Lightest large Format?

[robert_b6]

Hello everyone

 

a few quick questions (and opinions) if you don't mind.

 

I currently have a Linhof Technika IV which, although i love, is a bit to heavy and bulky for

me. I am looking at something new (or new-ish) and preferebly a fair bit lighter.

 

So far ive come up with a Tachihara or a Shen Hao(which may be a bit on the heavy side).

Has anynoe got any other suggestions of relatively light LF cameras?

 

Lastly is anyone aware if a readyload back will fit on either of these cameras?

 

Thanks for your help

 

Rob

[christopher perez]

Depends upon how much movement you need and how much rigidity you require.

 

For ultra-lite, try a Gowland.

 

For new-ish and still v.lite, try a Toho (nice movements and decent bellows length).

 

For wood, with decent movement (not great, but maybe good enough), look for an Ikeda Anba. I carry this when traveling. At 2 3/4pounds its very light. Coupled to a 90Angulon, 150Germinar-W, and 200Nikkor-M, the kit weighs around 4 pounds (then add Readyload holder and a v.light tripod).

[james_noel1]

The Tachihara is about 1 1/2 lbs lighter with a useable bellows length of about 11".

The Shen-Hao weighs in right at 6 lbs, considerably less than the Technika. It has a useable bellows of about 15", interchangeable bellows, and many more movements than the Tachihara.

For me, the additional bellows length, interchangeable belllows, and movements of the Shen-Hao make it my choice. It all depends on what you want to do with the camera.

Jim

[bruce_watson1]

The lightest that I know of is the Toho. Here's a review:

 

http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/toho.htm

 

I've got one and I love it. It's very light, it's very rigid, it has full movements front and back, and it's easy to carry in a backpack for hiking. It can handle lenses from shorter than 80mm to about 300mm with ease. I also use a 360mm, but this takes a "top hat" lens board. I've carried it for many miles, up and down many mountains.

 

I modified mine by replacing the existing tripod interface with an Arca-Swiss quick release plate, and I had S. K. Grimes make a set of levels for the rear standard to make it easy to level and plumb the film plane. Finally, I added a Maxwell screen.

 

For weight, my modified Toho comes in at around 1.3 Kg, or something less that 3.0 lbs. Very hard to beat that.

 

And yes, it takes a readyload back.

[roger_hicks1]

Dear Rob,

 

Another Toho vote. I've been using Tohos for years and some Toho shots appear in my books -- take a look at www.rogerandfrances.com.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger

[troyammons]

Looong as usual

 

The lightest I know of are the Toho at around 3# and the Ikeda Anba 4x5 camera is a little less than 3 #, but I question just how easy a toho is to use and how stiff it really is. also I dont think the toho has a graflok back. One thing that is Nice about that is the latest red button Readyload film holder clips in.

 

To rotate the back on the toho I think you have to rotate the entire bellows. Also there was an early Calumet, endorsed by Gowland and based on his design and a Gowland camera, but they are barely usable due to a lot of combined movements. great if you only use tilt. I had one and they are really tiny. I think both of those were around 3#.

 

Also at around 3# can it take a beating ?? I doubt it. At 4-5# there are a lot more choices and thats where I ended up.

 

With my latest attempt at a lightweight setup, I decided to go for a Super graphic. The the last graflex camera made and is all metal and very tough. I just dissected mine, which is fairly easy and reversible if you are careful. Its well engineered.

 

If you remove all the electronics, and the rangefinder and every non essential part, and use a plastic GG in a cambo back you end up at about 3#-8 to 3#-10oz. I decided I like the rangefinder, but could care less about the electronics so I have mostly got a super without the electronics.

 

I am going to add 2 nylon straps later.

 

The reason I am using a cambo back is its a little lighter and it will take a Cambo reflex viewer. The super rangefinder parts weigh just 6 oz, and with that in my camera is just a hair over 4#. At 4 # you get a RF, rotating graflok back, full front movements, that can be extended with some work, and a drop bed and shoot from 90mm to 240mm. The one thing I do not like about it is that the focus rails do not extend inside the body, so to shoot a UW lens it takes a deep recessed board or you have to shoot off the non focus rails.

 

Also if you are interested in doing a little work you can convert it to a tilt back, which would cost about 2oz in alum.

 

Here is the back link.

 

http://www.wehmancamera.com/modification.htm

 

Here are the weights that I measured on my camera with no lens. this was not cutting out every bit of unused brackets etc.

 

The stock camera with batteries, no lens, stock back with flip out - 4# - 14oz

 

All below with a cambo back.

