Switching from Canon to Leica

[jeff_plomley1]

This is my first post on this forum, so please go gentle.

 

I have been shooting with two EOS 1v's now for about 4 years, and with Nikon 11 years

before that. The reason I switched to Canon was to take advantage of IS in their heavy

artillery. No regrets in this decision whatsoever, and the 1v is the best film body I have

ever used. They are truly indestructible. However, 50mm and below, Canon starts to fall

apart for my requirements. Hence, the consideration in switching to Leica for those focal

lengths where Canon seems to struggle the most. So here are my questions:

 

1. What, if any, significant differences are there between the R8 and R9?

 

2. What disadvantages are there in using R-lenses that do not have ROM contacts?

 

3. How is MLU engaged on the R8/R9. Is it mechanical or electronic?

 

4. I shoot only transparency film, and routinely bracket on my EOS 1v in +/- 0.3 stops.

90% of the time I am in manual mode. I noticed on the R8/R9 that only half stop

increments are possible in M-mode. To me, this seems like it could be a problem for

critical exposure.

 

5. I love zooms for landscapes as I'm often shooting from precarious positions and so

refining composition by moving is not always an option. I'm thinking of the 21-35 and

35-70 Leica optics as my first choice, but admittedly they are a bit dimmer wide open than

my Canon 2.8 zooms. My fear is how well will I be able to focus these slower lenses using

an R8/R9 with the grid screen. Is the viewfinder adequately bright enough to compensate

for the light loss in these somewhat slower zooms? Optically, how do they compare to the

Leica primes. Certainly in the Canon and Nikon line-up, the zooms have reached the point

where they are equivalent to their prime counterparts.

 

6. How well selaed are the R8/R9's as well as the optics? I tend to put myself into some

rather nasty environments.

 

6. Recommendations for reputable dealers selling used Leica equipment.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[robweatherburn]

Jeff - can't help you at all with any of your questions - but have to say how much I admire your photo of the river....

 

Rob

[andrew1]

Jeff- the real reason to look at Leica, especially for wide angles, is the M series, not

the R. Sure, the R glass is good, but the surety of the rangefinder focusing system

and the simpler lens designs for wides are the real selling points here. No such thing

as zooms in this world, but use an M camera and a wide angle lens of your prefered

focal length- I'd suggest in that 21 to 35mm range- and see what you think. You will

find it's much easier and faster to focus acurately, but that with many lenses you need

a separate viewfinder. This is not as much of a liability as it may sound at first, but

you should try it out to see how it siuts you. Otherwise, if you still have to have SLR

shooting, stick to your Canons.

[nels]

If superior wides are what you need, get an adapter for Zeiss to Canon mount, and get the Zeiss 21mm T* Distagon - the holy grail for wides (good luck finding one). Or else, get an adapter for Leica to Canon. That way, you get to still use your superior Canon Tele zooms with IS, and have the best of both worlds.

[stuart_richardson]

As someone who uses both systems, I can confidently say that both M and R systems are

excellent, and there is no difference in the quality of the lenses. Individual lenses might be

better in the R or M system, but on the whole they are equal. Now, for some of your

questions: Auto bracketing is in 1/2 stops and whole stops, if you need 1/3rd stops, you

will have to do it manually. The R9's metering system is excellent, however, and used with

care most every exposure is spot on. The R9 viewfinder is definitely bright enough to

focus the zoom lenses. Leica zooms lenses are extraordinarily good. The 21-35 and

35-70/4 are both very well regarded and perform similarly to the prime lenses. Though

extremely expensive, the 15mm and 19mm lenses are absolutely fantastic. You realize

that you can use most of these lenses on your Canon with a simple adapter? Albeit with

stopped down metering. I recommend the adapter from fotodiox. In any case, as for

weather sealing, this is a different story. The R9 and lenses do not have specific weather

sealing like the EOS-1 series cameras. They are not going to fall apart when it starts

drizzling, but if the weather is bad, you probably need to get a foul weather setup to cover

the camera and lens for shooting. The best dealer I am aware of is Tony Rose at Popflash

photo. The prices are superb, and you will get personal service. www.popflash.com

[stuart_richardson]

Oh, and mirror lockup is quite simple. There is a little lever on the front right side of the

camera (facing it), you just push it to the up arrow, and the next time you press the shutter it

will pre-release the mirror and stop down the aperture. Very simple and effective.

