plastic level to take along, or at least use to check the camera body levels at home. A spirit level is a simple device, so I'd be surprised if yours aren't accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_walton2 Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 You can pick up a 2 way level in a good hardware store that is only 2-3" long. Just lay it on your front standard, back standard and you really should be in the ball park. It has always worked perfectly for correcting X and Y axis if I need to get that critical. Usually, a view with a ground glass with a grid in it works well too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_senesac Posted November 16, 2005 Author Share Posted November 16, 2005 For you that are suggesting that I might be off and are offering advice, that is not the case haha. There are reasons why a spirit level on top of a pentaprism or embeded in the body of a camera might not be too accurate. But lets not digress into mechanical design here. My sense of levelness is quite accurate and yes I have a bunch of levels, can easily notice slight unlevelness, and already verified the ones in my camera body are not to be trusted. By the way, four of my brothers are carpenters. Also I am content about the way and speed at which I level my own camera. ...David www.davidsenesac.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_sampson Posted November 16, 2005 Share Posted November 16, 2005 Someone once asked Garry Winogrand why the horizons in his photographs were always tilted, and he replied "what tilt?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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