 

Almost totally Stripped, no RF and no electronics +- 3#-12oz

 

Camera with the rangefinder - 4#-2oz

 

Complete Camera Setup with G-Claron 150, rangefinder, quick frame, cambo back and cambo reflex viewer, with stock Cambo GG and fresnel -5# 4oz.

 

The pic below is as just described.

 

I also just bought a CF Velbon 530 tripod with a pan head that is rated at 25# and it weighs 4#

 

So if you add all that up, Camera (5.25#), tripod (4#), readyload holder (.75#), 40 readyloads (2#), and a small light meter (.5#)you end up at 12.5# which is about what your camera weighs.

 

I also have a wood/alum side handle with a release that comes in at .5#. Add 2 extra small lenses like a Ektar 100mm WF and a G-Claron 210 and you should be between 14 and 15#.

 

Also you end up with a camera that folds into a box, can take a beating, can take a reflex viewer, and you can shoot hand held etc etc.<div></div>

[brettdeacon]

Ebony makes a number of very lightweight field cameras. The lightest is the RW45, which weighs 1.7 kg (3.7lbs). For more information click here: http://www.ebonycamera.com/cam.html.

[bruce_watson1]

Troy,

 

The Toho is amoung the very lightest LF cameras available. It is remarkably stiff, and it's very easy to use. The only people who talk about how difficult it must be to rotate from horizontal to vertical are those who have never used one before. We Toho owners know this is not in any way a problem.

 

I've been lugging mine around for three years now, and it's taken three years of my beating it. It's very little worse for wear.

 

I think the main problem is that most people think that just because most view camera designs use a lot of mass to maintain stiffness that the Toho will be weak. In fact, there is little correlation between mass and stiffness. It's all in the design - in how you use the mass. And the Toho is a heck of a good design.

[eric_leppanen]

Actually, the lightest 4x5 Ebony is the RSW45, which is sold exclusively by Robert White in the U.K. (http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/ebony.htm#LabelRSW45). It weighs 1.5 kg (3.3 lbs), and is an excellent wide-to-normal field camera (it has essentially a permanently installed pleated wide angle bellows, which allows wide-angle lenses to be used with extreme rise or tilt). It is a non-folding field camera, and is faster to set up and tear down than either a folding camera or a monorail such as the Toho. However, the Toho FC-45X mentioned above is a more general-purpose field camera, perhaps not as flexible at the short end (although the eccentric lens panel does help) but has much more extension at the long end, and supports far more movements (the Ebony supports only front rise/fall/tilt).

[troyammons]

To: Bruce Watson

 

I actually almost bought a Toho a while back. Nice to hear you like it and for a rail camera that is so versitile, it would be the lightweight rail camera winner. If I ever do decide to go for a superlight rail camera that will be it.

 

BTW, what is that thing made of. To be that light it must be magnesium/aluminum and titanium

 

I myself tend to be on the cheap side, and at the time started heading towards 8x10. I shot quite a few rail cameras including a Sinar, cambo and a gowland superlight. I decided to go back to a Super, just because I like the convenience of a folder and I wanted a rangefinder camara that was tough and light. Also I wanted a real rotating back and something I could hook a reflex viewer to.

 

I share this back shown in the photo with my Cambo rail camera.

[goemon]

The Bender kit cameras are plenty light and should accept a readyload, but they're time consuming to build and there are some questions about rigidity (although to be perfectly honest I've not had any trouble with mine that could not be attributed to having a bellows camera in high winds in the first place). I like mine, and it's nice to know that if it breaks I can fix it myself, but I doubt I would do it again.

[pvp]

I have a Tachihara, which I like very much. IINM, it is the lightest field camera in production, or very nearly so. It will supposedly focus a 300 mm lens but I can't vouch for that as my longest is 10" (and weighs almost as much as the camera.)

 

I use a Polaroid back with no problems, and also a Calumet roll film holder.

[robert_b6]

Thanks for your help everyone, i think i'll look at the Tachihara, Ebony or Wista as i would

favour a field over a monorail.

 

Thanks again

 

Rob

[Glenn McCreery]

My solution to your dilema was to remove the rangefinder, cam and cam linkage from my Technika III version V. This was not a difficult job. I then covered the hole where the rangefinder was formerly located with a thin piece of black leather obtained from an old purse. The resulting camera weighs about five pounds, which I find quite reasonable for carrying in a backpack on hikes. I would not want to sacrifice the Linhof's precision and versatility in order to save a pound of weight that can be saved elsewhere (one fewer lens, carbon fiber tripod, one fewer sandwitch, etc.). When I really want to go light, for say cross-country skiing, I carry my Fuji GS645s medium format rangefinder camera.