[nemeng]

Keep in mind some Leica R wides protrude into the camera body. When mounted onto EOS full-frame bodies (1DSMkII, 5D, 1V etc.) it's enough to impede the movement of the SLR mirror.<p>

 

Easy enough to work around - get a tech. to shave the mirror bottom or lens rear - but it's a gotcha.<p>

 

<a href="http://www.nemeng.com/leica/002f.shtml">

http://www.nemeng.com/leica/002f.shtml</a>

[billsr]

Jeff I'd agree with others who suggest M Leica and Zeiss 28,25,and 21mm T lens in M mount. Focusing is very fast and the new Zeiss lenses have 1/3 f stop increments. It's better to stick with your SLRs for long lenses. Try before you buy. IMHO buying at online sites is a crapshoot, beware! For used gear, try Photo Village (Rich Pinto) or Tamarkin to mention a few of many. Best regards,Bill

[Troll]

Consider a Leica R to EOS adapter. Is there a problem with the Canon f:1.4/35mm?

[karl kost]

Keep your Canon body and use an adaptor to use Leica lenses on the Canon body. The R8

is a fragile camera and has some, in my opinion, design flaws. My R8 will not meter

correctly after using it in very light drizzle for a while. My Nikons and Contaxes never had

this problem. After drying out, it works fine again. There is no electronic cable release

unless you also buy the motor drive. With long exposures and especially with long lenses,

camera shake from the mechanical cable release results in consistently soft images. I have

tried to solve this problem by locking up the mirror and using the 12 s time delay but

those self-timer buttons in the back are a real nuissance. And the mirror flips back down

after every exposure. It would be better to have a separate lever to keep the mirror up for

as many exposures as you want. The lever to select exposure mode as well as the

bracketing lever are very flimsy. (Dials are much easier to use for bracketing than levers.)

On the plus side, the viewfinder is very bright and the lenses are great. I also use wide

angles a lot and have used the Nikon 20mm, Contax 18mm and Leica 19mm. The Leica

19mm is by far the best of the three. The only problem is filtering this lens. It does not

have filter threads. I had to modify the lens shade to allow me to use Lee filter holders.

[guy_mancuso]

Jeff there simply is nothing better than leica optics PERIOD and anyone tells you any different than they never owned them. Been there done that with Canon . The R9 is a great camera , metering is extremely accurate , focusing is big bright and designed for manual focusing. the 21-35 is a great zoom lens from about 23mm up just steller and rivals some of the primes. the 35-70 F4 is a great general purpose lens , very good but if want the best there than the 28-90 is going to be better . the 15 , 19 , 28 elmarit are pretty much untouchable , you can throw the Zeiss 21mm in there also but won't fit a R9. The 180 2.8 apo is one of the best around . the 100 macro is rated by some the sharpest lens in the 35mm world , i won't argue it for a second. the 90 apo is also outstanding. honestly there is not many dogs in this house but they are not cheap but they will last a lifetime. I have a complete leica R system with 2 DMR's, just try to get this out of my dead cold hands . I owned the whole canon system and there are a couple of gems in there but find a wide that is better than zeiss or leica is like pulling teeth with pliers. Just not there but the 35 1.4, 85 1.2 ,135mm and some of the long boys that are very good but if wide is what you want look elsewhere it just is that simple , I have owned, tested, bought or sold all of them.Final conclusion after 4 years of trying, Leica and the canon boys won't like a word i just said but i call it as i have been there. also don't want to take anything away from the M's but i won't comment on stuff i have not owned but they sure look awesome.

[john_spiers]

Are you really going to lug around two different systems, just on the off chance you might need a wide-angle?

[brunom]

Jeff

 

I use both M and R systems and will confirn that they are both excellent, and looked at as systems, I believe are the best.

 

You asked specific questions so I will answer those points only:

 

1] In reality not much. R9 is lighter and has other minor differences [should have been called the R8.2] I have an R8 and didn't feel it worth changing - but buying from scratch I'd go for an R9.

 

2] Once again, in reality very litle.

 

3] There is a small lever under the R8/9 logo. This is moved toward the end of the camera and when you gently fire the shutter release the mirror lifts and the aperture closes down but the shutters does not fire until the release if pressed normally again. Not sure if it's mechanical or electric.

 

4] The R8/9 exposure system is very accurate and I don't think your concerns should cause ant problems. Film speed could be used to get what you want.

 

5] I have the 2 zooms you mention and they are great. I've never had any problems with viewfinder brightness, which is excellent. The 35/70 is a really great zoom with a macro mode [down to 1:2.6] with almost no distortion at 70mm and zero at 50mm.

 

6] I would agree that they are not as ultimately well sealed as the Canons, but a little bit of common sense will get around that.

 

7] I don't know where you are so can't really comment.

 

If you care about photographic images you will not be disappointed with the Leica R system.

 

Bruno

[john_jovic]

Jeff

 

The 1v is almost perfect, why abandon it when certain leica lenses can be used on it with adapters. I have 2 1v's, an R8 and R9. My only real complaint with the 1v's is that you have to look at the display on the top of the camera for certain functions, ie metering mode, whilst you don't with the R8/9. The 1v's are also set to under expose by 2/3 of a stop so you'll probaby think the Leica is overexposing if you are used to the Canon. I dislike the metering field of view on the Leica, it's not narrow enough to be a spot meter, the spot meter on the 1v is far better.

 

The R8/9 are for all intents and purposes identical. The R9 has a metering mode dial locking button which I do appreciate and it probably has some of the R8 bugs ironed out too. I love the arathnacite (or how ever you spell it) colour, the dark one. I haven't had any problems with my R8 so I'm very happy with it.

 

The R8/9 have the smoothest shutter release of possibly any camera, allowing lower shutter speeds to be used. The mirror lock up is very easy and effective to use, contrary to the other comments made about it. I used an r8, constantly using mirror lock up, every day for about 3 or 4 years, no problem at all. There is a 2 second delay which is easy to set so once you press the shutter release the mirror pops up, 2 seconds later the shutter opens.

 

One interesting difference between the 1v and R8/9 is the base plate where you screw the sucker to a tripod head. The R8/9 is ROCK SOLID, the 1v is relatively flimsy and can not be tightened as firmly. It's OK, but you can feel the difference when you go from the R8 to the 1v.

 

The focusing screen on the R8/9 is better than the 1v, you'll have no trouble with wide angle lenses on it.

 

The dials on the 1v operate in the oppostie direction to the R8. Because I went from an R8/9 to the 1v, I've used the Canon software to flip the direction of the dials so now the cameras are effectively identical to use, you can't do it the other way and change the direction the R8/9 dials work!

 

JJ

[jim r]

I shoot with Canon and Leica M. I have to agree with Andrew, a range finder is the way to go in 135, MLU becomes moot.

[albert knapp md]

I have been using both the R and M series for many years and welcome you to the zany world of Leica. I don't want to be redundant but the major advantage to Leica lies in the superiority of the optics. If I were Canon or Nikon, I would be trying to buy Zeiss and Leica before Panansonic and Sony do... It is that simple.