[jimsimmons]

Oatmeal box pinhole cam with preloaded 4x5 film. I reckon you could carry about a dozen of them at less than the weight of the Toho. A bit bulky perhaps? And of course no need to carry additional lenses.

[peter lewitt]

Troy

 

Thanks for the information on your Super Graphic outfit.

 

How are you using the cambo back? Does the groundglass panel simply

replace the Super Graphic panel?

 

Also, how are you working the rangefinder with modern lenses, 150 and 210

G Clarons? Did you have to make custom cams?

 

I've been trying to work out a simple, light super graphic setup to keep in the

car. This is quite helpful.

 

Thanks

 

Peter

[troyammons]

Thanks for the information on your Super Graphic outfit.

 

Sure. As you can tell I really like this camera.

 

How are you using the cambo back?

Does the groundglass panel simply replace the Super Graphic panel?

 

the Super GG back with the flip out screen pops right out via the graflok back and the cambo back just clips on. All 3 are in sync. that is the Cambo, super and RF all are focused exactly the same on my camera. The one thing I noticed is the framing of the cambo back is a tad to one side, but I have not micro measured it yet. Its a small distance like maybe 1/16 or 1/8"

 

Also, how are you working the rangefinder with modern lenses, 150 and 210 G Clarons?

 

My camera came with a 150 Schneider xenar Lens (very sharp), a 150 cam for that lens and 3 more cams. I also got a 90, 190, and a 250 cam. I have not verified that the G-Claron 150 is in sync yet with the 150 Schneider cam that came on the camera.

 

As far as the 210, I sold it unfortunately, but I do have a 240mm G-Claron. I talked to jim at mpex and he said that i should try the 250 cam with the 240mm G-claron lens. Have not done that either.

 

Unfortunately now I have decided to change my lens setup to a 75 (will have to shoot it in the body or on a recessed board), and a 105 and a 135 or 150.

 

I dont have a 105 or 135 cam.

 

Since I already have a 190 cam and also like to shoot 8x10 I might end up going for a Kodak 190mm wide field ektar.

 

Did you have to make custom cams?

 

I have not yet, but I am thinking I might start making a few. They are hard to find and I have a milling machine.

 

I've been trying to work out a simple, light super graphic setup to keep in the car. This is quite helpful.

 

It would be a good one to use as long as you did not keep it in a hot trunk. You could get grease dispersal on the aperture blades if it gets too hot. I learned the hard way once.

 

At any rate folded up its small and easy to grab on the way out the door.

[brian_ellis16]

I own a Master Technika and I too have occasionally wanted something lighter. A couple weeks ago I saw a Wisner Pocket Expedition (around 3 1/2 - 4 lbs) for sale so I tried it in my backpack to see what difference the lighter camera would make. It made almost none. That may not be universally true, I carry about 10 glass filters and six lenses (though five of the lenses are small and light) but it's something to think about. When your pack and everything else except the camera weigh maybe 12-15 pounds the difference between a 6 lb camea and a 4lb camera doesn't mean very much.

[bruce_watson1]

Troy,

 

The Toho looks to be standard old "aircraft" aluminium. If I were a betting man, I say 6061-t6 probably. Why? It's nice and stiff, machines well, extrudes well, and is nice and common (that is, cheap and easy to buy).

 

Robert,

 

The Toho *is* a field camera. It's a field monorail. It's explicitly designed to be light and take up as little space as possible for easy portability. It doesn't have to be made of wood, or fold up into it's own clam-shell to be a field camera. But the other cameras will work for you too. As long as you don't mind the extra weight ;-)

 

Oh, wait. That's what this thread was about...

[lars ake vinberg]

I'd recommend that you take a look at Ebony SW23 and SW45 cameras.

[robert_b6]

After alot of reading, comparing and looking at photos I went for a Horseman Woodman

field in the end (the Linhof's on eBay!) - Ill let you know how i get on.

 

Thanks

 

Rob

[mikestacey]

I have a Horseman Woodman and am very pleased with it. It is very light, probably not built to last forever but I have had no problems with it being flimsy on the tripod and subject to movement or whatever. The camera itself is much lighter than your average SLR, vene with a lens attached it is probably around the same weight as an SLR although I haven't actually weighed it.

[mike ortega]

Corona 4x5 3.5 lbs w/o lens. Get a photog vest to carry your gear. these older cameras will last forever as long as your bellows is good at least. But for sturdy 4x5 use the crown graphics. remember these were all hand held!