Anyway, the bodies (R8 & R9) are solid in many respects. They are not sealed the way the EOS are. They are beautifully made and are exceptionally accurate exposure-wise. They are bereft of all the bells and whistles you have become accustomed to but in return you get to use your..brain! You also develop a certain pride in knowing that YOU actually thought through the problems inherent with the picture. Nice sense of achievement!

Q1. Minimal differences... go with a letter version R8 or a new R9. The original R8 had electronic problems that were fixed.

Q2. If you are shooting with a flash in ttl, rom is useful. otherwise no great advantage.

Q3. MLU is electronic I think and is very very useful I use it all the time.

Q4. I use transparency as well and there is no problem. Teh lightmeter is stunningly accurate in all three modes.

Q5. Fear not, I have the 28-90 and the 70-180. They are both amazing lenses and you will soon see that they are in the legendary category. The bright viewfinder makes up for the partial loss in the 28-90 but you won't even notice it. The 70-180 is a personal favorite of mine and it is a bit heavy but once you get used to it, you will never leave it behind. I use a Kirk fast release with ARCA... makes life alot easier.

Q6. Not as well as Canon but use your common sense. They aren't exactly flimsy and porous and I have never had a problem with them since I started with Leica in 1998.

Q7. I agree with Rich Pinto here in New York.

One other point: if you want to delve into digital, as I am now doing, the Leica system offers an interchangeable back. I am presently learning photoshop and will soon take my DMR out for a spin....<div></div>

[albert knapp md]

THAT IS TEMPLE OF POSEIDON...

[terence_mahoney1]

Specifically, which Leica wide-angles are you considering? If it is the 15mm aspherical or the latest 19mm then perhaps you might find them better performers than their Canon equivalents, assuming your budget permits you to consider them. Otherwise you would need to have an overly-active imagination or a brand-fetish to make a sweeping generalisation that Leica R optics are superior to Canon. If you can find a second-hand stockist with samples of the lenses you desire, and any R body in working condition, you might at least give that a go before committing vast sums.

[karl_georg_wolf]

> Albert Knapp

 

thx for adding this wonderful picture to your post. Really stunning colours in your photo, taken right into the sun! Great shot.

 

Best regards

[joseph_barbano]

First, ignore any advice given on this forum by those owners who do not own both R and M series. This forum is so biased toward M series; I've owned both for many years and the optics and durability of the cameras and lenses is about equal. Second, don't get sucked into this nonsense that the only good R series are the "manual" R's e.g. SL, R6, and R6.2. Also not true, as I own both manual and auto R's and the autos offer more features.

 

That said, I think you will be pelased with either the R8 or R9. The R8s can be ahd for a good price used, but look for the higher serials if you go for one. The R8 and R9 are almost identical except for a couple of very minor features. The R8 will cost you about $1k, the R9 about $2K. YOu'll appreciate the viewfinder on the R8/9. It's bright een with slower lenses it seems.

 

I've taken my R8's all over the world, Africa, S. America, India, Middle East, etc. and never had a problem. I also shoot slides exclusively and critical exposure is never a factor. Good spot meter. As far a motor drives/winder, I have no experience but have read that the R8 had problems withese when they first were available.

 

Good dealers, I"d say Sam Shohan at Classic Camera. I've had good luck with Tamarkin. Never dealt with Photo Village but Pinto has a good rep.

 

Good luck.

[bart feliciano]

Landscapes seem to be about color and resolution.

 

Is there a reason you wouldn't consider medium or large format? It'd be a significant improvement over either Canon or Leica. And cheaper than both nowadays...

[jeff_plomley1]

Thanks to all whom took the time to respond. The last post is something I have wrestled

with for some time given the rather drastic decline in medium format prices for used bits

of kit. However, I really have trained my eye to work with the aspect ratio of 35 mm and

prefer something "quick and nimble" to travel with. I used to have a Mamiya RB-67 Pro S,

and although the image quality was outstanding, I missed being able to project those

chromes and there were many image taking opportunities I had to sacrifice due to the

weight of the system. Wading into a raging river with water up to your chest or into a

soft-bottomed bog were just areas medium format is not meant to go. So, I rationalized

why not get the best available in 35 mm. I have a Leica Pradovit RT-m with the 90mm/2.5

SuperColor Plan Pro lens, and to be honest, this is what hooked me on Leica quality. My

piers who are all hyped on shooting digital leave my home after seeing images projected

on this system asking themselves if they made the right decision dropping film.

[john_jovic]

Jeff

 

Borrow some leica gear, but good stuff. I trust you will see a significant difference in image quality, considering you are projecting slides. There are great and ordinary leica lenses, so choose carefully, many of the forum members here can help. You will never look back.

 

JJ

[feli]

>I have been shooting with two EOS 1v's now for about 4 years, and with Nikon 11 years

>before that.

 

Love the 1v.

 

 

1. What, if any, significant differences are there between the R8 and R9?

 

The differences are rather minimal.

 

R9: 100g lighter, additional LCD film-counter on the top-plate and has added support for

HSS flash via a SCA-3502M3 adapter. There is also a push-button lock for the exposure

mode dial. They should have called it the 8.1

 

Look here.

 

http://www.imx.nl/photosite/leica/rseries/r9.html

http://www.nemeng.com/leica/index.shtml

 

 

2. What disadvantages are there in using R-lenses that do not have ROM contacts?

 

http://www.nemeng.com/leica/001c.shtml

 

 

5. I love zooms for landscapes as I'm often shooting from precarious positions and so

refining composition by moving is not always an option. I'm thinking of the 21-35 and

35-70 Leica optics as my first choice, but admittedly they are a bit dimmer wide open than

my Canon 2.8 zooms. My fear is how well will I be able to focus these slower lenses using

an R8/R9 with the grid screen. Is the viewfinder adequately bright enough to compensate

for the light loss in these somewhat slower zooms? Optically, how do they compare to the

Leica primes.

 

MODERN Leica zooms are extremely good and often equal to the equivalent Leica glass.

You are not going to find a better zoom than the 2.8/70-180mm. One big advantage that

Leica zooms have is that they are manual focus and thus can be built to much higher

tolerances than auto-focus lenses. You will not see de-centering problems in Leica lenses.

The primes are exceptional. People will tell you there is no difference between Leica glass

and other brands. I shoot Leica R, Leica M and Canon and I can see a difference, especially

wide open. You get what you pay for. I don't expect a $300 plastic Canon 28mm to

perform as good as a $2500 Leica 28.

 

If you are interested in wideangle primes also look at the M-series. Amazing stuff. I have

the 1.4/35 Summilux-ASPH and it's the best lens I have ever used bar none. 16x20 prints

are stunning.

 

The viewfinder in the R8/R9/R6.2 is a solid stop brighter than my Canon 1v. You will be

surprised the first time you look through one.

 

>Certainly in the Canon and Nikon line-up, the zooms have reached the point where they

>are equivalent to their prime counterparts.

 

I still give the primes the edge..., but then again I agree with your opinion that below

35mm the Canon/Nikon primes aren't the best.

 

 

 

>6. How well sealed are the R8/R9's as well as the optics? I tend to put myself into some

>rather nasty environments.

 

I've used my 2/50-R and 2.8/180 in some pretty dusty and damp locations without a

problem. I don't have a R8/R9, but instead a R6.2 and SL. Neither is heavily sealed, so I

use a rain cover when needed. This is why I got the Canon 1v...

 

 

 

>6. Recommendations for reputable dealers selling used Leica equipment.

 

www.photovillage.com

www.keh.com

 

Cheers

 

feli

[feli]

Almost forgot...

 

You can use many of the Leica-R lenses on Canon EOS camera. But beware that certain lenses

have a clearance issue with the mirror on certain EOS bodies. There is plenty of information

about this on the net. Sometimes the problem can be solved with a little Dremel work...

 

 

feli